Colin Cowherd ridicules the idea that Aaron Rodgers is comparable to Tom Brady

TommyD4207 · Nov 1, 2015

robertweathers said:
That is a very good parallel.

Jones has been very good.

Packers D is also playing well.

Tonight might be pretty low scoring.

Looking forward to it.

I expect Green Bay to win by 10+. I'd say 20 if it weren't in Denver.

(I'm not a believer in Denver. Reminds me of their Tebow Miracle year)

RobertWeathers · Nov 1, 2015

TommyD4207 said:
I expect Green Bay to win by 10+. I'd say 20 if it weren't in Denver.

(I'm not a believer in Denver. Reminds me of their Tebow Miracle year)

I agree.

I like DENs D....that's it.

23-16 GB.

ivanvamp · Nov 1, 2015

One thing that is HUGE in terms of QB play is your ability to read a defense and set the appropriate protection. Often times we look at a QBs sack numbers and say, wow, that OL is terrible (or great, depending). But so much of that is determined by the QB seeing what the defense will do, and setting the protection accordingly. Brady, as far as I can tell, does this better than anyone. He sees what's coming, calls out the protection (Gronk talked about this after the Jets' game), and adjusts as he needs to. So while other QBs misread defenses, which leads to poor protection and more sacks, Brady has an uncanny ability to help his offensive line out by calling out the right pass protection assignments. Which, of course, also helps HIM out as well.

Brady6 · Nov 1, 2015

Biffins said:
Colin makes tons of points and assesses why he would pick Brady any day over Rodgers.

No debate: Give me Tom Brady over Aaron Rodgers

They're both great players and you could make a case for either one of them being the best QB in the NFL. Rodgers in younger so I understand why some choose him, I would still take Brady because I think he is in the best shape of his life right now.

Deus Irae · Nov 1, 2015

ExpatPack said:
Probably. I'm left to guess why but I think I have a few ideas.

Pointing out a few comparative flaws in an elite QB is not really bashing the guy. Brady's the best that's ever played, but he's not Michael Vick when it comes to running. So getting defensive because people are minimizing Brady's ability to run is really not the way to go in a thread like this. You end up getting the responses you're getting.

ExpatPack · Nov 1, 2015

Deus Irae said:
Pointing out a few comparative flaws in an elite QB is not really bashing the guy. Brady's the best that's ever played, but he's not Michael Vick when it comes to running. So getting defensive because people are minimizing Brady's ability to run is really not the way to go in a thread like this. You end up getting the responses you're getting.

You must have me confused with someone else. Don't think I ever mentioned Brady's running ability or lack thereof as a knock against him. What I did say is that, right now, at about the halfway point of the season, Brady is the clear front-runner for the MVP, that Rodgers has arguably been the top QB over the last 3-4 years, but that Brady is clearly the best QB of modern football with his combination of skill, leadership and accomplishments. I don't think I said anything that should draw down "wrath of god".

RelocatedPatFan · Nov 1, 2015

To certainly the great majority of fans (99%+) and most people with football Aaron Rodgers is better in every measurable way than TB. He's faster, able to escape the pocket better (even in light of Brady's improvement), throws a better deep ball and definitely a highlight reel type of QB with a load of success

BUT
in every non-measurable way a QB plays a game, you have to suspect that Brady is off the chart with those intangibles and/or has a higher degree of mastery in his system (or the system just being that much more effective). Brady has a factor in him that when the game is speeding up, he can make those micro-second adjuctments and seeing the whole field (pre and post snap) to make the TEAM better.

Thus, Brady has had more wins and possibly offensive success (though I'd have to do comparative/stats on that). Imagine, if Brady had the luxury that Peyton Manning has had and had his division be the AFCS. Or, how differently PM's career track would have been if the Colts were in the AFCE and the Dolphins in the AFCS.

Deus Irae · Nov 1, 2015

ExpatPack said:
You must have me confused with someone else.

Don't think I ever mentioned Brady's running ability or lack thereof as a knock against him. [/QUOTE]

I didn't say you had. I used Brady's lack of wheels as an example of a comparative deficiency.

ExpatPack said:
What I did say is that, right now, at about the halfway point of the season, Brady is the clear front-runner for the MVP, that Rodgers has arguably been the top QB over the last 3-4 years, but that Brady is clearly the best QB of modern football with his combination of skill, leadership and accomplishments. I don't think I said anything that should draw down "wrath of god".

Saying things like

"But please don't sound like Skip Butless, it's beneath you. Rodgers isn't getting ball-washed any more than a bunch of other guys."

is going to draw a reaction, especially after you claimed that Rodgers has been the most talented QB in the league over the past 3-4 years. Post what you want. Just don't be surprised when you get slammed in response, and don't leave in a huff. We need more fans from other teams around here, not fewer.

fumbrunner · Nov 1, 2015

He also mentioned that Rogers is close to becoming Payton Manning 2.0 with his playoff record. Outside the one SB run, he has a win against Joe Webb and a win against Dallas when Bryant's catch was ruled an incompletion.

Certainly there are comparisons there.....

ExpatPack · Nov 1, 2015

Deus Irae said:
Don't think I ever mentioned Brady's running ability or lack thereof as a knock against him.

I didn't say you had. I used Brady's lack of wheels as an example of a comparative deficiency.

Saying things like

"But please don't sound like Skip Butless, it's beneath you. Rodgers isn't getting ball-washed any more than a bunch of other guys."

is going to draw a reaction, especially after you claimed that Rodgers has been the most talented QB in the league over the past 3-4 years. Post what you want. Just don't be surprised when you get slammed in response, and don't leave in a huff. We need more fans from other teams around here, not fewer.[/QUOTE]

Rodgers is the most talented QB in the league of over the last 3-4 years, but not the most accomplished. I will be the first to tell you that Rodgers has got a lot to prove since 2010. Some of his playoff games can be excused due to injury. Others cannot. In still others the Packer defense just got steamrolled (2012 49ers).

I'm not expecting to get accolades for what I post here, but don't make the mistake of thinking I'm all ga-ga about Rodgers. I lived in Wisconsin, grew to love the Packers, etc. etc., but I like good football and I'll do my best to call it like I see it (except when it's the Bears). No fan is ever unbiased. I still follow the Pats and like to drop by this board from time to time to see what Pats fans are saying. Other than my 1 Packers forum this is the only non-Packer forum I ever post on.

Deus Irae · Nov 1, 2015

ExpatPack said:
Rodgers is the most talented QB in the league of over the last 3-4 years, but not the most accomplished.

I disagree. I hate the "talented" argument, because it becomes a backhanded slap at the better players, and often at the so-called "talented" players, as well, since it almost always is used in a way that deliberately ignores the mental talents involved in the game. Rodgers isn't more talented than Brady. That day's never yet happened. Rodgers has the best combination of throwing ability + running ability, but Brady's still the most talented quarterback in the NFL.

To put it another way, there are 32 head coaches in the NFL. If all were to honestly answer the questions "Which QB would you want on your team if you had to win one game?" and "Which QB would you want on your team if you knew you had only 2 years to win the Super Bowl or get fired", you'd have 64 answers that were "Tom Brady".

ExpatPack said:
I'm not expecting to get accolades for what I post here, but don't make the mistake of thinking I'm all ga-ga about Rodgers. I lived in Wisconsin, grew to love the Packers, etc. etc., but I like good football and I'll do my best to call it like I see it (except when it's the Bears). No fan is ever unbiased. I still follow the Pats and like to drop by this board from time to time to see what Pats fans are saying.

Whatever works for you is great. I just don't want the board to lose a poster from another team because that poster runs after some, essentially, self-inflicted wounds.

ExpatPack · Nov 1, 2015

Whatever works for you is great. I just don't want the board to lose a poster from another team because that poster runs after some said:
Well thanks for the, uh, encouragement. I'm really not going to continue be part of this discussion when whatever I say is viewed as pro-Rodgers. If you think Brady more talented than Rodgers in all the ways that matter other than running and throwing, ok. There's an argument there, but please don't patronize me with your talk about "self-inflicted wounds". /out

Deus Irae · Nov 1, 2015

ExpatPack said:
...

I wasn't patronizing you. The self inflicted wounds referred to posts that you could be sure would get a harsh response.

I make posts like that all the time. I just know what's coming. As I said, I don't want the board losing posters from other teams over such things.

Brewskies · Nov 1, 2015

turkeyneck said:
Wow. Butch Songin has occupied exactly zero space in my memory from 1961 'til your post. Butch was the Drew Bledsoe to Babe's Brady back in the day. Maybe he started the Border War; he played for the Titans after the Pats.

Songin start on September 1960 as QB first game for Boston Pats Babe Parilli came in the next season and at times Songin and Parilli alternated every other play. How bad we we then in 1961. Those were cold games Friday nights in Boston.

LivinLovin&Breathin_Brady · Nov 1, 2015

buile said:
I'm Absolutely on the Rodgers bandwagon... which happens to make him the 2nd best QB in the NFL.

I would say 3rd. I still like Brees as the 2nd best, though I can understand why some would pick Rodgers.

LivinLovin&Breathin_Brady · Nov 1, 2015

50-yard-line said:
I'll take Brady over anything I've ever seen...right now. I've never seen the position played better.

That said, anyone else notice all the ballwashing going on regarding the Pats last couple of weeks? "Will they be perfect?"

"Is this team better than '07?"

"Brady is the bestest ever!!!!"

I get the feeling the NFL jackasses and their mouthpieces realized they poked a bear and are desperately trying to lull it back to sleep.

Agree. They are still trying to convince viewers that Newton is MVP though. Is his average QBing being dragged by his D really MVP worthy, especially when you compare his game to Brady?

pheenix11 · Nov 1, 2015

Rodgers is great, clearly the 2nd best QB in the league but he needs and should have more rings to be in the same discussion as Brady.

Soul_Survivor88 · Nov 2, 2015

Aaron Rodgers has a 34 QB rating against the top 5 defenses he has faced on the road (SEA DET, BUF, SEA, DEN) with just 3 TDs, 5 INTs, and a 0-5 record

BradyFTW! · Nov 2, 2015

Bobsyouruncle said:
538 did a piece on this. Basically Rogers is always conservative to avoid the interception, even when a risk is needed to win the game.

Skeptical Football: The Aaron Rodgers Enigma

I don't know if all that is right, but it's an interesting perspective that seems to make sense. And it is odd that he has so few comebacks given how good he is normally. Been down 21 times by nine points, never pulled out a win.

Rodgers is basically the anti-Stafford. Neither changes their approach based on game situation- Stafford remains a high-risk gunslinger, whether you're down 14 in the 4th or up 14 in the 4th. As a result, your win probability with him doesn't change nearly as much based on point differential at the end of the game as it should, in either direction.

Rodgers is the opposite: he stays conservative, which pretty much preserves whatever outcome you were trending toward. If the Packers are winning at the start of the fourth quarter , they'll win. If they were losing, they'll lose. Either way, he's not going to change the outcome. And it's not just fourth quarter - Rodgers' record is really bad (compared to the other elites) in games where his team has fallen behind by 7+ at any point. He's a front-runner, and I don't say that in a derogatory way necessarily. That was Tiger Woods' MO back when he was good as well, and it always suited him fine. Rodgers is at his best when he basically ends the game before the fourth quarter. Which he does often, and that's what the Packers optimize their defense to excel at.

Rodgers is just a different kind of QB than Brady. He's more likely to blow a game open early, and he does that by combining deep downfield throws and interception avoidance in a way that nobody else really does. He deserves all the accolades he gets for that. But if it's close late, or if god forbid you actually have to make a comeback, he's not your guy. Never has been, probably never will be.

When it comes to maximizing win probability at all point differentials, Brady and Manning are in a league of their own. Last year, I saw a great article that included curves plotting how the various QBs' win probabilities tracked with point differential in the fourth quarter. Can't seem to find it right now, but I'll keep looking. It was really interesting, and relevant here.

Interception · Nov 2, 2015

Joey007 said:
Cowherd's an enigma to me.

He can be a complete arrogant, asshat. Yet somehow there's some likability to him.

What you mean is that every time he says something negative about the patriots he's an "asshat" to you and any time he says something positive, there's "some likability to him."

Colin Cowherd ridicules the idea that Aaron Rodgers is comparable to Tom Brady

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