2 Part Question: What, if anything, could Kraft have done?

Off The Grid · Oct 31, 2015

RayClay said:
01 ~ Within the League's Rules, could he have protested the Draft Picks Penalty and Fine?

WE all protested it. He could have appealed and Goodell would have heard the appeal and the league rules say he can discipline owners any way he wants. Kraft doesn't have a union and he agreed to giving Goodell that power.

02 ~ Outside the League's Rules, could he have pushed it into the Courts as Brady did?

I doubt he had grounds, given number one, but goodell has mucked up so badly, maybe he could have sued to have the antitrust exemption overturned because his for profit team was being negatively affected by the arrangement. that would eliminate the salary cap and brought in a whole new world where we'd actually get to have all pros at each position, just like some posters want, if
krafty foots the bill, which he can afford.

*03 ~ Addendum: Does he have any remaining Recourse, within or without?

There are 32 people who can remove Goodell and he's one of them. Brady can't, the NFLPA can't [directly]. I don't know how many votes he could get now, I'm guessing it's more than a handful. If he got that number up to 20-24, depending on who chooses to vote, King corruption is dead.

Excellent and educational. Thank you, Brother Ray!!

The Boston Patriot · Oct 31, 2015

Kraft's billions, hungry & capable lawyers, and the courts, would have been an excellent death cage matchup to the NFL ineptitude. and it's equally incompetent legal staff and consultants. Nobody will ever convince me he didn't roll over for the billionaires club. If you have evidence to the contrary, bring it on. Al Davis proved they (the NFL) are not immune to getting their faces pushed in regardless of what some by-laws say. As Judge Berman did, so would any court viewing the case that without evidence (admitted to by the NFL) a punishment for hearsay and innuendo was totally out of line. You are barking up the wrong tree defending Kraft on this one. The Emperor has not clothes, period.

Off The Grid · Oct 31, 2015

jmt57 said:
The tricky part of all this is that NFL v Brady is not about the Patriot QB or PSI; it is all about the league (and Goodell) wanting to gain more power over the players and NFLPA. Goodell has publicly admitted this.

If Kraft pushes his (rightful) agenda then that weakens the case that all 32 owners are attempting to win.

On the other hand Kraft and his team are being wrongfully and royally hosed. His priorities are all screwed up; his franchise, his team, should mean more to him than the collective potential benefit of 32 owners.

Without a doubt Kraft should have maintained the offensive that he began, and demanded the draft picks be returned when Berman made his decision. Middle school science has proven that the air pressure in those footballs was right where it should be - something that virtually nobody outside of New England will talk about or acknowledge to this day.

If Goodell can use the media to his benefit to sway public opinion, why don't the Patriots do the same? Even though the NFL has more powerful business partners (ESPN, SI) on their side, the Pats have a distinct advantage of their own: the truth.

Very educational and brilliantly put, Brother!!

RayClay · Oct 31, 2015

YOUGOTMOSSED said:
Can the draft picks actually be restored or, as some posters have suggested, that possibility was waived when Kraft declined to appeal?

Is there any reason Goodell cannot simply "decree" that he is reversing his decision to take the picks away (other than the fact that he is an unbelievable douche bag as are the other creepy owners in on this crap)?

They could be restored if godell feels like doing it. it's entirely up to him when it comes to team discipline. Kraft had nothing to waive.

flasox27 · Oct 31, 2015

patfanken said:
While I thoroughly agree with everything you wrote, I THINK that Kraft is limited by the ownership bylaws from some of the more draconian actions you suggested. But your case that he hasn't done enough is well made, as well as your numerical assessment of his record as owner.

He has done SO much to build this franchise into what it is, but his seemingly inability to confront those who are attacking him, can't be ignored, because they are the direct cause of the national reputation of his franchise. And THAT is something that his fans have to deal with every day.

I want to know why there was never a counter PR effort after spygate , the incident that initially labelled us "cheaters", because, as anyone who actually knows anything beyond the debunked Herald story" the "crime" was NEVER about cheating and Goodell even said so..,..once. Was it by choice, or was he forced by the league to remain silent, like in the months after "defamegate".

I would like some mediot to actually take the time to tell us what options are open to Kraft to fight this slander campaign, both within the league or in the courts. I want to know how he can stand it to see his team, a team he worked so hard to build up, be torn down on a regular basis, and not do a THING to respond, except win games.

The Patriots are not mine. I'm just a fan who follows the team. I can walk away at any time. This is HIS baby. He clearly loves this team. When you think about it, he risked a LOT when he bought one of the worst franchises in sports for the most money EVER. I go nuts when I think about the malicious attacks that are still ongoing, I can't imagine what he's going through.

I think the best analogy is this. We all are saddened when we read about some tragedy to some child, but it is NOTHING compared to the pain that the parents feel. This is how it SHOULD be for Kraft. The guy wears his heart on his sleeve, when it comes to the Patriots. I'm sure his favorite part of the job isn't watching the game from a plush owners box, but rather being in a sweaty locker room to congratulate or console the guys who coach and play for him.

We all know that SOMETHING has to be done, Grid. The question is what? My solution is the defamation case. I believe just let it be known that after the season one will be filed, and I bet there will be an IMMEDIATE cessation of these kinds of indirect and direct attacks. Then after the season, opening up the facts of what went on during deflategate, including deposing and gathering all the communications between the Goodell Cabal will clear Brady, the Pats, and help get us back our draft picks.

Sorry to say, I think Kraft who I am sure is good and intelligent was deluded and stopped thinking of himself as the owner of the Pats and became in his mind foremost a member of the brotherhood of owners and protector of the league. His actions since 2007 give credence to this. I just don't think he has the willingness to confront those whom he trusted and betrayed him. Unfortunately its time for a change to save the team. Let Jonathan take on the POS and his minions.

reflexblue · Oct 31, 2015

The Gr8est said:
I don't have an answer for your questions, but DAMN that was well-written.

Ive been thinking this for years......
If he isn't already Grid should be a professional writer, hes very intertaining. And he can spell beter than me.

RayClay · Oct 31, 2015

jmt57 said:
Without a doubt Kraft should have maintained the offensive that he began, and demanded the draft picks be returned when Berman made his decision.

Then Goodell could have said no.

Those "other owners" and Kraft are the only humans who can get rid of goodell and all they need to do is vote.

PatsDeb · Oct 31, 2015

He could have challenged the penalties the same way Brady did, and should have. He wimped out and hid in his ivory tower, rationalizing to himself that it would help Tom Brady, even though there was zero evidence that was the case, and any rational person looking at the situation would see that wimping out made the Pats look guilty.

However, I too have wimped out. I vowed not to watch the Indy game and to boycott Patriots Place. I vowed not to watch any other NFL games and not to spend one dime more on NFL or Pats merchandise. My vows (except for the spending $$ on merchandise, which I have not done, but more because of economics than a boycott) lasted about one minute. I love football too much and something that a poster here said struck a nerve with me - why should I punish myself when it won't make a difference anyway?

So, while I blame Bob Kraft for wimping out and not fighting the NFL machine when he should have, I am not much better. However, him fighting probably could make a difference, where me fighting could not.

Off The Grid · Oct 31, 2015

The Boston Patriot said:
You are barking up the wrong tree defending Kraft on this one.

As you didn't manage to indicate or quote who this was addressed to, should we assume an imaginary Foe?

A Straw Man?

Because if you imagine that I was defending Kraft's actions during DeflateGate ~ and unquoted statements are always presumed to be addressed to the OP ~ then you need some remedial English.

PatsDeb · Oct 31, 2015

YOUGOTMOSSED said:
Can the draft picks actually be restored or, as some posters have suggested, that possibility was waived when Kraft declined to appeal?

Is there any reason Goodell cannot simply "decree" that he is reversing his decision to take the picks away (other than the fact that he is an unbelievable douche bag as are the other creepy owners in on this crap)?

There're gone baby gone...

RayClay · Oct 31, 2015

YOUGOTMOSSED said:
That's pretty messed up if true but why not just appeal anyway? Goodell denies it concurrently with Brady's but so what?

Brady wins in "for realsy" court and Kraft can demand that Goodell reconsider or he will pursue some remedy for Goodell's "bad faith." Good faith and fair dealing is legally implied in all contracts.

I think "why not" do something futile isn't a good reason.

As I've said before, Brady can't fire Goodell, the NFLPA can't fire goodell, only 20-24 members of a select group of 32 can do it and they can do it easily if they isolate the handful of a-holes like drug addict Irsay we see all the time in the news.

I'm not that smart and I'm certainly not rich, but that's what i would do.

I don't think, like some, that a public name calling match and PR campaign is going to go very far. People are over saturated and the Corruptioner spends more on PR, invesigators and lawyers than he does on the game.

ivanvamp · Oct 31, 2015

Observer said:
Sue ESPN, that would be a good start. Refuse to hand over the draft pick, that would be a good second step. Demand that the ball pressures be released and the Mort report be corrected before taking the field for the superbowl would be a good third. There are a vast number of things you can do other than act like a helpless victim if you have the truth on your side.

"Refuse to hand over the draft pick"?? How on earth would they do that?

When Goodell steps to the podium to announce the first pick of the second round, what do the Patriots do, jump in and say, wait a minute, we are taking player X so nobody else can have him!!! ???

reflexblue · Oct 31, 2015

From what i remember from last spring kraft is not suppose to be able to sue the league ala al davis. But by kraft filing he would have proved he was serious about this and scarred the hell out of the other owners. Probably resulting in a back room resolution between the league and the patriots. If the other 31 owners thought Bob was serious enough we could have gotten those picks back. They don't want to upset the apple cart that brings in so much money.

RayClay · Oct 31, 2015

PatsDeb said:
He could have challenged the penalties the same way Brady did

Actually, he couldn't. Brady appealed based on the unfairness of the punishments according to the labor agreement.

Kraft's agreement says the commissioner can levy any discipline on a team he wants. According to the agreement the owners made, it doesn't have to be fair or logical, it's law if he says it, like a dictator.

of course Kraft, with political support, can fire him.

RayClay · Oct 31, 2015

ivanvamp said:
"Refuse to hand over the draft pick"?? How on earth would they do that?

When Goodell steps to the podium to announce the first pick of the second round, what do the Patriots do, jump in and say, wait a minute, we are taking player X so nobody else can have him!!! ???

Hey, you're stealing my scenario!

PatsDeb · Oct 31, 2015

RayClay said:
Actually, he couldn't. Brady appealed based on the unfairness of the punishments according to the labor agreement.

Kraft's agreement says the commissioner can levy any discipline on a team he wants. According to the agreement the owners made, it doesn't have to be fair or logical, it's law if he says it, like a dictator.

of course Kraft, with political support, can fire him.

I am not so sure this is true (but I haven't bothered to look it up) as Kraft initially vowed to fight and then specifically said he decided not to appeal. There has to be something he could have done, even if it was a futile exercise, legally. It would have helped, "politically."

RayClay · Oct 31, 2015

reflexblue said:
From what i remember from last spring kraft is not suppose to be able to sue the league ala al davis. But by kraft filing he would have shone he was serious about this and scarred the hell out of the other owners. Probably resulting in a back room resolution between the league and the patriots. If the other 31 owners thought Bob was serious enough we could have gotten those picks back. They don't want to upset the apple cart that brings in so much money.

Davis was prevented from moving his team. He filed an antitrust suit and won. He lost others. The point being, he had billions of dollars on the line, damages.

I'm not a lawyer, but i imagine if you filed an antitrust suit based on the imaginary damages you could prove by losing a low first round pick, you'd put the antitrust exemption, shared revenues and salary cap at risk.

I know we have a lot of lawyers here and i would be curious on what basis Kraft could sue the league, even if it doesn't have much chance of success. Defamation? Weasel mouth never says anything that i would consider defamation about owners.

ausbacker · Oct 31, 2015

Asking a billionaire to hang a man who is perceived to make him money is like asking a crack addict to give up their dealer. Kraft chose his side.

RayClay · Oct 31, 2015

PatsDeb said:
I am not so sure this is true (but I haven't bothered to look it up) as Kraft initially vowed to fight and then specifically said he decided not to appeal. There has to be something he could have done, even if it was a futile exercise, legally. It would have helped, "politically."

Well, since he is one of the guys who can fire goodell, I think working politically behind the scenes to get votes, like Congress does every day, is the best route. Obviously, broadcasting that would be counterproductive, so i don't know more than anyone.

Brady's whole appeal and succesful suit after he lost, is based on how the punishment and appeal were handled in regards to the NFLPA legal agreement.

The owners agreement regarding discipline is, commish levies it, you accept it or appeal...to the guy who levied it and can simply deny your appeal in one word.

Off The Grid · Oct 31, 2015

RayClay said:
They could be restored if godell feels like doing it. it's entirely up to him when it comes to team discipline. Kraft had nothing to waive.

Really?? That makes perfect sense...And it's a very intriguing Notion, actually...

I answered the perhaps rhetorical question "When is this BS going to stop??" in another Thread:

It will stop the very moment ~ should it ever transpire, as I pray it will and soon ~ that Robert Kraft finally looks himself in the mirror, admits to'mself that that sick feeling in'is gut is because he knows that he's been acting the Coward for Years, admits that the Peace that he imagines that he's bought is merely Servitude and Slavery in another form...and decides that feeling like a Man again is worth every bit of Trouble and Turmoil that will ensue when he finally stands up to his Enemies and goes to War with them.

Should Kraft indeed defy the Odds and answer our Prayers and experience such an Epiphany, there is the Possibility ~ if your are correct regarding Goodel's Authority to reverse himself, and I have no reason to think you're wrong ~ that Kraft could simply pound away in front of the Cameras, relentlessly roasting Goodel while pursuing any legal recourse he might have to humiliate Goodel and get his outrageously lucrative Job taken away from'm...until Goodel caves in and negotiates Peace...A Peace that of course consists of Goodel rescinding the Penalty and admitting that the Evidence didn't warrant it.

Hell...Even the Threat of all that might do it, if Goodel looks Kraft in the eye and realizes he means it.

It's a Million to One against Kraft experiencing such an Epiphany ~ the older one gets, the less likely it is for Courage to return, once it's fled ~ but he'd have a damned good Chance of Success.

2 Part Question: What, if anything, could Kraft have done?

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

PatsFans.com Supporter

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

Hall of Fame Poster

In the Starting Line-Up

PatsFans.com Supporter

Hall of Fame Poster

PatsFans.com Supporter

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

PatsFans.com Supporter

Hall of Fame Poster

In the Starting Line-Up

PatsFans.com Supporter

Hall of Fame Poster

Hall of Fame Poster

PatsFans.com Supporter

Hall of Fame Poster

TB12

Hall of Fame Poster

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

Similar threads