OT was letting both Talib and Revis sign elsewhere a good decision?

NG Pats Fan said:

I haven't complained about anything. I love the patriots. The patriots run my life. I am looking toward the bigger picture. I want to repeat. This thread was not a complaint it was a question

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The issue here isn't really about the details of your post. It is that by suggesting that the Pats pay a small fortune for one CB, you are suggesting that the Pats throw out the entire business methodology that underlies all the success they've had. They have a value on each position, and build the team around that. They don't window shop or impulse buy. They don't keep players around long who don't buy into the humility and selflessness that's required for "do your job."

This is why they have been by far the most successful team in the NFL for 15 years, arguably the greatest such stretch in history.

Your suggestion about the Pats is the equivalent of suggesting that Ford should switch to hand crafting each automobile it makes. It requires an entire change in philosophy.

Your post is not the first like this; there have been many. They are all tiresome and dull. That's why you are getting this reaction.

While I'd love to have one of them, the undisputable facts are :

1) If we'd signed Talib we wouldn't have signed Revis. Every move last year resulted in winning a SB so not re-signing Talib worked.

2) Revis' contract number was too high so that wasn't a reasonable option.

So I'm happy how it worked out.

Now, if The Butler doesn't make The Play and we don't win the SB, my answer to #1 would have been different. Winning the SB changes EVERYTHING.

BelichickFan said:

While I'd love to have one of them, the undisputable facts are :

1) If we'd signed Talib we wouldn't have signed Revis. Every move last year resulted in winning a SB so not re-signing Talib worked.

2) Revis' contract number was too high so that wasn't a reasonable option.

So I'm happy how it worked out.

Now, if The Butler doesn't make The Play and we don't win the SB, my answer to #1 would have been different. Winning the SB changes EVERYTHING.

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Very possible he comes back here in 2016.

Talib's deal was basically a 2 year or depending how you look at it a 3 yr deal.

His cap # in 2016 is $10m w/a $3m cap hit if cut. He would stand to make $8.5m also.

However, he seems to be earning every penny of that this year.

robertweathers said:

Very possible he comes back here in 2016.

Talib's deal was basically a 2 year or depending how you look at it a 3 yr deal.

His cap # in 2016 is $10m w/a $3m cap hit if cut. He would stand to make $8.5m also.

However, he seems to be earning every penny of that this year.

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I wouldn't want him back. When the stage is big, the biggest players find a way to play. Talib didn't look like he cared to come back into the AFCCG and would have rather saved his health to earn a big payday. Worked out for him just fine but he wasn't there for the team either time when they needed him the most.

I don't really see it as a bad idea. We let Talib go and replaced him with Revis (very few teams can afford to bankroll two elite CBs) which we were ecstatic about. The hope was Revis would take a slight discount to stay at a Championship contending team but that ended up being a lost hope.

Looking at Revis' contract details (and our cap situation wasn't as superb as some made out) I'm happy we didn't re-sign. We can't start getting in to the business of over-paying when the model we have been working with has worked for so long.

Why do people still doubt BB and Kraft's method? Is 15 years of sheer domination, sixe Super Bowl appearances and four wins not enough for you????

Revis isn't carrying that team either. That team is performing well on all levels. They are one of the most consistent teams right now in all three phases and thoroughly deserve to be 4-1. This will be a huge test.

WinstonSmith said:

Somewhere in NYC and Denver several fans just posted something similar to: "Maybe we should have spent a little more on offense."

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Actually Denver fans are probably wishing the spent LESS on offense. As in dumping Manning who has been outplayed by Brian Hoyer.

Which pretty much makes the point that dropping megabucks on aging stars is not a great plan.

KontradictioN said:

I wouldn't want him back. When the stage is big, the biggest players find a way to play. Talib didn't look like he cared to come back into the AFCCG and would have rather saved his health to earn a big payday. Worked out for him just fine but he wasn't there for the team either time when they needed him the most.

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Not only that, but the last 2 years Talib as started the season blazing, then he gets injured and cools down. I like Talib, but hes injury prone, and if you talk to most Broncos fans, they like Harris more then Talib.

It really sucks watching Talib and Revis ball out this year, but Butler is practically free, and the secondary is pretty much fine overall (perhaps due to purposeful overstocking on safeties). Ideally Butler will start intercepting or breaking up the touchdowns he was "inches away" on, but eventually his grace period will run out and that will become a legitimate flaw. But seeing this level of play out of an undrafted DII CB in his 6th start, I can deal.

KontradictioN said:

I wouldn't want him back. When the stage is big, the biggest players find a way to play. Talib didn't look like he cared to come back into the AFCCG and would have rather saved his health to earn a big payday. Worked out for him just fine but he wasn't there for the team either time when they needed him the most.

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I view his time here differently.

robertweathers said:

We view his time here differently.

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What did I say that was factually incorrect?

KontradictioN said:

What did I say that was factually incorrect?

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Your position is that Talib is not a gamer. I disagree. Besides him pulling a hamstring or hyper-extending his knee, I'm not sure there are facts to support your assertion.

robertweathers said:

We view his time here differently.

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who is 'We'?

if Talib gets through the year uninjured, it will be the first time in 6 years he has done so....so I wouldn't bet on it

As for Revis.........he needed the Pats to reach the apex of his career........did the Pats ever even make him an offer?

IllegalContact said:

who is 'We'?

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I was speaking for you

I'm going to say this again, we didn't let Revis walk. He wanted to go to the Jets and wanted absurd money that we couldn't fit in our cap. BB wanted to address the D-line and knows we have to pay Collins soon.

Talib was a great Patriot. We decided not to match because of the opportunity to get Revis. No hatred for Talib.

robertweathers said:

Your position is that Talib is not a gamer. I disagree. Besides him pulling a hamstring or hyper-extending his knee, I'm not sure there are facts to support your assertion.

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When the defensive gameplan falls apart without you in there, you find a way to come back into the biggest game of your career with a pulled hamstring or a hyperextended knee that you ran into the tunnel on and let the coaches design coverage around that. Remember Dennard all but yelling at him on the sidelines? There was a reason for that. Talib didn't look like he WANTED to go back into the game. The best guess one can make is that he was more afraid of losing money in free agency. For crying out loud, Hightower played the Super Bowl with one arm. Same with Earl Thomas. Those are gamers. Talib was and is not.

KontradictioN said:

When the defensive gameplan falls apart without you in there, you find a way to come back into the biggest game of your career with a pulled hamstring or a hyperextended knee that you ran into the tunnel on and let the coaches design coverage around that. Remember Dennard all but yelling at him on the sidelines? There was a reason for that. Talib didn't look like he WANTED to go back into the game. The best guess one can make is that he was more afraid of losing money in free agency. For crying out loud, Hightower played the Super Bowl with one arm. Same with Earl Thomas. Those are gamers. Talib was and is not.

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I'm not going to speculate why Dennard was yelling at Talib. What I do know from experience is that it is a complete ***** to run and shuffle around with a pulled hamstring and a hyperextended knee. I also know that the team wanted to resign him after both the 2013 and 2014 seasons. I don't think BB would try and resign a dog- twice.

Now...if you want to say he is made of glass and should be the reason why the don't try to resign him that I agree with!

Tell me how we keep either of them and the cap/personnel ramifications of doing so? Then I might agree with you. Until then I trust BB a lot more than you wrt cap/personnel decision making. Wishing is not the same as doing.

SammyBlueCat said:

Revis was and is an elite talent however he made up his mind a long time ago.
Talib and Browner are good solid guys however they seem to match up well with
tall lanky guys and struggle with quick shifty guys. All of them represent water under
the bridge.

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Browner and Talib are not even close. Yes they are both better against bigger guys. But Talib is by a wide margin the much better corner.

I will say this. I don't claim to know how BB thinks but here is something I personally noticed and it might have crossed his mind.

It does not matter how good your 1st and 2nd CB is if your 3rd is not that good. Sometimes even when you have 3 very good ones it is hard to be sure of anything.

Look at last years SB. This was perhaps the best group of secondary talent ever in a SB. You had perhaps the 2 best CBs that year. Perhaps the 2 best FSs that year Kam Chancellor and Browner are no slouches when allowed to play within their skill set.

What happened? 28-24. IT wasn't like the front 7 of either team was bad either. The secondary of either team was not left hanging. It was just Arrington (our 3rd guy) and Seattle's 3rd guy got abused. Sherman and Revis shut down their man for the most part. Honestly it didn't make that much of a difference.

Now when we took Arrington out and put Butler in things went well but tossing jump balls down the field was still enough even with 3 quality CBs on the field.

I think BB believes against a well coached offense having a shut down CB in todays game doesn't matter much anymore cause unless your whole secondary is strong you will get beat.

Now look at the Ravens game. They gave up 31 points and a lot of the damage was done through the air. Some was jump balls and some was just an offense spreading you out and leaving everyone on an island and picking who happened to have the most space.

BB built the best back field he has for over 10 years and saw it in the modern NFL and didn't think that was the spot to invest in. I think he has come to the conclusion a so-so backfield that does not allow big plays and a great front 7 is a more economical way to go.

Just a guess though.