Anyone know why Alterraun Verner is being benched? And what would you give up to trade for him?

Elijah said:

What about the Pittsburgh and Jacksonville games, or a large amount of 2013 or all of 2014?

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What about them?

Brady has two primary targets: Gronk and Edelman. They get about 40% of his passes. Other than that, they spread it around and look for match-ups and exploit them.

Against Buffalo, the match-up they liked was Dobson, and he had a great game.

Against Jacksonville, he broke over the top for a 52-yard PI on 1st and 20. That doesn't matter? He was also signaled out on a couple of big plays for downfield blocking by BB. That doesn't matter?

Dobson's like a cheaper Amendola: they have roles to play and they play them.

I'd get the hate more if they were paying the guy 10m, but seriously.

Brady6 said:

You nailed it here. We have all are chips in the pot with Butler right now and if misses time we don't have anyone who can fill his void.

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We have all the chips in the pot. We have a solid set of corners, and we know that our corners rarely are injured. Really?

mgteich said:

We have all the chips in the pot. We have a solid set of corners, and we know that our corners rarely are injured. Really?

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Who are these solid CBs?

Brady6 said:

Who are these solid CBs?

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Aren't you the one who says that WE have all the chips because we don't really NEED a corner. I'm not the one implying that we are OK the way we are.

mgteich said:

We have all the chips in the pot. We have a solid set of corners, and we know that our corners rarely are injured. Really?

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I'm pretty sure you're getting his point backwards here...he was arguing that the CB corps is way too shallow and that a single injury could decimate it.

mgteich said:

Aren't you the one who says that WE have all the chips because we don't really NEED a corner. I'm not the one implying that we are OK the way we are.

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I think you misunderstand my post.

I said all of our chips were in the pot on Butler as in we are all in with him therefore it something happen to him we would be in a bad situation. Which is why I am for acquiring another starting quality CB.

Brady6 said:

I think you misunderstand my post.

I said all of our chips were in the pot on Butler as in we are all in with him therefore it something happen to him we would be in a bad situation. Which is why I am for acquiring another starting quality CB.

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fair enough

I apologize for misunderstanding.

If available, we need to add an additional CB or two.

livinginthe past said:

1. Verner is strictly a zone guy from what I remember - not a good fit here.

2. This isn't Madden - it doesn't matter how much you don't want Aaron Dobson you cannot simply package him to make him go away. Dobson is had acheived next to nothing in this league - and he is still way more useful to us than anyone else.

3. Bucs are a hot mess as usual - perhaps he could learn some man-2-man so I wouldn't rule it out for a conditional low round pick.

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Verner's size is a big limiting factor that makes him a liability in man coverage, agreed that he's pretty strictly a zone guy. That's why Lovie went after him in the first place. But Belichick can scheme around that, we've seen him do it with similar players.

Strongly agree on point 2 as well.

I think the biggest issue with Verner is that he made all his money based on one year of production in which he never had especially hard assignments since Jason McCourty was always taking the WR1. His INT total was notable, but it was also the product of being thrown at a lot.

He's a specialist CB who's good at one thing and bad at a lot of other things--either a rich man's Logan Ryan or a poor man's Buster Skrine, depending on how you look at it. And he's paid to be a lot more than that, so I just don't see the value lining up from Belichick's perspective.

Joey007 said:

Isn't the deadline in a couple weeks?

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End of October/beginning of November.

Edit: November 3rd---so still a full 4+ weeks away.

No thanks. We need another decent corner that can play some man coverage.

If he could help improve our secondary for a mid round draft pick? I'd say yes, that looks like an intriguing option. I wouldn't mind giving up a 3rd or 4th round pick. We really need a solid #2 outside CB. Butler is our only reliable option out there so far. But Ultimately in BB I trust.

PS The guy who mentioned Jason McCourty. Dang that would be a dream come true to have brother play with brother for the Pats. But I don't think the Titans are holding a firesale yet... although they are 1-2. Still time for panic!

VJCPatriot said:

If he could help improve our secondary for a mid round draft pick? I'd say yes, that looks like an intriguing option.

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You say "if" Verner would improve our secondary. So, this means that you think it questionable whether Verner is better than Fletcher outside? or better that Coleman inside? Just checking.

My issue is the cost.

mgteich said:

My issue is the cost.

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I think the cost of approx. 3+ million against the cap, the amount of draft resources that need to be given up, the fact that Verner's been benched and can't see the field due to his poor play, and the fact that he may have been somewhat overrated to begin with are all concerns for me.

As Miguel notes, it would take 3.25m today, but that cost drops 250k per week as we move forward. Even if they tried to grab him closer to the deadline it would still be around 2.5m dollars.

If Belichick feels that there's a chance he could contribute, he'll offer something to bring him in. If not, there's a good chance that this particular player is going to fall into the 95%+ category of fan "wants" that never end up coming here.

I don't see the Verner love. Another 5'10, 4.53 CB is not that enticing. We need some size. I'd rather Mathis than Verner. In fact I'd rather Nick Marshall. However in all likelihood, BB is likely to stay pat and just use Fletcher differently.

patsfanincleveland said:

This is extremely funny.

"PickPatrick".........only at patsfans.com

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We in Nashville call him that too

patfanken said:

I don't see the Verner love. Another 5'10, 4.53 CB is not that enticing. We need some size. I'd rather Mathis than Verner. In fact I'd rather Nick Marshall. However in all likelihood, BB is likely to stay pat and just use Fletcher differently.

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I'd consider Mathis in some sort of matchup role, but I'm not sure he's fast enough to keep up with elite WRs anymore. I do like his instincts and how he plays though, always have.

I don't know why you'd want a converted QB (who was overrated as a QB in college, btw) who's never played DB before training camp this year. Just because you're tall and fast enough, and ran the read option - doesn't mean you're a Cornerback.

TommyD4207 said:

I'd consider Mathis in some sort of matchup role, but I'm not sure he's fast enough to keep up with elite WRs anymore. I do like his instincts and how he plays though, always have.

I don't know why you'd want a converted QB (who was overrated as a QB in college, btw) who's never played DB before training camp this year. Just because you're tall and fast enough, and ran the read option - doesn't mean you're a Cornerback.

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Marshall is intriguing to me because I'm beginning to believe more and more that great CB's are developed more than they come ready made out of the package.

I also believe that while colleges are bringing more and more 6'3-6 WR's into the league each year, CB's aren't coming close to keeping up in size. 6' is considered tall, when that stopped being tall for a WR a decade ago. So unless we want a league where tall guys run back shoulder fades, and other tall guys just try and outjump shorter DB's something needs to be done.

Since they don't seem to be making them for the draft, teams are going to have invest development time to take a Nick Marshall type, or some other kind of taller athlete and make them a into 'big" CB

patfanken said:

Marshall is intriguing to me because I'm beginning to believe more and more that great CB's are developed more than they come ready made out of the package.

I also believe that while colleges are bringing more and more 6'3-6 WR's into the league each year, CB's aren't coming close to keeping up in size. 6' is considered tall, when that stopped being tall for a WR a decade ago. So unless we want a league where tall guys run back shoulder fades, and other tall guys just try and outjump shorter DB's something needs to be done.

Since they don't seem to be making them for the draft, teams are going to have invest development time to take a Nick Marshall type, or some other kind of taller athlete and make them a into 'big" CB

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I'm the exact opposite, I guess. I can't think of one cornerback "conversion" project that has gone on to be a star at the position. Troy Brown I guess would be the closest, and I'd classify him more as "won't be the guy to lose you the game, so long as you have a good pass rush".

I think cornerback, skillwise, is second only to quarterback in rarity, and requires a similar level of intelligence, especially if you want a star, shutdown CB. I don't think you can just put any tall, fast guy out there, and have them excel at the position - certainly not a read-option QB. If you want to try him at WR or something in a limited role, and let him develop, maybe you'd have something.

I just don't know if he's worth taking up a PS spot for 3 years while he "figures things out", because you certainly can't afford to actually play him in games.

Elijah said:

What about the Pittsburgh and Jacksonville games, or a large amount of 2013 or all of 2014?

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I'm not sure what anyone is expecting from the 3rd/4th target in this offense, honestly.

Brady has thrown 133 passes this year, with 28 aimed at Gronk and 42 aimed at JE - that means that 38% of his passes are aimed at those two guys. Brady has his two primary targets, and they're as good as any duo in the league. Even better for the Pats, there is no set "3rd receiver" in this offense, and with Dobson, Amendola, Lewis and Chandler = all very different types of receivers - McD and Brady can find the match-ups they most like.

Dobson's caught 9 of the 12 passes thrown his way (not counting getting a 52-yard PI call against Jacksonville), and had 87 yards (7 out of 8) against Buffalo. He's got more receptions and more yards than Danny Amendola, and comes at less than one-fifth the cost.

Dobson is on target for 36 catches, 48 targets and 539 yards. For under $800k. And BB has singled him out for good downfield blocking, which is too often overlooked (DA is another very good blocker, and so is Jojo - apparently BB values that).

Given the make-up of the current scheme, with two primary targets and a bunch of third options, particularly when LaFell comes back, if Dobson gives us just a couple of Buffalo-like performances, he's more than worth the money. I also think that the Buffalo game proves that when Brady needs him (in case of other injuries), he's ready to make it happen.

In 4 games, Robert Woods is on almost the exact same pace, by the way.

Yeah, we could trade him, or just about anyone, for an upgrade at a position of need, but I feel that this guy is being treated unfairly on this board. Same as Amendola a year ago, because he's not getting the ball a lot doesn't mean he's not getting open - with the way this offense is rolling, it only means that he's not the only one getting open.

EDIT: Sorry, this is somewhat a double post, as the one up top didn't show up on my feed for a long time...weird.

TommyD4207 said:

I can't think of one cornerback "conversion" project that has gone on to be a star at the position.

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Star conversions are rare at most positions, and I agree I can't think of a CB example. Keeping my eye on Quinten Rollins, though.