PFF gives Rodgers a negative grade for last night

SlowGettingUp · Sep 29, 2015

QuantumMechanic said:
Neat graph:

The second graph is very interesting. By that metric (career INTS vs career TDs) the ranking is as follows:

Rodgers
Brady
Manning
Brees
Marino (also a bunch of others with fewer TDs)

Of course things are skewed a bit because Brady (compared to Manning at least) is more likely to hand off to a RB near the goal line. But Rodgers is quite a bit better than anyone else here - Brady would have needed about 50 fewer career interceptions to match him (100 instead of 150, so a very significant reduction).

Here are career passes vs interceptions:

Rogers 1.6%; Brady 2.0%; bunch of other lesser QBs and then Montana and Manning at 2.6%

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_int_perc_career.htm

TommyD4207 · Sep 29, 2015

SlowGettingUp said:
The second graph is very interesting. By that metric (career INTS vs career TDs) the ranking is as follows:

Rodgers

Brady

Manning

Brees

Marino (also a bunch of others with fewer TDs)

Of course things are skewed a bit because Brady (compared to Manning at least) is more likely to hand off to a RB near the goal line. But Rodgers is quite a bit better than anyone else here - Brady would have needed about 50 fewer career interceptions to match him.

Be interesting to see career passes vs interceptions.

Plus Brady played for 4 years "pre-emphasis".

Ice_Ice_Brady · Sep 29, 2015

TommyD4207 said:
Plus Brady played for 4 years "pre-emphasis".

Rodgers also got to sit and learn the game for four years before going in, so you're not going to get any of those "learning curve" numbers from him. That doesn't take away anything from him, as he is clearly on another statistical level that even Brady rarely visits. But, when you factor in Brady's pre-emphasis years and also Rodgers' long training program, it narrows the gap.

QuantumMechanic · Sep 29, 2015

You mean Brady didn't learn interception avoidance from Drew?

Archeryaddict12 · Sep 29, 2015

Rodgers is a great qb, but to say any qb, other then Montana is better then Brady is stupid. Rodgers isn't anywhere near GOAT status, he's not even close to Brady. Move along

Tony2046 · Sep 29, 2015

SlowGettingUp said:
The second graph is very interesting. By that metric (career INTS vs career TDs) the ranking is as follows:

Rodgers

Brady

Manning

Brees

Marino (also a bunch of others with fewer TDs)

Of course things are skewed a bit because Brady (compared to Manning at least) is more likely to hand off to a RB near the goal line. But Rodgers is quite a bit better than anyone else here - Brady would have needed about 50 fewer career interceptions to match him (100 instead of 150, so a very significant reduction).

Here are career passes vs interceptions:

Rogers 1.6%; Brady 2.0%; bunch of other lesser QBs and then Montana and Manning at 2.6%

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_int_perc_career.htm

Not sure how to interpret these stats when McNabb is ranked 4th..

List from 1 -22

Aaron Rodgers (31)
Tom Brady (38)
Neil O'Donnell
Donovan McNabb
Sam Bradford (27)
Jeff Garcia
Matt Ryan (30)
Mark Brunell
David Garrard
Jason Campbell (33)
Alex Smith (31)
Steve Bono
Rich Gannon
Joe Flacco (30)
Ryan Tannehill (27)
Kyle Orton
Joe Montana+
Steve Young+
Peyton Manning (39)
Bernie Kosar
Chad Pennington
Andrew Luck (26)

TommyD4207 · Sep 29, 2015

Tony2046 said:
Not sure how to interpret these stats when McNabb is ranked 4th..

List from 1 -22

Aaron Rodgers (31)
Tom Brady (38)
Neil O'Donnell
Donovan McNabb
Sam Bradford (27)
Jeff Garcia
Matt Ryan (30)
Mark Brunell
David Garrard
Jason Campbell (33)
Alex Smith (31)
Steve Bono
Rich Gannon
Joe Flacco (30)
Ryan Tannehill (27)
Kyle Orton
Joe Montana+
Steve Young+
Peyton Manning (39)
Bernie Kosar
Chad Pennington
Andrew Luck (26)

Brunell AND Garrard, huh? No Leftwich?

(Also Neil O'Donnell is 3rd, who is, of course, most famous for making Dallas Cowboy Larry Brown a ton of money by throwing to him on a consistent basis)

Also, Jason Campbell is 9th. Jason Campbell.

Deus Irae · Sep 29, 2015

TommyD4207 said:
Brunell AND Garrard, huh? No Leftwich?

(Also Neil O'Donnell is 3rd, who is, of course, most famous for making Dallas Cowboy Larry Brown a ton of money by throwing to him on a consistent basis)

Also, Jason Campbell is 9th. Jason Campbell.

These are great examples of how numbers don't show the whole picture.

Tony2046 · Sep 29, 2015

Archeryaddict12 said:
Rodgers is a great qb, but to say any qb, other then Montana is better then Brady is stupid. Rodgers isn't anywhere near GOAT status, he's not even close to Brady. Move along

Rodgers is a great QB. His career path projectury puts him in an elite category. He hasn't gotten their yet but what he is doing right now is amazing. Brady OTOH is the GOAT. I understand people bringing up Montana but to me personally getting to 6 SB's is greater than 4 among other things.

More than what stats indicate are the memories of last minute drives, phenomenal comebacks and just delivering on a consistent basis year after year. I agree with those that teams win championships but a QB can lose them too. A great QB can win them while masking deficiencies of a team.

Tom Brady has delivered like no other QB has and still has more in the tank. I would expect that GB has a good opportunity to get to the SB a few more times with Aaron Rodgers. Anyways no way to compare the two when one has already delivered and the other just might.

TommyD4207 · Sep 29, 2015

Tony2046 said:
More than what stats indicate are the memories of last minute drives, phenomenal comebacks and just delivering on a consistent basis year after year. I agree with those that teams win championships but a QB can lose them too. A great QB can win them while masking deficiencies of a team.

Aaron Rodgers is bad at these, and has never come back from a deficit of more than 9 points. Ever.

Tony2046 · Sep 29, 2015

TommyD4207 said:
Aaron Rodgers is bad at these, and has never come back from a deficit of more than 9 points. Ever.

I agree but I think he is playing at an elite level right now. I don't know what that will translate into 10 years from now but he definitely has the tools to get it done. Last years choke in the championship game may have been a learning lesson or a tendency. I think we'll know more at the end of the year.

TommyD4207 · Sep 29, 2015

Tony2046 said:
I agree but I think he is playing at an elite level right now. I don't know what that will translate into 10 years from now but he definitely has the tools to get it done. Last years choke in the championship game may have been a learning lesson or a tendency. I think we'll know more at the end of the year.

I mean, he's been playing at an elite level for 5 years. Just, for some reason, people think he's the greatest of all time this year. I'm not sure what's changed. It's not like he won another Super Bowl, or even a clutch road game against a good team or something.

Deus Irae · Sep 29, 2015

TommyD4207 said:
I mean, he's been playing at an elite level for 5 years. Just, for some reason, people think he's the greatest of all time this year. I'm not sure what's changed.

Manning's done. They need a successor for the narrative. It'll be wrong again (Brady = G.O.A.T., Montana = #2 on the list), but they'll be able to try forcing it down people's throats for several years.

Brady_to_Moss · Sep 29, 2015

PFF loves that kush

SlowGettingUp · Sep 30, 2015

Sort of interesting that PFF liked Marcus Cannons's play in the Jags game. Cannon gets no love here, but they had him graded as the 5th best Patriot:

New England Patriots
– QB Tom Brady continued his hot start to the season as he attacked the Jaguars’ underneath coverage all afternoon. In addition to the stats above, Brady finished with an accuracy percentage of 89.7 percent, as his nine incompletions included two drops, two throwaways, and a batted pass. On passes thrown beyond 10 yards, Brady finished five-of-six for 126 yards.

– While the quick passing game helps the offensive line, they deserve their share of credit for allowing Brady to be pressured on only nine of his 44 dropbacks. They also showed well in the run game where five of the seven regulars posted positive run block grades including RT Sebastian Vollmer (+2.3). Despite a seven-man rotation that is moving players all over the line of scrimmage (including three rookies), line coach Dave DeGuglielmo has done a masterful job by forming the league’s top ranked run-blocking unit to date (+9.6).

– LB Jamie Collins was all over the field for New England, picking up a strip-sack and a hurry on his nine pass rushes while grading positively both against the run (+1.3) and in coverage (+0.4). Collins is the team’s highest-graded pass-rusher after Week 3 (+3.7).

Top Performers

OLB Jamie Collins (+4.6)

QB Tom Brady (+4.2)

TE Rob Gronkowski (+4.0)

OT Sebastian Vollmer (+3.2)

OT Marcus Cannon (+2.7)

Ivan · Sep 30, 2015

It would be awesome if Ian created a "useless" icon I could use every time PFF is cited as a source.

Ice_Ice_Brady · Sep 30, 2015

Ivan said:
It would be awesome if Ian created a "useless" icon I could use every time PFF is cited as a source.

It's shockingly bad. I cannot believe that website is cited by the mainstream media and even on some NFL broadcasts. I like the idea of advanced grading and metrics, but those guys are clearly wrong more than they are right, based on common sense.

SlowGettingUp · Sep 30, 2015

Ice_Ice_Brady said:
It's shockingly bad. I cannot believe that website is cited by the mainstream media and even on some NFL broadcasts. I like the idea of advanced grading and metrics, but those guys are clearly wrong more than they are right, based on common sense.

So clearly they are out to lunch on QB ratings (partly because they only focus on the physical part of the job), but what about the other positions?

I would assume they do mostly OK on stuff like RBs, OL and DL, TEs and maybe receivers and somewhat worse on safety/corners where they don't always know what the defense design was.

Ring 6 · Sep 30, 2015

SlowGettingUp said:
So clearly they are out to lunch on QB ratings (partly because they only focus on the physical part of the job), but what about the other positions?

I would assume they do mostly OK on stuff like RBs, OL and DL, TEs and maybe receivers and somewhat worse on safety/corners where they don't always know what the defense design was.

No. They are bad at everything. They simply do not understand football. With respect to DBs they 'credit' the play to whoever is closest. Just as their QB ratings are based upon ignorant criteria, so are their ratings on other positions.
A poster earlier this week was concluding that Michael Williams has been the 3rd best TE in the NFL so far based upon PFF.
Its garbage, whether we like the result of the garbage analysis or not.

PFF gives Rodgers a negative grade for last night

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