Malcom Brown

3 games into his rookie season playing about 31% of the snaps in the D line rotation, and judgement is passed???

Give him some time...

RayClay said:

Do you have change of a penny?

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Yeah, it's pretty silly to be ranking rookies in September.

rookBoston said:

Except it. Accept it.

Wilfork started slow. Seymour started slow too.

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Seymour did not start slow. He was a terror even in the pre-season....it was just that the media did not notice him until later. Vince did start slow; good size and bulk but out of position and walled off on many plays. Same for Brown, but I am pretty sure he will come around.

I have no concerns with Brown eventually being a star for us.

That being said, Brown isn't ready now. If that were not so, it would be difficult to understand what Belichick has allocated 12 positions to healthy defensive linemen. 9 healthy defensive linemen is usually plenty, plus one on the PUP list.

FredFromDartmouth said:

Seymour did not start slow. He was a terror even in the pre-season....it was just that the media did not notice him until later. Vince did start slow; good size and bulk but out of position and walled off on many plays. Same for Brown, but I am pretty sure he will come around.

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At the start of the season, Sey was battling a little bit of a leg injury and as a result missed a few games.

With that said, he did start a little "slow" but was productive and better than VW was in his rookie year by a wide margin.

Malcom Brown still has time I think we are still waiting for Dominique Easley to breakout!

mgteich said:

I have no concerns with Brown eventually being a star for us.

That being said, Brown isn't ready now. If that were not so, it would be difficult to understand what Belichick has allocated 12 positions to healthy defensive linemen. 9 healthy defensive linemen is usually plenty, plus one on the PUP list.

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Isn't ready is a terrible term to describe a player who is in the rotation...if he wasn't ready he wouldn't be playing PERIOD!

FredFromDartmouth said:

Seymour did not start slow. He was a terror even in the pre-season....it was just that the media did not notice him until later. Vince did start slow; good size and bulk but out of position and walled off on many plays. Same for Brown, but I am pretty sure he will come around.

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As I mentioned in another thread, it seems to me that DT is a position where it is particularly difficult for rookies to dominate (only two DT defensive rookies of the year in the last 20 years, Donald and Suh), and I can think of several DT that were labeled "busts" after their first year or two that became top players later (Dareus, Poe). Only really transcendent defensive linemen seem to play great as a rookie, Donald appears to be such a player and Suh was in his first few years certainly. And, Seymour was, although in the 3-4. In contrast, sometimes young fast 4-3 DE's and 3-4 OLB's can come in and fly around the edge for bunches of sacks and make more of an impact as a rookie.

Getting a player like Seymour would be too good to be true, if Brown turned out to be at the Vince Wilfork level that would be worth a happy dance, even that may be too high of an expectation, Vince was a great one.

mgteich said:

I have no concerns with Brown eventually being a star for us.

That being said, Brown isn't ready now. If that were not so, it would be difficult to understand what Belichick has allocated 12 positions to healthy defensive linemen. 9 healthy defensive linemen is usually plenty, plus one on the PUP list.

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Thats where I am as well.

I've seen enough of Malcom Brown that I feel pretty confident that he will be a very good player for this team. How good I don't know but he certainly won't be a horrific bust.

Clearly BB sees enough ability in him to contribute today. We do not know if the coaching staff has concerns about his progression of improving technique or just picking up additional aspects of the defense. If they do that would explain why the team added two DTs to the 53.

If they are OK with his development and projected progress then I am clueless to why they have 6 DTs.

PatsFan2 said:

Isn't ready is a terrible term to describe a player who is in the rotation...if he wasn't ready he wouldn't be playing PERIOD!

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Unless the other players at the position also aren't ready. Joe Vellano played a ton in 2013 and he was a steaming pile of crap. He wasn't ready. Frankly, he'll never be ready.

Dobson and KT sure as hell weren't ready in 2013 either.

Concussion Protocol said:

Unless the other players at the position also aren't ready. Joe Vellano played a ton in 2013 and he was a steaming pile of crap. He wasn't ready. Frankly, he'll never be ready.

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When VW went down, Vellano played out of necessity. They were hoping he would become the next Mike Wright or Jarvis Green. Didn't happen obviously.

Concussion Protocol said:

Dobson and KT sure as hell weren't ready in 2013 either.

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I disagree. They both produced pretty well as rookies. If they weren't ready they wouldn't have played.

robertweathers said:

When VW went down, Vellano played out of necessity. They were hoping he would become the next Mike Wright or Jarvis Green. Didn't happen obviously.



I disagree. They both produced pretty well as rookies. If they weren't ready they wouldn't have played.

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KT is barely able to stay employed in the league. He had no business being a starting WR in the NFL, especially as a rookie. He clearly has his fans around here, but we'll just have to disagree on him.

DT is one of the toughest positions to adapt to from college to the pros.

Concussion Protocol said:

KT is barely able to stay employed in the league. He had no business being a starting WR in the NFL, especially as a rookie. He clearly has his fans around here, but we'll just have to disagree on him.

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I am not a KT fanboy.

Your assertion was that neither KT or Dobson were ready in 2013.

The fact is that they both produced which by default means that they were ready for the role the team had for them in mind.

Saying that they aren't NFL players or not good enough to be on the team is a different discussion.

robertweathers said:

I am not a KT fanboy.

Your assertion was that neither KT or Dobson were ready in 2013.

The fact is that they both produced which by default means that they were ready for the role the team had for them in mind.

Saying that they aren't NFL players or not good enough to be on the team is a different discussion.

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Every player has "produced" something at some point. That's an incredibly generic term. Vellano made some tackles, Devey made some blocks, Aiken made some accurate snaps, KT caught some balls. They all "produced". They were ready to play poorly, so yes, they were ready.

Ty Warren may have played about five snaps his rookie season. VW alternated with a 70 year old Keith Traylor, and while athletic, was a liability much of the time. Sey started but was far from Sey and he's going in Canton. Rookie DL types (excluding 43 ends) who see significant playing time typically turn out ok for the Pats. Expectations should be set at zero until year two. Anything over that is a nice bonus.

Gronkowski123 said:

profootballfocus has brown as one of the worst rookies for whatever that's worth.

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Let me tell you what it's worth, nothing.

Jlaff said:

I've been conditioned to try and find the angle with any FredfromDartmouth thread...

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That's because FRED always tries to find something to knock the Patriots on and turn out into a thread.

BB himself actually commented on this when someone in the press said you cannot tell if a player is any good until year two. His dry, laconic answer was, "You could tell Lawrence Taylor was pretty good right away."

MB must have shown something in camp because he started at DT in the first game...but then was pulled because he got trapped out of position on almost every running play.

Concussion Protocol said:

Every player has "produced" something at some point. That's an incredibly generic term. Vellano made some tackles, Devey made some blocks, Aiken made some accurate snaps, KT caught some balls. They all "produced". They were ready to play poorly, so yes, they were ready.

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You keep using "played poorly" to make you point and that is not the case. It's more than that.

As a player, there are two facets that influence their employment. You either produce positive results and/or negative results. For players who produce positive and negative results are evaluated and potentially moved out or upgraded. For players that produce negative results are gone.

The other scenario is that there are also players that don't perform to the expectation level that the position or what the team needs or requires is more accurate and another player is better or a better fit for the scheme.

KT produced here. Other receivers are better and that is why he is gone. If the Pats had a rash of injuries at WR he'd be catching passes from Brady right now. On the flip side, if he dropped 9 of 10 passes thrown to him or ran the wrong routes all the time he'd be gone.