OT: The Brady-McDaniels connection is the most underrated relationship in the Patriots organization

Armchair Quarterback said:

Once again, JMD did indeed prove to be mediocre (and that's a generous description) during his stints with Denver and St. Louis, BB won 2 SB's as coordinator - therefore not the same exact thing. You can carry on this foolishness without me.

Click to expand...

After Bill won 2 SB's as a coordinator he went on to be the head coach for the Cleveland Browns, his stint their was mediocre. As I said earlier Bill and Josh were elite coordinators that went on to have a mediocre head coaching stint, I don't see what you're trying to say at all.

glm said:

After Bill won 2 SB's as a coordinator he went on to be the head coach for the Cleveland Browns, his stint their was mediocre. As I said earlier Bill and Josh were elite coordinators that went on to have a mediocre head coaching stint, I don't see what you're trying to say at all.

Click to expand...

McDaniels has never been successful anywhere else, in any capacity. BB has. Even BBs "bad" years in Cleveland he got to the playoffs and won. He's won rings on a team as a DC, for a team known for defense. His game plan is in the HOF. All before he ever met Brady.

Brady has had 3 OCs, all three had good offenses. The offense was good before he was here, and after he left.

Whether McDaniels is any better than the other two, or anyone else is a mystery, because he hasn't shown it elsewhere. Maybe one day he will but anyone who says he will is just guessing.

I don't believe anyone doesn't understand the above, unless they're trying really hard to not understand it. And some people obviously are.

Patriots 2001 Final Roster (Offensive skill players) ..........averaged 23 points/game

Quarterbacks

• 11 Drew Bledsoe
• 12 Tom Brady ..................not much asked of neophyte QB
• 19 Damon Huard

Running Backs

• 44 Marc Edwards FB
• 33 Kevin Faulk
• 35 Patrick Pass FB/KR
• 21 J. R. Redmond
• 32 Antowain Smith ..........reclamation

Wide Receivers

• 80 Troy Brown PR........over achiever/binky
• 84 Fred Coleman
• 15 Jimmy Farris UR
• 81 Charles Johnson
• 86 David Patten ...............former kick return specialist given WR responsibilities in NE

Tight Ends

• 48 Arther Love R
• 83 Rod Rutledge
• 85 Jermaine Wiggins

Look at this list and ask how Weiss squeezed 23 points weekly out of this motley/ recast / neophyte crew. And remember, Charlie Weiss offenses were near perfect on opening drives......that's amazing coaching. And Charlie Weiss play calling got NE in position to win at the end of 3 SB games.
And.......give Charlie a little talent (Dillon) and a more mature QB (2004)....and that offense was unstoppable and closed out game after game with ball control brut force. He always worked magic with the tools he was given. And lets not forget who trained TB on his march to GOAT.

Bobsyouruncle said:

McDaniels has never been successful anywhere else. BB has. Even BBs "bad" years in Ckeveland he got to the playoffs and won. He's won rings on a team as a DC, for a team known for defense. His game plan is in the HOF. All before he ever met Brady.

Brady has had 3 OCs, all three had good offenses. The offense was good before he was here, and after he left.

Whether McDaniels is any better than the other two, or anyone else is a mystery, because he hasn't shown it.

I don't believe anyone doesn't understand the above, unless they're trying really hard to not understand it. And some people obviously are.

Click to expand...

I dunno. You might be right, but what does any of that have to do with Brady and McD clicking together? McDaniels is Brady's favorite, and most successful offensive coordinator that he's had in his career, and they both seem to have a solid, dynamic relationship when it comes to game-planning and other essentials. At least give McDaniels credit for that

borg said:

Patriots 2001 Final Roster (Offensive skill players) ..........averaged 23 points/game

Quarterbacks

• 11 Drew Bledsoe
• 12 Tom Brady ..................not much asked of neophyte QB
• 19 Damon Huard

Running Backs

• 44 Marc Edwards FB
• 33 Kevin Faulk
• 35 Patrick Pass FB/KR
• 21 J. R. Redmond
• 32 Antowain Smith ..........reclamation

Wide Receivers

• 80 Troy Brown PR........over achiever/binky
• 84 Fred Coleman
• 15 Jimmy Farris UR
• 81 Charles Johnson
• 86 David Patten ...............former kick return specialist given WR responsibilities in NE

Tight Ends

• 48 Arther Love R
• 83 Rod Rutledge
• 85 Jermaine Wiggins

Look at this list and ask how Weiss squeezed 23 points weekly out of this motley/ recast / neophyte crew. And remember, Charlie Weiss offenses were near perfect on opening drives......that's amazing coaching. And Charlie Weiss play calling got NE in position to win at the end of 3 SB games.
And.......give Charlie a little talent (Dillon) and a more mature QB (2004)....and that offense was unstoppable and closed out game after game with ball control brut force. He always worked magic with the tools he was given. And lets not forget who trained TB on his march to GOAT.

Click to expand...

In 2001, the Pats had 5 INTs returned for TDs and 2 punts returned for TDs. You take those points out of the total and the Pats scored 20.8 PPG on offense that year. Also, the Pats scored 38 points and 44 points vs Indy that skews the year totals. Again, the defense carried the offense that year.

Chiuba E. Obele said:

I dunno. You might be right, but what does any of that have to do with Brady and McD clicking together? McDaniels is Brady's favorite, and most successful offensive coordinator that he's had in his career, and they both seem to have a solid, dynamic relationship when it comes to game-planning and other essentials. At least give McDaniels credit for that

Click to expand...

It's just an opportunity to bash the OC.

That's a sport here.

Rob0729 said:

In 2001, the Pats had 5 INTs returned for TDs and 2 punts returned for TDs. You take those points out of the total and the Pats scored 20.8 PPG on offense that year. Also, the Pats scored 38 points and 44 points vs Indy that skews the year totals. Again, the defense carried the offense that year.

Click to expand...

#6 in points in 2001
#10 in 2002
#12 in 2003
#4 in 2004.
3 Trophies as a result of outscoring every playoff opponent.
WEISSSSSSSSSSSS !!!!!!!!
Undefeated vs every playoff opponent 2001-04 .......10-0
WEISSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!

What's McDaniels' playoff record?

Note...NE's failure in 2002 was partially due to a defense that gave up 74 more points in '02 vs '01. Weiss' O improved 10 points.....WEISSSSSSSS!!!!!

As opposed to

Deus Irae said:

It's just an opportunity to bash the OC.

That's a sport here.

Click to expand...

As opposed to those posters that make a sports career out of bashing the HC?

Chiuba E. Obele said:

I dunno. You might be right, but what does any of that have to do with Brady and McD clicking together? McDaniels is Brady's favorite, and most successful offensive coordinator that he's had in his career, and they both seem to have a solid, dynamic relationship when it comes to game-planning and other essentials. At least give McDaniels credit for that

Click to expand...

I think McD is a good OC, and I think continuity is important. Had Brady worked his whole career with BOB, or Weiss would they be just as good or better? Don't know.

OK, let me make sure I've got this...

McDaniels' success doesn't count because he had Brady as his QB.
Brady's success doesn't count because he had Belichick as his coach, and is a "system QB."
Belichick is nothing without Brady (and before that he was nothing without Lawrence Taylor)

Incredibly, the Patriots have put together one of the greatest stretches of success in NFL history without anybody being any good!

AFAIK every true dynasty the NFL has ever seen has come with the combination of a hall of fame quarterback and a hall of fame coach. They're a team.

borg said:

#6 in points in 2001
#10 in 2002
#12 in 2003
#4 in 2004.
3 Trophies as a result of outscoring every playoff opponent.
WEISSSSSSSSSSSS !!!!!!!!
Undefeated vs every playoff opponent 2001-04 .......10-0
WEISSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!

What's McDaniels' playoff record?

Note...NE's failure in 2002 was partially due to a defense that gave up 74 more points in '02 vs '01. Weiss' O improved 10 points.....WEISSSSSSSS!!!!!

Click to expand...

Again, #6 in points in 2001 is misleading. You take away the points scored defense and special teams (7 TDs or 9.4% of the total points scored by the Patriots that year), they are in the 13/14 range.

Also in 2003. the Pats again had 5 INTs returned for TDs, 1 forced fumble returns, and one kick return for TD (10% of the total points scored by the Pats that year). You take out the defensive and special teams TDs and they are in the 20s.

DEFENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DEFENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Weis was a very good, but vastly overrated offensive coordinator. People were calling for him to be fired before 2004.

And I won't go into McDaniels' rankings in points scored as the OC of the New England Patriots because you will just dismiss it as the talent at receiver (although I would suggest you look at the receiving corps in 2006 and 2013 and where the Pats finished on offense before you make that point) even though McDaniels never had a season where the defense and special teams scored 7 TDs to increase his overall points scored totals (Weis had at least two and I have checked the other years).

And don't give me the playoff record stuff because that is a total team effort not just the offense. Weis didn't shut down the Greatest Show on Turf and the offensive gameplan from that game isn't on display in the Hall of Fame. And McDaniels' coaching didn't make David Tyree catch the ball with his helmet.

patchick said:

OK, let me make sure I've got this...

McDaniels' success doesn't count because he had Brady as his QB.
Brady's success doesn't count because he had Belichick as his coach, and is a "system QB."
Belichick is nothing without Brady (and before that he was nothing without Lawrence Taylor)

Incredibly, the Patriots have put together one of the greatest stretches of success in NFL history without anybody being any good!

AFAIK every true dynasty the NFL has ever seen has come with the combination of a hall of fame quarterback and a hall of fame coach. They're a team.

Click to expand...

No McDaniels' success doesn't count because he has always had stud receivers. Like in 2013 where Gronk missed almost the entire season, Hernandez was arrested for murder, Amendola played the year with a torn groin, Dobson and Thompkins as rookies started the second game of the season, and Michael Hoomanawanui was the starting TE for 12 games. With all that awesomeness at receivers, the best McDaniels could do is get the Pats to 3rd in scoring and 7th in yards. And for full disclosure, the Pats had two INTs, 1 forced fumble, and no punt or kick returns returned for TDs that season.

Anyone who is a McDaniels hater or wants to dismiss his accomplishments compared to Weis always point to 2007 and last year as if McDaniels has always had tons of receivers to work with. He had several years where he worked with as little or less than Weis. Hell, in 2006 with no receivers, the Pats were 7th in scoring (and the Pats only had one defensive or special teams TD) and 11th in yards.