Will this defense be top ten? (hint: no)

The Brandon Five said:

Some good points here, but the Tyrod Taylor-led Bills put up 27 points against the mighty Colts that we are supposed to be afraid of now. They also dropped 41 on the lowly Dolphins. Those same Dolphins lost to the Jaguars who the Pats dropped 51 on. The Weeden-led Cowboys that Pats D kept out of the endzone dropped 28 on the unbeaten Falcons.

They have yet to face an "elite" QB (except in practice), but they have played pretty well. The first real tests will be the Giants and then the Broncos two weeks later.

Hopefully, by the time January/February rolls around the secondary will have continued to improve, as the real challenges could come then (Bengals, Packers, Falcons, Cardinals). Thankfully, the Pats have some of the best depth in the entire NFL, particularly on defense, so I expect those matchups to get more favorable as the season moves along.

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Peyton Manning is no longer elite. He is a bottom 10, maybe even bottom 5, QB.

FourierSeries said:

Peyton Manning is no longer elite. He is a bottom 10, maybe even bottom 5, QB.

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Yeah, I was reaching there. Maybe just the Giants.

I guess the Colts are theoretically a test for the secondary, but I don't expect Luck or Hasselbeck to have all that much time to throw to their speedy receivers.

The Brandon Five said:

but the Tyrod Taylor-led Bills

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Without the aid of driving half the field (3 drives of 50 yards or less IIRC, and one of those drives being aided by a 40 yard PI), Taylor and the Bills only put up 13 points on this defense.

Basically better play calling or deciding just to kick it on two 4th down plays and the bills that game probably score 13.

JMC00 said:

Without the aid of driving half the field (3 drives of 50 yards or less IIRC, and one of those drives being aided by a 40 yard PI), Taylor and the Bills only put up 13 points on this defense.

Basically better play calling or deciding just to kick it on two 4th down plays and the bills that game probably score 13.

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Yeah, I only commented on how much they scored against a couple of other teams. I think the Monday Night game at home is going to be pretty one-sided.

The Brandon Five said:

Yeah, I was reaching there. Maybe just the Giants.

I guess the Colts are theoretically a test for the secondary, but I don't expect Luck or Hasselbeck to have all that much time to throw to their speedy receivers.

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The other thing that will help us at least statistically in games like in Indy is that with the Power Run Strategy, the Defense won't be on the field nearly as much. In the Last 3 games v.s. Indy, the longest the Defense was on the field was 25:39 Time of possession. Letting Blount and Lewis eat up a ton of clock will limit Indy's ability to rack up yards.

Held the Cowboys to only 6 points. The talent is there. The Patriots front 7 is quite impressive. They will help cover up the secondary. And even in the secondary Butler and McCourty are solid.

The offenses that can expose our lack of CB depth:

-Patriots (oops we can't play them)
-Steelers
-Maybe the Cardinals

There are barely any elite offenses this year besides us. The Saints lost almost everyone & Brees may be in decline, the Colts offense is fraudulent, Peyton is done, and the Packers offense is nothing special without Nelson. They are 10th in yards and score 27 PPG (5th). Put Butler on James Jones/give Cobb the Hilton double team treatment and I think we could limit them.

Regarding the Giants, they have one great weapon at this point and I think Butler could get that diva Beckham ejected from the game with mind games. There just aren't that many great offenses this year with the lack of elite QBs.

SalemPats said:

I just want to say that this is a top 10 defense that will probably finish just outside the top ten because of garbage 4th quarter points.

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They're currently seventh and historically they get better towards end of the year. I expect that they are more likely to be in the top five than outside the top 10.

SalemPats said:

I just want to say that this is a top 10 defense that will probably finish just outside the top ten because of garbage 4th quarter points.

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I agree. So far, the Pats have been giving up roughly a touchdown a game in garbage time. Factor that in, and the Pats are only giving up 12 points a game, theoretically. I've been very impressed by our defense so far.

BobDigital said:

I don't know only guessing Just mostly trying to point out the reason they were in that game is cause Arrington played horrible and once Butler came in i don't think they allowed a point.

I we should be happy with how this defense has played. But I just don't think it should be put up there with 2014.

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See, I don't think 2014's defense was anything special. I thought they were 'adequate', and that was good enough to win - since we hadn't seen 'adequate' in a long time.

2014's defense was fine.
2015's defense, to this point, is also fine, and is playing better than last year's, especially at this point in the season.

TommyD4207 said:

See, I don't think 2014's defense was anything special. I thought they were 'adequate', and that was good enough to win - since we hadn't seen 'adequate' in a long time.

2014's defense was fine.
2015's defense, to this point, is also fine, and is playing better than last year's, especially at this point in the season.

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Not allowing a 2nd 1/2 TD in the last 6 games is as good as it gets but no question that they were not a dominant defense.

As you said 2014 D was good enough. I think the 2015 D is good enough too.

Say what you want but before the Pats game, Weeden was 7-7 with 1TD and o INT against Philly, 22-26 or 232 yards with 1 INT against the Falcons and 16-26 for 246 yards and 1TD and o INT against the saints. Against the Pats he was 26-39 for 189 yards and 1 INT. No, I don't think Weeden is any good but normally, everyone looks good against the Pats D but we actually made a bad QB look even worse! It has been years since we did that!

This entire thread is more evidence of how fantasy football has screwed things up. "Top D" is now measured by things that don't matter. It doesn't matter if the Pats are in the top 5 in yards, or points. What matters is how well the D can execute on the situational football in each game strategy that leads to a win. Paying attention to all those stats is just football porn leading to self-pleasuring by fans.

The reason fantasy football exists is that 20 of the NFL owners can't figure out how to create an organization that slowly and methodically builds excellence, and end up with the cr*p that they put on the field every week. Either than or they don't care enough because their franchises keep getting more and more valuable every regardless of how badly they manage it. Their fans search for something, anything, to give them relevance, and end up with fantasy football and get suckered into the "stars win games" mindset sold by the former players that are now talking heads on TV. Then they can't figure out why the Pats keep winning because it doesn't fit the formula, and conclude that it must be cheating.

Once again, with vigor, I encourage you to "GET OFF MY LAWN!"

OK, I feel better. Off to work. Thanks for the therapy.

mosi said:

Say what you want but before the Pats game, Weeden was 7-7 with 1TD and o INT against Philly, 22-26 or 232 yards with 1 INT against the Falcons and 16-26 for 246 yards and 1TD and o INT against the saints. Against the Pats he was 26-39 for 189 yards and 1 INT. No, I don't think Weeden is any good but normally, everyone looks good against the Pats D but we actually made a bad QB look even worse! It has been years since we did that!

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I've been thinking that the Cowboy focus on Weeden as their problem is a mistake. It lets the other players off the hook. He's been servicable. The coaching staff needs to look the players in the eye and tell them that they need to win the game with him at QB. Just get it done.

betterthanthealternative said:

I've been thinking that the Cowboy focus on Weeden as their problem is a mistake. It lets the other players off the hook. He's been servicable. The coaching staff needs to look the players in the eye and tell them that they need to win the game with him at QB. Just get it done.

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Do you agree @blueberryicedcoffee?

mosi said:

Say what you want but before the Pats game, Weeden was 7-7 with 1TD and o INT against Philly, 22-26 or 232 yards with 1 INT against the Falcons and 16-26 for 246 yards and 1TD and o INT against the saints. Against the Pats he was 26-39 for 189 yards and 1 INT. No, I don't think Weeden is any good but normally, everyone looks good against the Pats D but we actually made a bad QB look even worse! It has been years since we did that!

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I said before the game that Weeden was a functional QB. He lost his passing back. The running game is average. They don't have a reliable receiving threat outside the numbers.

Add to the fact that the Pats have a good pass and serviceable secondary the result was as expected.

They shut down anything deep, stopped the run and had a good pass rush. For any short passes they smothered the receiver. I hope people realize that while this Pats defense may not be the 85 Bear they are FAST to the ball and tackle well.

robertweathers said:

I hope people realize that while this Pats defense may not be the 85 Bear they are FAST to the ball and tackle well.

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As good as the 85 Bears were for their time, I don't think they'd hold up well to the offenses that have evolved in the past 30 years, and honestly I think the defenses today are better - faster, even stronger, and definitely more capable of dealing with variety in an offense.

betterthanthealternative said:

As good as the 85 Bears were for their time, I don't think they'd hold up well to the offenses that have evolved in the past 30 years, and honestly I think the defenses today are better - faster, even stronger, and definitely more capable of dealing with variety in an offense.

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So this is one of those philosophical discussions. Is greatness always great and can evolve or is it frozen in time?

I would agree that the 46 defense would be obsolete today. Spread offenses. 3 step drops, etc. would beat that pass rush most of the time. Brady would kill them. They had good talent in the secondary in Duarson, Fencik, Richardson and Fraizer and they had decent cover skills. The Bears front 7 was loaded with talent and devastating.

I wonder if you immersed the 85 Bears defensive talent in 2015 training and current NFL defensive schemes they would still do well.

betterthanthealternative said:

As good as the 85 Bears were for their time, I don't think they'd hold up well to the offenses that have evolved in the past 30 years, and honestly I think the defenses today are better - faster, even stronger, and definitely more capable of dealing with variety in an offense.

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Yeah, I would like to see the combine stats for Refrigerator Perry side-by-side with, say, Vince Wilfork's.
Or Mike Singletary's compared to Jamie Collins.

Pats are #1 of all teams in balance. Score of a mind-blowing 7!!

https://realfootballnetwork.com/5823/10-15-15-teams-in-balance/

Offense and defense both pulling weight together. absolute monster of a team in all aspects. LOVE IT