It's like having Darrelle Revis

mgteich · Oct 12, 2015

We should stop comparing Butler to Revis. We should try to extend him before the cost is too high.

RobertWeathers · Oct 12, 2015

Since the game vs the Steelers Malcolm is 4comp 10 att, 2 TD 4 PBUs an INT and a 83 Qb rating against.

Hes trending downward. Granted there was nowhere to go but down.

Triumph · Oct 12, 2015

venecol said:
Smith Sr. ate his lunch (playoffs).

Not really.

Smith caught 3 balls for 44 yards and 1 TD and then Revis erased him.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000456461/article/revis-on-steve-smith-after-td-he-got-erased

Bobsyouruncle · Oct 12, 2015

Triumph said:
Not really.

Smith caught 3 balls for 44 yards and 1 TD and then Revis erased him.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000456461/article/revis-on-steve-smith-after-td-he-got-erased

And Revis committed several penalties. He played poorly that game. Revis' bluster about erasing after that performance is just childish.

condon84 · Oct 12, 2015

Butler is an average #1 CB. Nothing great, but not awful. He would be a solid #2 if we had a legit #1 CB.

50-yard-line · Oct 12, 2015

Tom_Montana12 said:
I know for a fact that Green didn't score his TD on Revis, so I'm just gonna assume the rest of those numbers are incorrect as well.

And in regards to that last sentence - it's because it's true. No WR had the success Antonio Brown had against Butler this year.

I watched the Pitt game the day after, on tape, and played particular attention to the Brown v. Butler duel, after reading about it here. Here's what I posted in my recap - culling out just the pertinent posts:

First drive: Brown has two catches, both BEHIND the line of scrimmage, one for an 8-yard loss.

Amazing catch by Brown, with GREAT coverage by Butler - omg, what a catch! Brown 3-for-3 so far, but Butler's been there perfectly.

4-for-4 - Butler out there alone with 2 receivers and picked on a quick slant.

Great coverage 1-on-1 by Butler on Brown to end the drive. Blanketing him. I'm surprised that BB is letting him go 1-on-1 with Brown in a third down situation. Amazing.

Another bubble screen to Brown - played perfectly by Butler for a big hit. Brown is like 5-for-6 at this point, but four of them have been at or behind the LOS, and the 5th was a simply unbelievable catch against perfect coverage.

And then Brown just beats Butler for a 37-yard bomb - Butler didn't get a jam on him from the slot position.

Double move, Brown beats Butler for 33.

Brown on a crossing pattern gets open...nice pass. Butler got picked a bit by Fletcher.

Ben hits Brown - good coverage by Butler, but well-executed.

Can't believe Brown caught that TD against Butler...how did Butler miss that ball? Lol.

Recap: People who thought Butler played badly are just wrong. You wouldn't put many on Brown 1-v-1, especially with Bryant and Bell out, but they did.

He got beat twice for a total of 70 yards, but the other 7 completions were an AMAZING catch under great coverage, a TD that Butler just whiffed on while having great coverage, two crossing routes well-executed and a bunch of bubble screens. I'll take it.

He's not Revis, no, but Antonio Brown didn't abuse him, either. Of his first 5 catches, four were behind the line or pick plays that Revis wouldn't have stopped, either, and the 5th was one of the most incredible catches I've seen - one announcer described it like a video game glitch where both avatars are occupying the same space. That one and the end-zone catch with .02 left...

Brown legitimately burned Butler twice. Antonio Brown can legitimately burn any but the very top corners in the league twice in any game with Ben throwing him the ball. The guy is insanely good, and BB
thought enough of butler to put him out there and let him take his lumps.

The only corners I've ever seen that I'll compare to Revis in his prime are Mike Haynes and Primetime, with honorable mention to Ty Law. Revis is just that good.

But Brady6's points are true, too - I've watched the Jets this year and people aren't throwing much at Revis (they've played crap, so take that for what it's worth), but he's grabbing on every play. He's still probably top-5, maybe top-3, but you can see the wear starting...and he had a hammy issue.

Tom_Montana12 · Oct 12, 2015

50-yard-line said:
I watched the Pitt game the day after, on tape, and played particular attention to the Brown v. Butler duel, after reading about it here. Here's what I posted in my recap - culling out just the pertinent posts:

He's not Revis, no, but Antonio Brown didn't abuse him, either. Of his first 5 catches, four were behind the line or pick plays that Revis wouldn't have stopped, either, and the 5th was one of the most incredible catches I've seen - one announcer described it like a video game glitch where both avatars are occupying the same space. That one and the end-zone catch with .02 left...

Brown legitimately burned Butler twice. Antonio Brown can legitimately burn any but the very top corners in the league twice in any game with Ben throwing him the ball. The guy is insanely good, and BB
thought enough of butler to put him out there and let him take his lumps.

The only corners I've ever seen that I'll compare to Revis in his prime are Mike Haynes and Primetime, with honorable mention to Ty Law. Revis is just that good.

But Brady6's points are true, too - I've watched the Jets this year and people aren't throwing much at Revis (they've played crap, so take that for what it's worth), but he's grabbing on every play. He's still probably top-5, maybe top-3, but you can see the wear starting...and he had a hammy issue.

My point wasn't that Butler isn't good. He's definitely good with a lot of potential for growth. My point was Revis was a top 2 cornerback in the league last year and that trying to downplay Revis's overall importance to our defense last year by showcasing stats doesn't paint the whole picture. Like I said, I know for a fact that AJ Green's lone TD against us last year wasn't against Revis. Meaning some of the stats that Brady6 posted are completely irrelevant. I mean sure, there were 1 or 2 games last year where Revis didn't play up to his all-time standards, but trying to say that he wasn't absolutely elite last year is dumb.

Triumph · Oct 12, 2015

Bobsyouruncle said:
And Revis committed several penalties. He played poorly that game. Revis' bluster about erasing after that performance is just childish.

3 receptions for 44 yards seems like a bad game for Smith.

He caught a TD and was basically invisible after that.

Angelpats · Oct 12, 2015

At this point in their careers and their salary cap hits. I would take Butler. All dbs get burned every once in a while. Butler competes with the best of them. I don't get where some are saying he doesn't have speed. He ran a 4.4 40 at his patriots tryout so he has the speed to compare with these elite dbs. He can be elite and I think he will become one. I don't think these other elite dbs could have clinched our Super Bowl the way butler did. Revis was beaten for a td.

BradyFTW! · Oct 12, 2015

condon84 said:
Butler is an average #1 CB. Nothing great, but not awful. He would be a solid #2 if we had a legit #1 CB.

I agree with this assessment, but it should not be construed as a bad thing. Dude was an UDFA last year who up until the Super Bowl was fourth on the depth chart. For him to be even an adequate #1 right now is pretty awesome.

Bill Lee · Oct 13, 2015

Strange thread here. Starts with a mis-quote then devolves from there...

Basically the comment was that the Patriots are using the same strategy now that they used to use when Revis was here and are still getting good results. It was a correct point in the context of that particular game. It never said anything about Butler being as good as Revis, or almost as good as Revis, etc.

Sadly it's pretty predictable that any mention of Revis here results in wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Face it, Revis came here and got his ring. Both sides were happy with the transaction. Now he's playing for the pond scum Jets and chances are great that he and Ryan Fitzpatrick will be playing golf whilst the Patriots are getting good results from Butler and whomever else plays CB for the NEP. Let's not get diaper rash over the fact that Revis wanted every penny on the dollar.

Bill just doesn't go out of his way to get freakishly talented CBs, nor WRs either. If a great short term rental shows up he's all over it, but overall he prefers to use his resources on other things and the results are outsanding. The pattern is as clear as it could be, IMHO.

supafly · Oct 13, 2015

BradyFTW! said:
I agree with this assessment, but it should not be construed as a bad thing. Dude was an UDFA last year who up until the Super Bowl was fourth on the depth chart. For him to be even an adequate #1 right now is pretty awesome.

I too, agree that he'd be a solid CB2, but I'm not sure that I'd even call him an "average" CB1 just yet, either. He's a CB1 who is continuing to show progress and grow into his role.

We could do a lot worse, and your comment about getting this much production from an UDFA is spot on, but it seems as though some here are going a bit overboard of their praise (IMO).

supafly · Oct 13, 2015

Bill Lee said:
Basically the comment was that the Patriots are using the same strategy now that they used to use when Revis was here and are still getting good results.

Tyrod Taylor, Brandon Weeden, and Blake Bortles will tend to help that cause, but yes---I agree with you that it's been effective so far.

n6249c · Oct 13, 2015

nabwong said:
I think Butler's ceiling is not HOF but the 2nd tier of above average and dependable like Vontae Davis. I am totally fine with that. If he proves me wrong and becomes a HOF, even better.

Disagree, because I don't know how you could possibly have any real basis for defining his ceiling, other than your imagination.

n6249c · Oct 13, 2015

strngplyr said:
This will be the Achilles heel for a guy like Butler, he "gets" the game for the most part and he has a short-term memory that few CBs possess.

He's also tougher than most CB's I've seen, he loves to hit people, even running backs with 30lbs on him.

His pure athletic talent will be what keeps him from being as good as others, but his future is certainly bright, he's still incredibly young in the NFL and just gets better each practice, but he WILL have a ceiling below the best and he will get beat at times.

How can you possibly tell what natural athletic talent he has? He was never coached by anybody beyond juco and div 2 before reaching the Pats. He wasn't focused and disciplined until he learned from a few hard knocks. No way to tell what his true talent level is. It took quite a bit of talent to overcome that background to get where he is today. Don't sell him short just because he lacks the fancy pedigree and bigtime college exposure.

supafly · Oct 13, 2015

n6249c said:
Disagree, because I don't know how you could possibly have any real basis for defining his ceiling, other than your imagination.

Yes, we have no idea how talented or not Butler will be. It's been four games with poor QBs in 3/4 so far, and even then he's been average--although he seems to be consistently showing good improvement.

He could be Asante Samuel, he could be Ellis Hobbs, he could be McCourty year one, he could be McCourty year two. He could be someone in between all 4 examples. Either way, he's proven to have value as an UDFA, but there's also way too small of a sample size to draw much from just yet.

I do think it's safe to say that he doesn't suck, and that something can be built upon.

ausbacker · Oct 13, 2015

This shouldn't be construed as a bad thing. Reputation means a lot. If people think Butler is a shutdown corner with Revis-like capabilities, the perception will begin to build and some of his opponents may begin to believe it (especially if he continues to improve).

FTR, I understood the context of the comment but it's nice to see the Pats D getting some well deserved recognition. If they hadn't allowed junk-time scores against Buffalo and Pittsburgh, the for/against would be ridiculous.

n6249c · Oct 13, 2015

supafly said:
Yes, we have no idea how talented or not Butler will be. It's been four games with poor QBs in 3/4 so far, and even then he's been average--although he seems to be consistently showing good improvement.

He could be Asante Samuel, he could be Ellis Hobbs, he could be McCourty year one, he could be McCourty year two. He could be someone in between all 4 examples. Either way, he's proven to have value as an UDFA, but there's also way too small of a sample size to draw much from just yet.

I do think it's safe to say that he doesn't suck, and that something can be built upon.

He is a work in progress, and seems to be working hard at getting better. If he continues to do that for the next few years it is not inconceivable he could merit comparison as a peer of Revis. Time will tell. It will be fun to watch, and root for him.

Bill Lee · Oct 13, 2015

supafly said:
Tyrod Taylor, Brandon Weeden, and Blake Bortles will tend to help that cause, but yes---I agree with you that it's been effective so far.

And the schedule looking forward is Luck/Hasselbeck, Fitzpatrick, Tannehill, Cousins, Eli, Taylor, Payton, Bradford, Hoyer/Mallett, Mariota, Fitzpatrick, Tannehill. Not exactly murder's row. I'll be OK dealing with us having to deal with Rodgers if/when it comes to that. No doubt we'd feel better with Revis, but he just wasn't an option without making ourselves vulnerable in so many other places, and despite what we think, BB just wasn't going to go there.

n6249c said:
Don't sell him short just because he lacks the fancy pedigree and bigtime college exposure.

I know. Pedigree is overrated. See Brady, Tom for a fine example. Sure, it's a confidence booster that someone can do it at a big-time school. That doesn't mean there aren't many who slipped through the cracks and won't excel in the NFL. Given we don't get the prime draft picks we should be used to our roll of not being able to scoop up pedigree college athletes.

supafly · Oct 13, 2015

Bill Lee said:
No doubt we'd feel better with Revis, but he just wasn't an option without making ourselves vulnerable in so many other places, and despite what we think, BB just wasn't going to go there.

I certainly agree with you there, no doubt about that. As far as feeling okay dealing with Aaron Rodgers, we'll just have to agree to disagree

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