It's like having Darrelle Revis

supafly said:

I certainly agree with you there, no doubt about that. As far as feeling okay dealing with Aaron Rodgers, we'll just have to agree to disagree

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Just sayin, if it comes to that a lot of good things have already happened so we'll just deal with what's in front of us.

Or, put another way, the Jets do have Revis and I like our chances vs GB a lot more than the Jets.

n6249c said:

How can you possibly tell what natural athletic talent he has? He was never coached by anybody beyond juco and div 2 before reaching the Pats. He wasn't focused and disciplined until he learned from a few hard knocks. No way to tell what his true talent level is. It took quite a bit of talent to overcome that background to get where he is today. Don't sell him short just because he lacks the fancy pedigree and bigtime college exposure.

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He played for the Patriots last year. You know that, right?

Also, for the record, "natural athletic talent" is something you're born with, not something that can be coached.

It's perfectly reasonable for people to opine on his natural athletic talent.

Is he your cousin or something?

Bill Lee said:

And the schedule looking forward is Luck/Hasselbeck, Fitzpatrick, Tannehill, Cousins, Eli, Taylor, Payton, Bradford, Hoyer/Mallett, Mariota, Fitzpatrick, Tannehill. Not exactly murder's row. I'll be OK dealing with us having to deal with Rodgers if/when it comes to that. No doubt we'd feel better with Revis, but he just wasn't an option without making ourselves vulnerable in so many other places, and despite what we think, BB just wasn't going to go there.

I know. Pedigree is overrated. See Brady, Tom for a fine example. Sure, it's a confidence booster that someone can do it at a big-time school. That doesn't mean there aren't many who slipped through the cracks and won't excel in the NFL. Given we don't get the prime draft picks we should be used to our roll of not being able to scoop up pedigree college athletes.

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Tom Brady was a 2-year starter and won an Orange Bowl at Michigan, which, at the time, (and is now) a more than major program.

supafly said:

I certainly agree with you there, no doubt about that. As far as feeling okay dealing with Aaron Rodgers, we'll just have to agree to disagree

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I saw Revis against Aaron Rodgers last year. Considering Revis has lost at least half-a-step this year - I'll take my chances with the unproven cheap guy at this point.

ctpatsfan77 said:

I can't imagine a 7-year contract that the Patriots would be willing to offer and that Butler would be willing to sign.

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Fully agree. 7 year contracts are dead in todays NFL. We are in a period of shorter contracts, especially for non QBs.

Brady6 said:

Johnson – Revis covered Tate, Browner was on Johnson (who was injured) with safety help. Tate – 4 catches, 97 yards, longest 42 yards

Green – 5 catches, 81 yards, 1 touchdown, longest 35 yards
Thomas – 7 catches, 127 yards, longest 41 yards
Nelson – aside from the 45-yard touchdown catch he allowed to Nelson, Revis mainly covered Cobb – 7 catches, 85 yards
Jeffrey – 5 catches, 59 yards, 1 touchdown

The rest of the WRs you listed are far from elite, however I will note that Wallace actually performed well in both games against Revis.

Posters act like Revis shutdown every WR anymore than Butler has shut down his WRs this season.

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That's the yardage the players got all game. I've already shown you that a lot of those yards you write came when someone other than Revis was in coverage. What you are doing is taking stats from when someone else covered the player, and say that Revis didn't shut them down. So it's incredibly miss leading.

http://nesn.com/2014/12/darrelle-revis-shines-in-patriots-2014-season-long-pass-coverage-stats/

TommyD4207 said:

I saw Revis against Aaron Rodgers last year. Considering Revis has lost at least half-a-step this year - I'll take my chances with the unproven cheap guy at this point.

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The poster to whom I responded to claimed that "he'd be okay dealing with Rodgers if/when it comes to that." While I fully agree with the choice to pass on Revis, the current members of our CB corps don't exactly instill confidence against one of the sharpest QBs in the game, if we're actually being honest.

I certainly understand where you're coming from by saying "our much better group of CBs couldn't stop Rodgers last year, so may as well give the cheaper, unproven guys a chance," but one may argue that the logic is a bit flawed in that thinking.

I'm also not too sure that Revis has lost at least half a step, either. He's playing like a complete madman so far in 2015, with 3 forced fumbles, 2 interceptions, and a handful of pass breakups through four games. If anything, he may be playing the best football of his entire career, having learned some valuable lessons here in New England.

supafly said:

The poster to whom I responded to claimed that "he'd be okay dealing with Rodgers if/when it comes to that." While I fully agree with the choice to pass on Revis, the current members of our CB corps don't exactly instill confidence against one of the sharpest QBs in the game, if we're actually being honest.

I certainly understand where you're coming from by saying "our much better group of CBs couldn't stop Rodgers last year, so may as well give the cheaper, unproven guys a chance," but one may argue that the logic is a bit flawed in that thinking.

I'm also not too sure that Revis has lost at least half a step, either. He's playing like a complete madman so far in 2015, with 3 forced fumbles, 2 interceptions, and a handful of pass breakups through four games. If anything, he may be playing the best football of his entire career, having learned some valuable lessons here in New England.

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I'm assuming you've actually seen Revis play this year when you say that. If you don't think he's a half-step slower, then my TV is showing me optical illusions or something. Antonio Cromartie, to my eye, is playing his best ball of his career, and I think that has a lot to do with it.

All I know is, last year, Revis, Browner, Arrington et. al. got lit up pretty nicely by Rodgers. If it weren't for the scheme, daring Green Bay to run in the 2nd half, I'm not sure that game is a Gronkowski drop away from being a win.

This year, I'll take my chances with Butler on James Jones or Cobb or whoever. It can't be demonstrably worse than the torch job Nelson gave to Revis.

The pass rush is markedly improved over a year ago. I dunno, I'd say the chances would be about the same between last year and this year.

This is, of course, assuming Green Bay gets to the Super Bowl, and Rodgers doesn't channel his inner Manning again this year.

n6249c said:

Disagree, because I don't know how you could possibly have any real basis for defining his ceiling, other than your imagination.

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Of course it's my imagination. I'm a fan and I've never coached football in my life. Whatever I'm projecting is just my opinion. Lol.

But being a vontae Davis is a bad thing? Not everyone can be a hof player. Those are the sanders and revis. I'm much more realistic than that. Only a few guys on our team have that potential that I can see. Brady is obvious. Gronk and Collins might. They both need body of work. Butler hasn't done much. Maybe another 2 seasons of highlights and he can enter the conversation.

Marinlik said:

That's the yardage the players got all game. I've already shown you that a lot of those yards you write came when someone other than Revis was in coverage. What you are doing is taking stats from when someone else covered the player, and say that Revis didn't shut them down. So it's incredibly miss leading.

http://nesn.com/2014/12/darrelle-revis-shines-in-patriots-2014-season-long-pass-coverage-stats/

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I can start by saying those #s are all PFF and based on their interpretation of coverage.

Second it doesn't matter because the point was that having Revis did not limit these elite WRs that much, this belief that Revis eliminated the other teams #1 is false, the #1 was either moved around or the Patriots didn't feel Revis could cover him 1on1 so they preferred using another CB with help.

Brady6 said:

I can start by saying those #s are all PFF and based on their interpretation of coverage.

Second it doesn't matter because the point was that having Revis did not limit these elite WRs that much, this belief that Revis eliminated the other teams #1 is false, the #1 was either moved around or the Patriots didn't feel Revis could cover him 1on1 so they preferred using another CB with help.

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That is not PFF numbers. That is reporters looking at the play and seeing who the CB covering the WR that catches. That's more exact than your numbers by an infinite degree, as your numbers are based on just what the WR got against the whole team. You put TDs on Revis when he was on the opposite side of the field.

So when comparing Butler and Revis, which is an extremely silly thing to do coming from you who pukes if someone even mentions Garoppolo in the same message as Brady, it doesn't matter if the coverage stats that you claim are "Revis" aren't actually his coverage stats? Of course it matters. Having Revis changed how our defense could play. It allowed us to roll coverage certain ways and leave him 1vs1 in ways we couldn't before. BB defenses is not all about having one guy always following the other guy, no matter what. You should know that by now

I get it. You hate Revis because he's on the Jets. But saying he wasn't that good is just ridiculous.

All I know is that Belichick seems happy to leave Butler on an island opposite a #1 receiver. That's the same as he did w/ Revis. Doesn't mean Butler is as good as Revis (he clearly isn't), but it does mean Belichick is behaving as if Butler is at least in the same ballpark.

CB statistics are even more meaningless than most. Was there safety help? Was it a 2 against 1 situation because of some screwup by another DB? Was there a pick? Was it a blitz that never got home? How good was the opposing QB? What about the throws that never got made because the coverage was good?

Brady6 said:

No I'm not I was responding to the poster who listed all of the WRs we went up against last year. The stats show that having Revis did not shut these players out, for the most part they still produced what they normally do in a game.

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Uh huh. But what did they do against Revis? Right off the bat, I didn't take your post seriously. You inferred Browner covered Magatron all day and that was not even close to being the case. They showed replays a few times of Revis covering Johnson. Further, as we all know, Belichick didn't stick Revis on any one wideout throughout games in 2014. The CB corps would rotate onto different guys depending on the defensive gameplan and match-ups.

KontradictioN said:

Uh huh. But what did they do against Revis? Right off the bat, I didn't take your post seriously. You inferred Browner covered Magatron all day and that was not even close to being the case. They showed replays a few times of Revis covering Johnson. Further, as we all know, Belichick didn't stick Revis on any one wideout throughout games in 2014. The CB corps would rotate onto different guys depending on the defensive gameplan and match-ups.

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All I know is they're 11th in pass defense this year and they were 17th last season. Before you rebut that with QB play I will say, Cassell, Orton, G. Smith, Stafford, Cutler, aren't exactly lighting the world on fire.

Brady6 said:

All I know is they're 11th in pass defense this year and they were 17th last season. Before you rebut that with QB play I will say, Cassell, Orton, G. Smith, Stafford, Cutler, aren't exactly lighting the world on fire.

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This has what to do with your OP, exactly? The pass defense as a whole is solid. How is that relevant to you making the Revis vs. Butler case with stats that are totally out of context?

supafly said:

The poster to whom I responded to claimed that "he'd be okay dealing with Rodgers if/when it comes to that." While I fully agree with the choice to pass on Revis, the current members of our CB corps don't exactly instill confidence against one of the sharpest QBs in the game, if we're actually being honest.

I certainly understand where you're coming from by saying "our much better group of CBs couldn't stop Rodgers last year, so may as well give the cheaper, unproven guys a chance," but one may argue that the logic is a bit flawed in that thinking.

I'm also not too sure that Revis has lost at least half a step, either. He's playing like a complete madman so far in 2015, with 3 forced fumbles, 2 interceptions, and a handful of pass breakups through four games. If anything, he may be playing the best football of his entire career, having learned some valuable lessons here in New England.

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We have a pass rush that could cause some problems for Rodgers. Our secondary may not be elite, but it's not exactly a push over either. The defense should be good enough to come up with some stops vs GB. With our offense firing on all cylinders, I feel confident that will be enough for a W.

KontradictioN said:

This has what to do with your OP, exactly? The pass defense as a whole is solid. How is that relevant to you making the Revis vs. Butler case with stats that are totally out of context?

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I think you are misunderstanding my point, the reality is that Butler has done through 4 games around the same as Revis did through 4 games last season. They both faced mediocre QBs and they both allowed some big plays but overall they did enough to hold the WR in check.

TommyD4207 said:

I'm assuming you've actually seen Revis play this year when you say that. If you don't think he's a half-step slower, then my TV is showing me optical illusions or something.

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I think he's played just as well if not better, than he did through the first four games with New England.

It's difficult to argue against 3 forced fumbles, 2 interceptions, and 3-4 pass breakups through the first 25% of the season.

I think the NYJ regret this deal in 2017 on, but I don't see any reason why they shouldn't get at least two solid seasons from him. I don't think too much has changed from the spring, when he was a member of our team. You may see it differently.