PFF gives Rodgers a negative grade for last night

Deus Irae · Sep 29, 2015

TBR said:
I hate fantasy football

Yet you're using that mindset when dismissing YAC, which is an incredibly stupid thing to do. The announcers broke down a perfect example of why during the game.

GB has run play called
KC has box stacked
Rodgers audibles to quick strike pass
Profit!

Yet people like you, and the clowns at PFF, would dismiss that play, and PFF would actually rate it as a negative.

Palm Beach Pats Fan · Sep 29, 2015

For the life of me I will never understand why anyone who thinks that QB B is better than QB A:

QB A throws a quick-strike perfectly-placed pass to an on-the move receiver 5 yards upfield, leading him into a hole in the D for a 20 yard gain

QB B drops back, pats the ball, while taking a hit he throws an out route to a receiver 20 yards upfield, who is immediately tackled.

They both moved the ball the same amount. WHY IS YAC A NEGATIVE?

It should be the other way around: QB A executed a higher-percentage play with less of a risk for anything bad happening (sack, fumble, INT, etc.)

Deus Irae · Sep 29, 2015

primetime said:
I don't know whether I agree or not - at best it's just a pissing contest, and Pats Fans Dot Com is going to say it's Brady - but QB wins aren't necessarily a fair way to judge. Both Rodgers and Brady have lost games they should have won on the strength of their arms thanks to historically bad defenses.

Any method of comparing individuals in a team sport can be dismissed by people with one agenda or another.

jah · Sep 29, 2015

Ivan said:
PFF only proves that the person using it is into fantasy football, not the real thing. It is worthless outside of fantasy football.

Tell that to some posters here, as well as major NFL media outlets...

hambone1818 · Sep 29, 2015

What these advanced football metrics fail to realize is that it's not how far downfield a throw is, it's how open the player is and how accurate the throw is to lead the receiver to the spot they need to be led for a big gain.

Brady hits his receivers in stride, where the ball needs to be for him to turn it upfield and get big yards. Same with Rodgers. Neither forces balls into tight windows downfield, hence neither gets picked off all that frequently.

They're the two best QB's in the game and no one is really close. I laugh at all the felating of Luck...big arm, some wheels and size, but stupid decision-making. You don't have to wow people with 30 yard strikes downfield between two defenders when you can hit guys all...day...long for low-risk quick-hitters that can be turned upfield more often than not.

Joey007 · Sep 29, 2015

TommyD4207 said:
He played pretty well.

He certainly didn't play negative grade-level.

Definitely played alright without a doubt, but a lot of his yardage and Touchdowns were due to his receivers gaining big yards after catch and the Chiefs corners being unable to cover or tackle.

SHOWTIME15 · Sep 29, 2015

Ice_Ice_Brady said:
Aaron Rodgers is a demi-god. If you can't appreciate his greatness, you are blinded by insecurity. He is first-round athletic talent with Tom Brady's decision making and intelligence. PFF is is a joke, but then again, they always have been.

Rodgers and Brady - NOT Manning and Brady - are the two best quarterbacks of the salary cap era. I can only dream as a fan that they face off in a Super Bowl before it's over...what a game that would be.

ability wise he's probably the best over thr past 10 years, but his playoff perfomance is not there.

letekro · Sep 29, 2015

patsfan13 said:
Rogers is headed to the HOF, but he isn't as good as Brady.

Playoffs:
Brady 21-8, .724 winning percentage

Rogers 6-5, .545 winning percentage

Reg season:
Brady 163-47, .776 winning percentage

Rogers 73-33, .686 winning percentage

Brady is head and shoulders above Rogers, it isn't even close. BTW as to Manning as the best Reg season QB, nonsense. Manning is better than Rogers in the reg season, 182-77, .704 winning percentage better than Rogers not close to Brady.

Hard to take your comments seriously when you refer to him 5 times as "Rogers". Also hard when you cite winning percentage as the sole factor in determining QB greatness. There are 53 guys on a football team, and what, 10 coaches? You don't think those guys play a role in whether a team wins or loses? Use your eyes--Rodgers is a beast. His individual stats speak for themselves, he has won a SB despite being handicapped by a strategically unsound head coach and uninspiring defenses, and would have been in the big game last year if not for a cosmically bad special teams play. And let's not pretend that Greg Jennings, Randall, Cobb, James Jones, and Jordy Nelson are the most talented guys in the world. Solid guys, but they wouldn't be stars if they were playing with an average QB. There are no Megatrons, AJ Greens, Rob Gronkowskis, or Dez Bryants in that group.

slam · Sep 29, 2015

Ivan said:
Pro Football Focus applies to fantasy football, nothing else. It's irrelevant to real football and should never be cited for anything involving real football.

Is this even true? I would think any Fantasy owner would be happy with 5 TDs, 0 INTs, 333 yards.

juny · Sep 29, 2015

If PFF is only good for fantasy and gave Rodgers a negative score even though he scored a boatload of fantasy points, they're also doing fantasy wrong

A Defiant Goose · Sep 29, 2015

Rodgers was lights out last night.I watched the first quarter and a half, maybe two quarters, before I went to sleep cause I could just tell what kind of night it would be. It was almost exactly like watching Brady play. They make it look so easy

BradyFTW! · Sep 29, 2015

If the public at large has even an ounce of intelligence, they'll realize that this isn't an indictment of Rodgers at all. To the contrary, it's a massive indictment of PFF. Rodgers played a fantastic game last night, and any statistic that tries to claim he was bad is simply garbage. And a lot of us here have been maintaining that PFF is exactly that for 5+ years now.

Unfortunately, I'm skeptical that the people who take PFF seriously can be swayed from it at this point. If the crap evaluation that PFF has consistently put out in the past hasn't already dissuaded them, I don't see why this would.

BradyFTW! · Sep 29, 2015

TBR said:
I don't think he played all that great.

He made 2 nice individual throws, but all of his TD drives were set up by YAC, missed tackles, runs, and a free play.

All of these plays went off as well as they did because Rodgers identified what the defense was doing pre-snap and then delivered perfect passes to counter it. You're making the same arguments that people make against Brady all the time, and it's just as wrong now as it is then.

Putting your receivers in position to get a ton of YAC is a sign of good quarterbacking. It requires that the QB read the defense well and deliver precise passes.

A Defiant Goose · Sep 29, 2015

Joey007 said:
Definitely played alright without a doubt, but a lot of his yardage and Touchdowns were due to his receivers gaining big yards after catch and the Chiefs corners being unable to cover or tackle.

Sounds exactly like what people say about Brady

primetime · Sep 29, 2015

One of the things Rodgers does like Brady is move in the pocket so well. His offensive line has always been patchwork at best, probably never as good as the Patriots', even. But he avoids sacks really well. And what he does better than Brady is his ability to get yards with his feet.

Ivan · Sep 29, 2015

SlowGettingUp said:
Here's a contrasting view from foootballoutsiders - they have Rodgers as number 1 and Brady as number 2 this week - Brady actually won on passing grade:

Aaron Rodgers GB
Rodgers was very effective throwing very short. On passes within 2 yards of the line of scrimmage, he went 7-of-7 for 75 yards. Three of those completions went for touchdowns, three others went for first downs, and the other was a 7-yard gain on first-and-10. Mind you, Rodgers was also very good throwing very deep. On passes that traveled at least 13 yards downfield, he went 5-of-7 for 143 yards, including a 27-yard touchdown. He was virtually perfect at the goal-line; inside the Kansas City 10, he went 4-of-5 for 19 yards and four touchdowns. The Packers have the best quarterback in football, and they weren't afraid to use him -- seven of Rodgers' first eight passes came on first down.
2.
Tom Brady NE

Brady has now finished first, fifth, and second in Quick Reads. He has three games with 139 passing DYAR; the rest of the NFL, combined, has 11. Yes, he's having a good year. There was a point early in the third quarter when New England was ahead 20-3, and Brady was sacked on third-and-13. It seemed like he was angry the Jaguars had the audacity to sack him, because his next two throws resulted in DPIs of 52 and 24 yards, and then he completed ten passes in a row, gaining 83 yards and six first downs in the process, including a 13-yard touchdown to Keshawn Martin. Then the Jaguars had the nerve to sack him again, and so he threw three more passes, completing two for 20 yards. Now, I'm not sure WHY Brady threw eight passes while the Patriots were ahead by 34 points in the fourth quarter when Jimmy Garoppolo was right there for mop-up duty, but that's hardly new ground for New England. Brady's arm strength has been questioned in recent years, but he was most effective against Jacksonville when throwing deep. He threw eight passes that traveled at least 10 yards downfield, and only one was incomplete. Two, as mentioned, resulted in DPIs for 76 total yards; five others were completed for 126 yards and five first downs.

Details here:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/quick-reads/2015/week-3-quick-reads

Whether I agree with them or not Football Outsiders is an actual real football site

Deus Irae · Sep 29, 2015

primetime said:
One of the things Rodgers does like Brady is move in the pocket so well. His offensive line has always been patchwork at best, probably never as good as the Patriots', even. But he avoids sacks really well. And what he does better than Brady is his ability to get yards with his feet.

Brady's had bad lines. Rodgers' had good lines. It's been an ebb and flow there.

And what Brady does better than any QB we've seen in the SB era, even better than Marino and Montana, and significantly better than Rodgers, is read and react to a defense both pre-snap and in the pocket. And, no, that's not a knock on Rodgers, who does it well. It's just a comparison.

Ivan · Sep 29, 2015

Elijah said:
Tell that to some posters here, as well as major NFL media outlets...

I do that every time they give me the opportunity by citing that worthless piece of sh!t site. It just shows how lazy the media is and how confused the posters who cite them are about the difference between real and fantasy football. According to PFF Kareem Mackenzie was the best player in football one season, Ryan Wendell the best center, and Brady the 32nd best player the year he was unanimous MVP, and no longer a top QB last season. They are completely full of sh.t and add absolutely nothing to any discussion. Once someone cites them I dismiss their opinion outright, they might as well cite the National Enquirer or ESPN.

TommyD4207 · Sep 29, 2015

letekro said:
Hard to take your comments seriously when you refer to him 5 times as "Rogers". Also hard when you cite winning percentage as the sole factor in determining QB greatness. There are 53 guys on a football team, and what, 10 coaches? You don't think those guys play a role in whether a team wins or loses? Use your eyes--Rodgers is a beast. His individual stats speak for themselves, he has won a SB despite being handicapped by a strategically unsound head coach and uninspiring defenses, and would have been in the big game last year if not for a cosmically bad special teams play. And let's not pretend that Greg Jennings, Randall, Cobb, James Jones, and Jordy Nelson are the most talented guys in the world. Solid guys, but they wouldn't be stars if they were playing with an average QB. There are no Megatrons, AJ Greens, Rob Gronkowskis, or Dez Bryants in that group.

In their primes, they each would have been the Patriots #1 WR. By a lot.

Also, at least two of those players have been on Rodgers' team at the same time, throughout his career.

You can blame blowing a 16-0 lead on a single special teams play, but that's silly. Rodgers was bad in the red zone, and went 6-12 for 57 yards in the second half, most of that on the desperation FG drive at the end.

Were it not for his defense picking Wilson off every other play, Seattle would have blown the Packers out. As it was, Seattle played terribly, and Rodgers couldn't take advantage. 4 times in the first 5 drives they were in the Seattle red zone, twice inside the 1...and they manage 16 points.

If you want to give Rodgers a pass, that's your business. Just sounds an awful lot like Manningsplaining to me.

aluminum seats · Sep 29, 2015

Rodgers is a great quarterback. Any discussion of him, or a discussion of Brady vs. Rodgers, that doesn't start with that fact is flat-out embarrassing--just like it's embarrassing when other fan bases/boards try to put Brady down. It's pathetic, so let's not do that.

It is undeniably true that his performance in quantifiable "clutch" situations--overtime games, 4th quarter comebacks, playoffs--has been subpar (I think it was Cold Hard Football Facts that had him at the very bottom of a list a couple years back among qualifying QBs). He was winless in like the first half dozen OT games he played, he led the only 15-1 team in history to not win a playoff game, etc.

All of that is fair fodder for debate, w/the standard (and justified) caveat that football's a team game, not two QBs going mano y mano out there. I think the clutch stuff is real. I'd take Brady. But Rodgers is great.

PFF gives Rodgers a negative grade for last night

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