Draft Kings, Fan Duel and Fantasy Football--What do you think?

primetime · Oct 15, 2015

As with most gambling, the house is going to take home a hefty ransom. That's just how gambling works; even with the Generalized Casino -- sorry, I mean stock market -- you have the house in the form of brokers and fund managers ready to skim off the top.

As with most gambling, and most other forms of leisure in this world from alcohol to television, it can be used responsibly or abused. Playing a strict $10 a week on Fanduel for fun is no more problematic than spending $10 a week on Starbucks, which millions of Americans do without any stigma. It's just entertainment.

On the other hand, playing your entire paycheck on Fanduel when you need to make rent is a problem, but in no different way than blowing your paycheck on a shopping spree or alcohol binge is.

The big issue comes with false or misleading advertising of odds of winning and rigged games. This is where the government's intervention in the industry is necessary, because making sure these particular practices (which would undoubtedly happen, given the potential profits and what mass media marketing allows) are eliminated. Employees in the industry playing in the games certainly make for a perception that the games are rigged.

TBR · Oct 15, 2015

I'm tired of hearing about it. Just reading the thread title annoyed me, although I ended up agreeing with what you said

The Brandon Five · Oct 15, 2015

primetime said:
As with most gambling, the house is going to take home a hefty ransom. That's just how gambling works; even with the Generalized Casino -- sorry, I mean stock market -- you have the house in the form of brokers and fund managers ready to skim off the top.

Don't forget the specialists. That's like a license to print money.

jays52 · Oct 15, 2015

It's interesting to me why this is such a big issue. Draft Kings effectively identified the "game of skill loop hole" then built from a server and a couple of laptops to a $900m valuation. They identified a market, served it, figured out how to monetize it and built a profitable company. They're nothing more than transactional intermediaries no different than the Kickstarters of the world. IMO, that's just good ole fashioned American capitalism. Good for them.

Is it gambling? Of course, but so are a lot of things. Gambling can mess up your life but so can cheeseburgers and milkshakes. Fantasy isn't my cup of tea but to each their own.

XLIX · Oct 15, 2015

Bobsyouruncle said:
Fraud is already illegal, and at this point that's an accusation. But anyone who thinks they got screwed can certainly take them to court, with no new laws necessary.

Once Uncle Sam steps in you can be sure that their business will be profitable as long as they give to the politicians. And the politicians will squeeze anyone out of the market to protect their donors. As usual with regulations what you'll end up with is a limited market of large cronies working with the regulators to squeeze out any competition. It's also usually good for making sure those that may get screwed have no recourse since they can now just say they followed the new regulations they helped write, and that makes screwing people legal.

I don't hear a lot of complaints from users of the sites so I still don't see who we'd be saving. The users seem to be perfectly happy with their purchases.

Not true. We are already seeing lawsuits. Satisfied customers don't sue.

raduray · Oct 15, 2015

TBR said:
I'm tired of hearing about it. Just reading the thread title annoyed me, although I ended up agreeing with what you said

So why did you open the thread?

1960Pats · Oct 15, 2015

Question: If there was a government run gambling operation that was around for 30 or more years and never gave out either of the top two prizes, would you play?

KENO players by the thousands do that every few minutes of every day here in Taxachusetts.

primetime · Oct 15, 2015

jays52 said:
IMO, that's just good ole fashioned American capitalism. Good for them.

pure ideology

Brady_to_Moss · Oct 15, 2015

I do fanduel some weekends for hockey and football..i like it and last year i won $250 in a $5 team

XLIX · Oct 15, 2015

1960Pats said:
Question: If there was a government run gambling operation that was around for 30 or more years and never gave out either of the top two prizes, would you play?

It would depend on the structure of the operation and how many people have actually played it.

MitchKumstein · Oct 15, 2015

jays52 said:
It's interesting to me why this is such a big issue. Draft Kings effectively identified the "game of skill loop hole" then built from a server and a couple of laptops to a $900m valuation. They identified a market, served it, figured out how to monetize it and built a profitable company. They're nothing more than transactional intermediaries no different than the Kickstarters of the world. IMO, that's just good ole fashioned American capitalism. Good for them.

Is it gambling? Of course, but so are a lot of things. Gambling can mess up your life but so can cheeseburgers and milkshakes. Fantasy isn't my cup of tea but to each their own.

My issue isn't with these sites or their "game of skills" loophole. My issue is that these sites are allowed (by the backing of NFL billionaires) to operate while online poker sites, also a game is skill, were shut down.

I loved online poker. I had a lot of fun sitting at the PC playing $10 hold'em tournaments. I was bummed when they shut them down.

XLIX · Oct 15, 2015

The Nevada Gaming Control Board has officially called DFS sites to be "gambling."

"Based on these analyses, I, along with the board staff, have concluded that DFS constitutes gambling under Nevada law." A.G. Burnett, Chairman, NGCB

IANAL but reading this release it seems to me that DraftKings and FanDuel may no longer operate in Nevada unless licensed.

http://gaming.nv.gov/modules/showdocument.aspx?documentid=10481

EDIT: ESPN posted an article about this confirming my esteemed (

) legal interpretation of the above. Looks like DFS websites will be shut out of Nevada for the time being.

RayClay · Oct 15, 2015

jays52 said:
It's interesting to me why this is such a big issue. Draft Kings effectively identified the "game of skill loop hole" then built from a server and a couple of laptops to a $900m valuation. They identified a market, served it, figured out how to monetize it and built a profitable company. They're nothing more than transactional intermediaries no different than the Kickstarters of the world. IMO, that's just good ole fashioned American capitalism. Good for them.

Is it gambling? Of course, but so are a lot of things. Gambling can mess up your life but so can cheeseburgers and milkshakes. Fantasy isn't my cup of tea but to each their own.

There was a time when a hint of gambling definitely compromised the "integrity" of the sport.

I agree with that opinion.

RayClay · Oct 15, 2015

RayClay said:
There was a time when a hint of gambling definitely compromised the "integrity" of the sport.

I agree with that opinion.

I much prefer the moral leadership back then too.

Adam Seward · Oct 15, 2015

How does this compromise integrity of the game?

PlainOldEd · Oct 15, 2015

I am in the apparent minority of folks here who enjoy it. For those who are saying that most people are just suckers giving their money to a select group of insiders I would guess that you have never even looked at the site. On average the "jackpot" style games (where you can win the big prizes) pay out to the top 20 -22%. People who finish near the 20% mark generally double up, and the closer you get to the top the higher the payout. So essentially if you do your homework and pick a good team and play a $5 jackpot you have a decent chance of at least doubling up and a (granted much slimmer) chance of winning real money. Compare that to a $5 scratch ticket and I'd say it is a much better deal.
But if those odds are too long for you they also offer "double up" games where the top 45% double their money. So for a game where 5600 people are playing spots 1-2500 all win double their entry fee (which varies).

I agree that the ads can be annoying, but all in all I think the concept is a good one and I enjoy it.

For the record, so far I have neither won nor lost. I started with $100, because I used to play in a traditional fantasy league that fizzled out and that was the entry fee, and at the start of this week I had $105.50. So we'll see how it goes, but even if I end up losing the whole $100 I will at least have been entertained.

primetime · Oct 15, 2015

PlainOldEd said:
I am in the apparent minority of folks here who enjoy it. For those who are saying that most people are just suckers giving their money to a select group of insiders I would guess that you have never even looked at the site. On average the "jackpot" style games (where you can win the big prizes) pay out to the top 20 -22%. People who finish near the 20% mark generally double up, and the closer you get to the top the higher the payout. So essentially if you do your homework and pick a good team and play a $5 jackpot you have a decent chance of at least doubling up and a (granted much slimmer) chance of winning real money. Compare that to a $5 scratch ticket and I'd say it is a much better deal.
But if those odds are too long for you they also offer "double up" games where the top 45% double their money. So for a game where 5600 people are playing spots 1-2500 all win double their entry fee (which varies).

I agree that the ads can be annoying, but all in all I think the concept is a good one and I enjoy it.

For the record, so far I have neither won nor lost. I started with $100, because I used to play in a traditional fantasy league that fizzled out and that was the entry fee, and at the start of this week I had $105.50. So we'll see how it goes, but even if I end up losing the whole $100 I will at least have been entertained.

Well, multi entry games mean that the top 20% could very well be like 2 or 3 people. I don't disagree with you, by the way, and I play about $10 a week.

PlainOldEd · Oct 15, 2015

primetime said:
Well, multi entry games mean that the top 20% could very well be like 2 or 3 people. I don't disagree with you, by the way, and I play about $10 a week.

So in a game where there are 30,000 entrants are you suggesting that 2 or 3 people could own all 6000 teams that finish in the top 20%?

raduray · Oct 15, 2015

PlainOldEd said:
I am in the apparent minority of folks here who enjoy it. For those who are saying that most people are just suckers giving their money to a select group of insiders I would guess that you have never even looked at the site. On average the "jackpot" style games (where you can win the big prizes) pay out to the top 20 -22%. People who finish near the 20% mark generally double up, and the closer you get to the top the higher the payout. So essentially if you do your homework and pick a good team and play a $5 jackpot you have a decent chance of at least doubling up and a (granted much slimmer) chance of winning real money. Compare that to a $5 scratch ticket and I'd say it is a much better deal.
But if those odds are too long for you they also offer "double up" games where the top 45% double their money. So for a game where 5600 people are playing spots 1-2500 all win double their entry fee (which varies).

I agree that the ads can be annoying, but all in all I think the concept is a good one and I enjoy it.

For the record, so far I have neither won nor lost. I started with $100, because I used to play in a traditional fantasy league that fizzled out and that was the entry fee, and at the start of this week I had $105.50. So we'll see how it goes, but even if I end up losing the whole $100 I will at least have been entertained.

I don't play, but I have no problem with DFS in principle. The problem I have is with the charade that it's not gambling. It is gambling and it should be treated on par with other sports gambling options. In my opinion, they should all be regulated and legal. Betting on a team is really no different from betting on a set of players. The NFL's hypocrisy in embracing DFS while arguing against traditional gambling is an embarrassment to the shield.

Zeus · Oct 15, 2015

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...h-to-win-money-playing-daily-fantasy-football

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