Revisiting Wes Welker (Bye Week Edition)

PATS16N0 said:

Belichick offered him 5.5 to play here.

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It was widely reported to be 2/10 here in N.England (with more year one guaranteed money), while Denver gave him 2/12. Of course he ended up getting more guaranteed money in Denver, because he played out both years of the contract.

I've always wondered if Welker would've taken 2/11 here to stay, compared to Denver's 2/12? Of course, that would've meant Belichick coming up 500k per year over the 2 year deal, and that didn't happen.

Fencer said:

Never, because that's not what happened.

What actually happened is that he gambled on a hard negotiating line, and lost his gamble.

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If by "lost his gamble" you mean ultimately--in the big picture, by having his career shortened, than I'd agree; otherwise, he simply played out the franchise tag here (9.5m), then went to DEN for another 12m dollars.

In other words, he got something either right in line with Belichick's original 3 year offer (give or take 1-2m, depending upon which report you believe), or even ended up getting more money in the long run seeing as how he was paid about 3/22.

As we've noted, he ultimately lost by shortening his career, so--who knows how he feels right now? If he's unhappy, he's at least unhappy and rich

Randy Moss deserves all the love some people give to Welker.

Randy Moss defends the Patriot shield as zealously as any former player to wear our teams uniform. He's a Patriot for life. As far as ex-Patriot TV personalities go, Randy Moss is Bruschi and Willie tier, and i'd be tempted to argue that he shoots down the BS even harder than they do.

Save your love for Randy.

Wes can **** off.

I'd happily take Moss as a depth receiver even this year, and would be flat out pissed off to see Welker ever wear a Patriot uniform ever again.

supafly said:

If by "lost his gamble" you mean ultimately--in the big picture, by having his career shortened, than I'd agree; otherwise, he simply played out the franchise tag here (9.5m), then went to DEN for another 12m dollars.

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That, and he would likely have been happier here. He still parties in the offseason with Brady rather than with Manning.

Fencer said:

That, and he would likely have been happier here. He still parties in the offseason with Brady rather than with Manning.

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I honestly wonder if he just got caught up in a pissing match with Bill Belichick? This is why I'm very curious to know if he would've stayed for the 2/11 (assuming NE comes up 500k per year x2), vs. Denver's offer of 2/12. Personally, I believe he would have. I don't think he really wanted to leave. In other words, I think Belichick called his bluff.

ViperGTS said:

IF you need a special sized helmet to play football due to prior concussions, you shouldn't be there period. I felt that in Denver with that him playing with thst mushroom helmet was a disgrace. He never should have been allowed to play like that.

His health is more important, hence no one will sign him. Give him a tryout to keep him in the game a bit, but outside of that I don't see much more.

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More importantly, his agent misread the market, and he apparently didn't realize the risk of being hung out to dry by Peyton Manning.

Welker pissed Belichick off permanently when he signed the franchise tag. Belichick never wanted to give him that much but he simply didn't have the resources to just let him go at that time. They wanted Amendola but he wasn't available yet, so they bid their time. Ultimately Edelman turned into a better player than either of them, good thing for the Patriots as they needed it.

TheBostonStraggler said:

True enough about the concussions. I know that has to be one concern. But do teams actually put health above success/wins? Unless the NFL is sending quiet messages to stay away from concussed players like WW, I still find it hard to believe a historically prolific pass catcher who trained inside 2 top winning organizations and two of the best QBs there are, that some team wouldn't sign him on a low risk contract/team protecting-incentive based contract. Many teams are desperate to provide a solid, low risk type passing outlet for their young QBs. Welker would seemingly fill that role.....unless, maybe, our past value of WW is not anywhere close to the CW of NFL GMs now?

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As a counterpoint, before Collie signed with NE, they forced him to sign an injury waiver (which was never explained) that would either let them reduce his salary or cut him outright if he got injured. I wouldn't be surprised if that is part of the problem.

Ivan said:

Welker pissed Belichick off permanently when he signed the franchise tag. Belichick never wanted to give him that much but he simply didn't have the resources to just let him go at that time. They wanted Amendola but he wasn't available yet, so they bid their time. Ultimately Edelman turned into a better player than either of them, good thing for the Patriots as they needed it.

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I would think that the issue is not that he signed the franchise tag, as that they couldn't come to an agreement to replace it. I'm sure that he wouldn't have minded say $10M guaranteed out of, say, 3 years/$18M total.

After watching that "The league of denial" documentary posted here a couple weeks ago, excellent by the way, count me among those who want to see him retire. He can't take another shot to the head, I'm afraid he has passed the "security line" already, he was playing scared in Denver and his eyes sometimes were like far away from the field. I'm really afraid damage has been done.

About the deal he signed with Denver, I was so pissed with "the drop" that i didnt care, I thought Amendola was young, taller and with much more upside, it's starting to pay off a little late but it is at least.

ViperGTS said:

IF you need a special sized helmet to play football due to prior concussions, you shouldn't be there period. I felt that in Denver with that him playing with thst mushroom helmet was a disgrace. He never should have been allowed to play like that.

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Not arguing with your post, just conjecturalizing:

If a player that has had a bunch of head injuries is told he should expect to be better off with the added protection ("special sized helmet,") should the NFL require such protection on every player?

Is the difference between protecting concussion afflicted players, and every player a matter of aesthetics, or do the enhanced helmets actually reduce injury?

At the rate of growth of players, whether due improved scouting or due to improved "nutritional guidelines," or some combo, the league needs to find a better helmet. If the one Welker was wearing is safer... Shouldn't every player wear it?

ctpatsfan77 said:

I would think that the issue is not that he signed the franchise tag, as that they couldn't come to an agreement to replace it. I'm sure that he wouldn't have minded say $10M guaranteed out of, say, 3 years/$18M total.

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In all reality though, Belichick offered him 16 million guaranteed, out of 3 years/20 million total, so it seems as though he did mind.

He got almost 10m dollars guaranteed the first year, and then was offered another 10m with 6 more guaranteed for an additional 2 years.

At least that's how Belichick saw it by including the franchise tag, and I can't really say that I blame him. At the end of the day, it had to have been pretty similar to the original 3 year offer, and that's including the guarantees.

ViperGTS said:

IF you need a special sized helmet to play football due to prior concussions, you shouldn't be there period. I felt that in Denver with that him playing with thst mushroom helmet was a disgrace. He never should have been allowed to play like that.

His health is more important, hence no one will sign him. Give him a tryout to keep him in the game a bit, but outside of that I don't see much more.

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What's so unusual about his helmet?



Seriously, I hope no one signs him. He needs to take care of his health.

Wes was a bargain for us for so many years, and amazingly productive. I have a hard time being upset with him for trying to maximize his value as a free agent. But it does diminish my opinion of him as a fan.

Tedy Bruschi, Matt Light, Troy Brown and Kevin Faulk are the ones I can think of who put their sunset years into Belichick's hands and played for whatever contract he was going to offer them. And they retired as Patriots. Light, I thought, had a few years left in the tank, but Solder had come onto the roster the year before and was ready to start. But rather than find another team, he just retired.

Then there's the camp with Welker, Mankins, Wilfork, Milloy, Vinatieri, Branch...who were committed to maximizing their market value. In different ways, Belichick got rid of each of them, some rather inauspiciously. Milloy and Mankins left suddenly and left a gap on the roster, Branch was traded for a huge haul (eventually returned off the trash heap), Vinatieri and Wilfork walked after playing under the tag and BB had a succession plan in place for them.

I wonder if all of them didn't regret leaving. Milloy missed a few SB teams he could have been a core member of. Mankins is banished to the backwaters of the NFL. Branch was a flop in Seattle and seriously missed having Brady as his QB. Wilfork has to move his family to Texas for a final few years with a mediocre, struggling franchise and facing his own diminishing skills.

Vinatieri is the only one that went on and did well for himself. Made a new home in Indy and even won a SB. Of course, we drafted Gostkowski and he turned out pretty good too. But Adam was a cult figure here, and the most famous clutch kicker in NFL history for his time in Foxboro. If nothing else, I think he walked away from a lot of endorsement money in NE that he probably couldn't get in Indy.

IIRC Ty Law has said that maybe he overplayed his hand at the end, and regrets not staying on with the Pats. It takes a lot of perspective and maturity to look back and admit you made a mistake in leaving the franchise that was Home for you.

PATS16N0 said:

I'm not a Welker fan anymore. I don't know when nostalgic Patriot fans are going to get it through their thick skulls that he went to a newly emerging -and short lived- Conference rival for the same money purely to stick it to us.

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I didn't see it that way. He and/or his agent decided to test the market and when he returned to the Pats they had moved on to Amendola.

I hope walks away, but the lure of the NFL and all of its glory is significant.. always liked his on field "toughness" and his playmaking ability..

IMO Welker's value was overestimated by his agent, when he turned down the generous Pats offer they overestimated the market.. then he descended into the abattoir that Peyton leads slot receivers into.

This whole chapter is the way the Pats do business, they make an offer and if you refuse it they move on to plan B...

I still love Wes, I think BB would bring him back if he thought he could help the team. BB doesn't hold grudges. Tried to bring Ty Law back multiples times and did bring Deion Branch back.

Welker is done as a player. The NFL and its coaches care about production, not long-term health. If Wes could help a team win he'd be w someone.

Like others, I hope he doesn't get signed because I think he is already going to have a very difficult time from how until his passing.

Wes just got old and developed concussion problems. That could have happened to him here too. I was really bummed when he left. He was a great player for us. However, once again, the BB brain trust did not overpay to keep him and turned out to be right after a bit of a rough start. I wish Wes nothing but the best, but I wish he would retire to preserve his health.

supafly said:

I honestly wonder if he just got caught up in a pissing match with Bill Belichick? This is why I'm very curious to know if he would've stayed for the 2/11 (assuming NE comes up 500k per year x2), vs. Denver's offer of 2/12. Personally, I believe he would have. I don't think he really wanted to leave. In other words, I think Belichick called his bluff.

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I think back to the "foot" comment that Welker made, and I think that represented Welker being a little head-strong (as he always has been), and indicated something between Welker and BB that simmered but never really came to a full boil, and I don't think either of them ever thought it would come to a head.

Not sure he ever expected this kind of outcome to unfold, and so fast. The pictures of him at the PC announcing his signing with Denver isn't one of happiness, but one of shell-shock.

That being said, he is one of the toughest football players I have ever seen play the game and someone who truly left everything on the field, and for that, I respect him and wish him nothing but the best.