Belichick has discovered a new pot of gold…

Fencer said:

It's nothing new -- that was pretty much the story behind Mike Vrabel as well, or in a recent form Rob Ninkovich.

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Ninkovich has to be the last man standing from the days when the Patriots would rescue natural 3-4 players from the scrap heap of the more common 4-3. Funny how that's turned 180°.

I sometimes wonder whether we overrate BB's acquisition of under-the-radar players. Other teams do it too, after all. And while I can't name many examples, that's kind of the point of being under the radar.

well...obviously ONE player STILL under the radar, since I see no mention of him, is MY Danny...

You forgot Akeem Ayers. Helped us win a Super Bowl last year.

RayClay said:

Agree that he is replacing ideal draft position with extra intense scouting.

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Agree. I would phrase it as extended post-draft scouting

Do not pay attention to other SB winning teams as much as I should, but find it amazing every year how much roster turnover there is and how we continue to stay this "competitive".. I think I heard this team has 20 new players on the roster..

This team stays this good, because they are constantly rebuilding this roster and tinkering with all positions and it happens without missing a beat. Never hear they that this is a "rebuilding year", it is built and continual remodeling..

XLIX said:

I think they should put him in on goal line situations......

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As of 2011, he was still playing.

FreeTedWilliams said:

There is a ton of bad coaching going on in the NFL, Thursday Night was a prime example. BB attention to detail and no nonsense approach works for guys who are football first.

great coaches find out what you do well and put you in a situation to do just that. instead of trying to fit a player into their system.

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I think this can never be underestimated and is why BB continually takes chances with troubled players, because more often than not, those players will change their ways when integrated into a very solid system like the Patriots organization, with a very clearly defined hierarchy in that BB is an unquestioned authority and will never be undermined, or otherwise interfered with by a favoritism owner (see: Cleveland & Manziel).

Putting people and players in a position where they can succeed makes all the difference in the world, as far as attitude and disposition adjustment, than if you put them in a position where they're continually trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

So many things we can take away from this organization for real-world application.

:Let's make no mistakes here. None of these guys mentioned have been hidden away against their will by evil coaches who wanted them to fail. The bad news is that ALL these players cited in the OP have shown serious flaws with their previous teams. Their fall from grace is more complicated than just a scheme change or a coaching change. The fact is that none of them were playing that well.

The good news is that they all have enough physical skill to plays a decent role here......IF they can overcome whatever it was that kept them from their highest potential. Often, the realization that their own team no longer wanted them and the were traded for a back of socks can reinvigorate a player's motivation. Let's look at what these guys COULD be, if all goes well.

Bostic- IIRC he had the fastest LB time that year, plus a sub 7 second 3 cone shows plus rated athleticism. He is ideally suited to be a coverage LB who can blitz on occasion. For now he works as a back up for Collins and on ST''s While here he will need to focus more on his assignments, take good angles, and be more reliable.

Hicks - We need his size (324-345 depending on what you hear). But he also has a combination of a quick first step, and height that is rare,. He was clearly a developmental player coming into the league, but looked like he was developing quite well his first 2 years. It will be interesting to find out what exactly happened

Williams - This guy is likely the surest bet. Eventually he might be an OT, but for right now he is a perfect #3 TE. He eliminates the need to use a 3rd OT for the position, and offers a little receiving ability. He's already established a role and is getting regular snaps in the 3 TE formations.

Williams shows best how BB is always working the roster. He already had a decent, reliable guy at the position and essentially upgraded him, getting a bigger stronger blocker with equal hands, while giving up some speed. It's not a big move, but it's a move that makes it a better team

Martin - I know almost nothing about him except looking at his combine number, which were decent. In the TD catch I got a sense of a Deion Branch vibe in him. Did anyone else see that? I will suspect that he's here to get the opportunity to return punts and kicks, so Julian and DA won't have to. After that he's holding a place for La Fell.

In the end BB managed to add 4 fully qualified NFL players in the primes of their careers. If one works out its a victory. I wouldn't be surprised if 3 end up being significant contributors with regular roles. An AWESOME job by the personnel department and all we gave up are some late 3rd day picks that are going to be replaced by comp picks that might be better.

Best thread of the year.

Fencer said:

I sometimes wonder whether we overrate BB's acquisition of under-the-radar players. Other teams do it too, after all. And while I can't name many examples, that's kind of the point of being under the radar.

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There's plenty of truth in that, but Belichick finds specific efficient tactics for maneuvering the personnel landscape and then mines them vastly more than other teams. In past years his specialty was draft day trades into the future, with the effect of upgrading picks -- the Patriots did that more than the other 31 teams put together.

Right now trading late picks for young players entering the final year of their rookie deal seems to be the chosen tactic. You net a young player entering his prime who's more valued than the players out on the street, and the cost averages out to essentially nothing once comp picks are factored in.

It's too bad the Dolphins are in our division. They're probably ripe for the pickings tradewise, and Belichick trading with Tanenbaum is probably the greatest GM mismatch imaginable.

Stephen Neal is another earlier example

Some stats on Trader Bill from Mike Reiss:

From July 31 to Oct. 2 this year, there were 30 trades in the NFL. Over the same span last year, there were just 10 trades (with the Patriots accounting for four of them).
...
Since Belichick became coach of the Patriots in 2000, the team has made 110 trades -- an even split of 55 on draft day, and the other 55 not during the draft. That's an average of 6.8 trades per season over his 16-year tenure.

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Brady6 said:

It is 2-3 year old draft classes…

Over the past few years Belichick has signed a number of players who either entered the NFL to soon, have been underdeveloped since entering the NFL for reasons outside their control, or entered from a small school with lower competition. These players have all spent time of bad football teams, and were not NFL ready during the first 2-3 years in the NFL.

I have to assume Belichick scouts these young players during the draft and labels them not NFL ready but keeps a target on them with the intent of getting his hands on them when they really should be drafted into the NFL. Essentially these players are getting the development they did not receive in college at the NFL level.

• Dion Lewis – entered the NFL after his sophomore season at the age of 20.

• Rufus Johnson – went Tarleton and he was on the 4th player ever to be drafted by an NFL team from there.

• Sealver Siliga – entered the NFL after his junior season at the age of 20.

• Akiem Hicks – was on the 9th Canadian Interuniversity Sport player drafted by an NFL team.

• Jon Bostic – was drafted by the Bears at just 20 years old after entering college a year early.

• Mike Williams – was drafted by the Lions at 21 years old and asked to change positions to OL.

• Keshawn Martin – was drafted by the Texans and played behind Johnson and Hopkins with 7 different QBs starting during his tenure in Houston.

This is why we can overcome UFA losses, and Goodell taking all of our draft picks away, because Belichick finds talent that others fail to notice.

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I'll echo what others have said and tell you that this is a great thread. And I agree.

Jonathan Casillas was all over the field yesterday for the Giants. He played a great game, including ST. I think BB saved/rejuvenated his career.

That's got to feel good.

Brady6 said:

It is 2-3 year old draft classes…

Over the past few years Belichick has signed a number of players who either entered the NFL to soon, have been underdeveloped since entering the NFL for reasons outside their control, or entered from a small school with lower competition. These players have all spent time of bad football teams, and were not NFL ready during the first 2-3 years in the NFL.

I have to assume Belichick scouts these young players during the draft and labels them not NFL ready but keeps a target on them with the intent of getting his hands on them when they really should be drafted into the NFL. Essentially these players are getting the development they did not receive in college at the NFL level.

• Dion Lewis – entered the NFL after his sophomore season at the age of 20.

• Rufus Johnson – went Tarleton and he was on the 4th player ever to be drafted by an NFL team from there.

• Sealver Siliga – entered the NFL after his junior season at the age of 20.

• Akiem Hicks – was on the 9th Canadian Interuniversity Sport player drafted by an NFL team.

• Jon Bostic – was drafted by the Bears at just 20 years old after entering college a year early.

• Mike Williams – was drafted by the Lions at 21 years old and asked to change positions to OL.

• Keshawn Martin – was drafted by the Texans and played behind Johnson and Hopkins with 7 different QBs starting during his tenure in Houston.

This is why we can overcome UFA losses, and Goodell taking all of our draft picks away, because Belichick finds talent that others fail to notice.

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A very interesting thesis...

50-yard-line said:

Jonathan Casillas was all over the field yesterday for the Giants. He played a great game, including ST. I think BB saved/rejuvenated his career.

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I was thinking that watching Casillas too. A one-year-rental gig with the Patriots has become a golden ticket for young players neglected on other teams' depth charts.

patchick said:

There's plenty of truth in that, but Belichick finds specific efficient tactics for maneuvering the personnel landscape and then mines them vastly more than other teams. In past years his specialty was draft day trades into the future, with the effect of upgrading picks -- the Patriots did that more than the other 31 teams put together.

Right now trading late picks for young players entering the final year of their rookie deal seems to be the chosen tactic. You net a young player entering his prime who's more valued than the players out on the street, and the cost averages out to essentially nothing once comp picks are factored in.

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But don't forget about the Comp picks...

The Pats have figured out the Comp pick thing and have started structuring contracts to include an option year so that if they decline that option, that player becomes eligible for comp picks. Last year they traded a 5th and 6th round pick for Akeem and Casillas and got back picks in the 6th and 7th round which were only ten picks lower than the ones they traded away (they would have been only 2 picks lower, but the comp picks at the end of each round pushed them down). PLUS the Pats will receive comp picks for both Akeem and Casillas in next years draft due to the contracts they singed with other teamns in the off-season. So trading for young players in their contract year is a great move, because even if they sign elsewhere after this year, chances are, you can still get a comp pick for them.

Yes, this is an aspect of acquiring players. And, yes, we all agree Belichick is great at acquiring players. except after a loss.

I'm sure there are other teams who do well in this class of players, including with patriots players who didn't cut it here after 2 years and a 3rd camp. Some are even playing now, and are likely to be as productive as such acquisitions by the patriots.

FreeTedWilliams said:

But don't forget about the Comp picks...

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psst...read the last sentence of the post you quoted...