Trade of Akiem Hicks another blow to Saints' dismal scouting record: Jeff Duncan

Rhodey · Oct 1, 2015

"The talented but inconsistent Hicks clearly had fallen out of favor with the team's staff and brain trust."

"Still, his precipitous fall from grace is startling when you consider just 13 months ago he was considered a lynchpin along the Saints' defensive front."

"The transaction further indicts the Saints' college scouting department, which was overhauled in the offseason. Hicks was the only remaining player from the team's five-man 2012 draft class still on the roster."

http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2015/09/trade_of_akiem_hicks_another_b.html

Fencer · Oct 1, 2015

the Green Bay Packers still have 20 of the 45 players (44 percent) they selected in the 2010 to 2014 drafts.

They averaged 9 picks per year and hit on almost half of them?

DarrylS · Oct 1, 2015

Maybe it was more about the need for an additional tight end, and Hicks was expendable..

Reminds me of the continual criticism of BB and how he does not know how to draft...

reflexblue · Oct 1, 2015

DarrylS said:
Maybe it was more about the need for an additional tight end, and Hicks was expendable..

Reminds me of the continual criticism of BB and how he does not know how to draft...

BBs record for drafting CBs and WR's is not the greatest.

DarrylS · Oct 1, 2015

reflexblue said:
BBs record for drafting CBs and WR's is not the greatest.

What team is consistently great at the NFL draft?? There are hits and misses every year. When you pick at the end of the first round every year, it is difficult to get the results some posters expect..

PatsBoy12 · Oct 1, 2015

DarrylS said:
What team is consistently great at the NFL draft?? There are hits and misses every year. When you pick at the end of the first round every year, it is difficult to get the results some posters expect..

I absolutely agree, though my next statement may make it seem like I'm disagreeing. It is difficult to draft and it's not an exact science, but what the poster you responded to said is also true. Corners and wideouts have been a real drafting weakness for BB. Were it not for Edelman (a college QB) and Branch, who could you point at and say that was a good WR pick up? Malcolm Butler looks like a player on the rise, but what other corners have there been that you can say were good picks by BB. Remember (and I'm sure you do), Ty was not BB's.

But he's also the same man that gave us Gronkowski and Hernandez (yeah yeah, I know). And though they are not wideouts, one is great and the other could have been. He's given us McCourty (though he plays safety now). So he's had hits in other areas that sort of compensate for WR and CB. But overall, DarrylS, I do agree with you. Drafting is hard and you never know what you'll get. And when you have as many picks per year as BB has had historically, then you have more opportunities to miss.

RayClay · Oct 1, 2015

reflexblue said:
BBs record for drafting CBs and WR's is not the greatest.

He's missed on every 1st round cb and wr so far.

RayClay · Oct 1, 2015

Since mccourty's a S.

Patsfanin Philly · Oct 1, 2015

Why don't we just trade a 7th rounder to the Steelers for their WR draft board????

Jackson 2 · Oct 1, 2015

PatsBoy12 said:
I absolutely agree, though my next statement may make it seem like I'm disagreeing. It is difficult to draft and it's not an exact science, but what the poster you responded to said is also true. Corners and wideouts have been a real drafting weakness for BB. Were it not for Edelman (a college QB) and Branch, who could you point at and say that was a good WR pick up? Malcolm Butler looks like a player on the rise, but what other corners have there been that you can say were good picks by BB. Remember (and I'm sure you do), Ty was not BB's.

But he's also the same man that gave us Gronkowski and Hernandez (yeah yeah, I know). And though they are not wideouts, one is great and the other could have been. He's given us McCourty (though he plays safety now). So he's had hits in other areas that sort of compensate for WR and CB. But overall, DarrylS, I do agree with you. Drafting is hard and you never know what you'll get. And when you have as many picks per year as BB has had historically, then you have more opportunities to miss.

David Givens and Asante Samuel were both OK.

shmessy · Oct 1, 2015

BTW, Saints fans are PISSED about giving up Hicks for Hooman.

Funny on page 4 when they find out it is Hicks that the Saints traded for Hooman:

"We got fleeced~!"

"Are you Kidding me ? Hicks ?"

"

Wow. In before the servers explode. This is ugly."

"Incredible. How do the Patriots do it?"

"I have to think that Hicks is the last remaining issue stemming from the locker room. It has to be. I'm a bit upset on this one. How about Jenkins?"

"They will coach him up and he will be a beast.....mind blowing some of the moves we make. Pure arrogance with nothing but 2009 to back it up."

"What the hell is Sean Payton doing ? We barely had a passrush !!! Why trade Hicks of all guys , for a No Name slow Old TE ? WHAAAAT IS THiS WORLD ?"

"I'm sorry but Hicks has been awful for us. He's done nothing at all lately.
Will he probably be better there? Yeah but for us he was a waste."

"It's what Bill Johnson does best, turn promising young players into bums. Hicks will be dominant in New England once he gets some good coaching."

http://saintsreport.com/forums/f2/s...wanui-updated-346797/index4.html#.Vg0i3vlViko

PatsBoy12 · Oct 1, 2015

Jackson 2 said:
David Givens and Asante Samuel were both OK.

I actually thought of including them, and I don't know why I didn't. But yes, you are very right.

pctronics0072 · Oct 1, 2015

DarrylS said:
What team is consistently great at the NFL draft?? There are hits and misses every year. When you pick at the end of the first round every year, it is difficult to get the results some posters expect..

Not even that. It seems there are positions every coach is better at drafting at than others. Bb is amazing at qb where 5 of his picks were playing this past week. Also good at dts and offensive line it seems.

chasa · Oct 1, 2015

reflexblue said:
BBs record for drafting CBs and WR's is not the greatest.

and yet here we are, 4 super bowls, 6 attempts, and consistently one of the best teams in the league.

Deus Irae · Oct 1, 2015

chasa said:
and yet here we are, 4 super bowls, 6 attempts, and consistently one of the best teams in the league.

One is not exclusive of the other, so what's your point?

50-yard-line · Oct 1, 2015

reflexblue said:
BBs record for drafting CBs and WR's is not the greatest.

Corners seem like the hardest to draft, unless you're picking very high. Guys like Roberts (and Coleman) are hit or miss, but once you get out of hte first half of the 2nd round, there doesn't seem to be much left at corner.

And wide receiver? Pittsburgh hits on wide receivers, sure. Because of the way they run the offense, with Ben extending plays, all they need to look at is athletic ability. Wallace, Brown, Sander and the new kids are burners who just run all over the place until ben finallythrows the damned thing (well, Brown also runs amazing routes).

Seems like the Pats' system, and this QB, GOAT though he is, require a lot more.

So I'm not surprised that those two slots are BB's weakness, given draft position and the system they run.

reflexblue · Oct 1, 2015

DarrylS said:
What team is consistently great at the NFL draft?? There are hits and misses every year. When you pick at the end of the first round every year, it is difficult to get the results some posters expect..

bullsht, three or four years ago i post the number of d-backs (13 i believe) and wrs that were taken in the first three rounds. At that time only deon branch 2nd rnd wasn't a bust as far as wrs go, and thats still the case today. DBs are even worse, only D McCourty has made it. The rest of the high round (1-3) picks have been busts. Theres no problem with d lineman, lbs, o-lineman running backs, punter kickers etc. but the drafting of wrs and dbs (particularly CBs) has been putrid. One thing that makes BB arguably the GOAT is his ability to pick up cast offs like earth wind moreland, or ty poole and coach them up in to servacible dbs.

reflexblue · Oct 1, 2015

50-yard-line said:
Corners seem like the hardest to draft, unless you're picking very high. Guys like Roberts (and Coleman) are hit or miss, but once you get out of hte first half of the 2nd round, there doesn't seem to be much left at corner.

And wide receiver? Pittsburgh hits on wide receivers, sure. Because of the way they run the offense, with Ben extending plays, all they need to look at is athletic ability. Wallace, Brown, Sander and the new kids are burners who just run all over the place until ben finallythrows the damned thing (well, Brown also runs amazing routes).

Seems like the Pats' system, and this QB, GOAT though he is, require a lot more.

So I'm not surprised that those two slots are BB's weakness, given draft position and the system they run.

There seem to be teams that are just really good at a particular position, pitts good at wr, dl, and lb.

Rhodey · Oct 3, 2015

shmessy said:
"It's what Bill Johnson does best, turn promising young players into bums. Hicks will be dominant in New England once he gets some good coaching."

Consider that it's not just the coach, it's being around players et al that buy into Coach Belichick's vision. The result is a high-performance team that pays attention to details. This is not trick psychology. Nay, it's leadership 301.

patfanken · Oct 3, 2015

50-yard-line said:
Corners seem like the hardest to draft, unless you're picking very high. Guys like Roberts (and Coleman) are hit or miss, but once you get out of hte first half of the 2nd round, there doesn't seem to be much left at corner.

And wide receiver? Pittsburgh hits on wide receivers, sure. Because of the way they run the offense, with Ben extending plays, all they need to look at is athletic ability. Wallace, Brown, Sander and the new kids are burners who just run all over the place until ben finallythrows the damned thing (well, Brown also runs amazing routes).

Seems like the Pats' system, and this QB, GOAT though he is, require a lot more.

So I'm not surprised that those two slots are BB's weakness, given draft position and the system they run.

This is a point I was just about to make and it's a good one. I often see fans say, "Bill can't draft CB's". to which I say, "who can".

Right now we are in a league that has too few of 2 positions, QB's and CB's. Every year approximate 15-20 CB's are drafted. How many of them turn out to be true #1 CB's. Not very many, including a lot of #1 picks who aren't doing as well as Malcom Butler. CB is such a tough position to play now days with all the rules they put on you, you can scout all you want, you really won't know if a kid can play.....until he does. And even then it takes a few years before even the rare good ones, can reach a kind of consistency.

Sometimes we think that it is just a matter of using a high enough pick to get your guy. Clearly history tells us that it's a lot more than that. Finding a quality CB is just as big a mystery as finding a quality QB

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