BALTIMORE RAVENS Suck - 2015 Edition (Official): Conspirators Eat Crow

robertweathers said:

Your post is a really interesting one.

Besides 2000, what was the Pats rebuilding year?

If you define "rebuilding" as blowing up what was there before and sucking, they did not have one after 2000.

Click to expand...

I see 2010 as a rebuild. They moved on from 2009 players that underachieved, went to 2 TE with gronk and murderer, traded Moss etc...

PatsBoy12 said:

So, with all that said, I thought Jonathan Kraft's remarks would be the perfect springboard to the OFFICIAL BALTIMORE SUCKS thread. Feel free and indulge in all things Baltimore that suck . . . like . . . well . . . Baltimore.

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/...onathan_kraft_takes_a_few_shots_at_the_ravens

Click to expand...

I think in this case the apple fell far from the tree and Jonathon can carry a grudge...for a long while......He'll take over soon enough......................

Deus Irae said:

Having Brady has made it so that it's been more like having a college that's loaded with 4 star recruits:

"We don't rebuild. We reload."


Having said that, though, just imagine that 2011 secondary/defense if the team had been putting out an average QB that season.

Click to expand...

Yep! In another response I likened NE to Duke or Kentucky. Some years the team has more McDonalds All-Americans than others but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are not have a better or worse chance at being a National Champion.

deters said:

I see 2010 as a rebuild. They moved on from 2009 players that underachieved, went to 2 TE with gronk and murderer, traded Moss etc...

Click to expand...

Personally I see 2009 as the start of the rebuild. Bruschi, Harrison, Vrabel, Seymour all gone.

Wheelman said:

Personally I see 2009 as the start of the rebuild. Bruschi, Harrison, Vrabel, Seymour all gone.

Click to expand...

agreed. 2009 was start of it and 2010 is when the rebuild was "complete". Now they just add complementary pieces like all teams do.

Tunescribe said:

The Ravens have committed transgressions but have not quite earned the infamy required for a full-blown "Suck" thread. They also need to demonstrate general organizational incompetence to qualify and, unfortunately, have been a winning team earning a Lombardi fairly recently. We might hate them for very good reasons, but creating a "Suck" thread in their dishonor doesn't quite work.

Click to expand...

Tunescribe, I disagree. Allow the prosecution to make it's case:

Q: "The Ravens have committed transgressions but have not quite earned the infamy required . . . "

A: Dude, they're singularly responsible for the biggest controversy regarding a player probably ever! I don't care what their organization came out and said regarding the matter. They were the catalyst for everything. Now, I know there have been rumblings that this started prior to that game, but I feel the true catalyst was Baltimore. We almost lost our QB for the first four games of the season after the fallout from the report.


Q: "They also need to demonstrate organizational incompetence to qualify . . . "

A: How do you define organizational incompetence? Was how they handled Ray Rice organizational incompetence? How about their coach, who has done nothing but show that here in the past few months. I know they have won. That's obvious. But let's not pretend they have been the model of consistency and are above reproach. Your point is taken that they aren't the Bears or the Lions, but they're not on the level either. The Giants fairly recently won a Lombardi, but I doubt anyone would confuse them with good.


Q: We might hate them for very good reasons, but creating a "Suck" thread in their dishonor doesn't quite work."

A: I feel I just made two pretty compelling reasons for why this thread does work. And even if said reasons are not as compelling as I'd like to believe, when is it EVER NOT a good idea to rag on the Ravens? Are you kidding me?!


Disclaimer: I know you'll probably miss this in your haste to respond and be right (we all fall victim), I wanted to say that my response was mostly in good fun. I do disagree that this thread "doesn't quite work," but it's really not that serious to me. I feel like the Ravens have made me somewhat miserable and deserve their own thread. I, personally, love to see them lose . . . ESPECIALLY a division game.

robertweathers said:

Your post is a really interesting one.

Besides 2000, what was the Pats rebuilding year?

If you define "rebuilding" as blowing up what was there before and sucking, they did not have one after 2000.

Click to expand...

BB has been rebuilding since the 2009 season. He pensioned off the old timers, found new pieces starting with the LBs and Jerod Mayo, and has been doing so until this preseason. It is now essentially complete with the rebuilding of the CBs.

In successive years, BB has rebuilt the Offensive tackles, the DEs, the DTs, the OLBs the Safeties, the TEs and WRs, and the RBs. This year he finished rebuilding the interior OL, and added pieces to replace the temporary vet patches at CB. It has been a consistent and thorough, annual rebuild of each squad of the Team.

Plus he did this while continuing to win double digit games each season; and went to two Super Bowls.

AzPatsFan said:

BB has been rebuilding since the 2009 season. He pensioned off the old timers, found new pieces starting with the LBs and Jerod Mayo, and has been doing so until this preseason. It is now essentially complete with the rebuilding of the CBs.

In successive years, BB has rebuilt the Offensive tackles, the DEs, the DTs, the OLBs the Safeties, the TEs and WRs, and the RBs. This year he finished rebuilding the interior OL, and added pieces to replace the temporary vet patches at CB. It has been a consistent and thorough, annual rebuild of each squad of the Team.

Plus he did this while continuing to win double digit games each season; and went to two Super Bowls.

Click to expand...

You know, this will probably be the one part of his legacy that only might get talked about when he's done. He has done so many other brilliant things that people may take a while before they start talking about how NE has remained relevant, even AS they rebuilt the team. Now, there were bumps and some statistically miserable seasons (defensively anyway), but they were in the hunt and even competed for a sB in 2011 when they really had no business being there. Heck, came another frickin' insane catch and a Gronk away from winning the damn thing. Who else can proclaim this?

But alas, things like "Spygate" and "Deflategate" will take center stage in the Bill Belichick story long before and far more dramatically than talking about how he had the team in the playoffs and in contention even while changing out the old parts for new ones on the fly. No other team in recent or past memory jumps out at me as being able to do the same.

deters said:

I see 2010 as a rebuild. They moved on from 2009 players that underachieved, went to 2 TE with gronk and murderer, traded Moss etc...

Click to expand...

AzPatsFan said:

BB has been rebuilding since the 2009 season. He pensioned off the old timers, found new pieces starting with the LBs and Jerod Mayo, and has been doing so until this preseason. It is now essentially complete with the rebuilding of the CBs.

In successive years, BB has rebuilt the Offensive tackles, the DEs, the DTs, the OLBs the Safeties, the TEs and WRs, and the RBs. This year he finished rebuilding the interior OL, and added pieces to replace the temporary vet patches at CB. It has been a consistent and thorough, annual rebuild of each squad of the Team.

Plus he did this while continuing to win double digit games each season; and went to two Super Bowls.

Click to expand...

Great points but I don't think we share the same definition of "rebuild".

I view a 10-6 playoff team doing some roster purging, drafting well and going 14-2 retooling as opposed to rebuilding.

rochrist said:

Didn't he already suffer a torn achilles injury a few years ago?

Click to expand...

yes, he did, I think it was during the spring camp, he got back late in the season. that deer antler spray is good ****.......I can't recall, but I think one of his family battery issues was during that recovery.....

Deus Irae said:

That's kind of misleading, though. This team's been rebuilding the defense for about 8 years.

Click to expand...

It has. But where is the 2-3 year dip? How come they haven't been selecting in the top 10 for a few years?

Rhetorical questions.

Yeah, the D-Fence has been "rebuilding" for a while.

AzPatsFan said:

It has been a consistent and thorough, annual rebuild of each squad of the Team.

Click to expand...

Perhaps, this was the bit I initially left out...rebuild of each SQUAD.

deters said:

I see 2010 as a rebuild. They moved on from 2009 players that underachieved, went to 2 TE with gronk and murderer, traded Moss etc...

Click to expand...

Agreed. Everyone has to rebuild eventually, Pats are no exception. You just have a ton of margin for error in your rebuild when Brady is your QB. He'll keep even bad teams reasonably competitive, and when you hit on as many draft picks as the Pats did (and as rapidly as they did) in a short time, rebuilds can happen pretty quickly.

Rhodey said:

It has. But where is the 2-3 year dip? How come they haven't been selecting in the top 10 for a few years?

Rhetorical questions.

Click to expand...

Rhetorical, perhaps, but important. Again, it comes back to Brady.

1. From 18-1 with a ***** of a schedule under Brady in 2007, to 11-5 with a cake schedule under Cassel in 2008.
   
2. 2009, Brady's first year back, post-ACL, 10-6, and one of the 3 worst seasons of the Brady era (2002,2005, 2009).
   
3. 2010 and 2011 with the further declining defense being masked by Brady's return to health and the addition of the TEs.

Brady is the straw that stirs the drink and keeps the team from dipping, much like Manning kept the Colts at 10 wins or more for 11 of 12 seasons, prior to injury (beginning with his second year, not his 3 win rookie season). We saw the same thing happen to GB in Rodgers' injury season, where the team went 8-7-1 because Rodgers only had 9 starts (6-3). QBs who are that 'elite' mask the rebuilding going on behind them.

deters said:

agreed. 2009 was start of it and 2010 is when the rebuild was "complete". Now they just add complementary pieces like all teams do.

Click to expand...

I don't agree that it was complete. The years after 2009 were progress in the rebuilding. Even 2011 was a rebuild progress still (look at the secondary.) plus a lot of aging vets were stopgaps in that time (Waters Carter Ellis Branch Lloyd) as the youth of that time would continue to grow. (Hightower Jones Collins DMAC Edelman Gronk Solder Vereen)

To be honest last year was the year the rebuilding of a championship team came full circle. The young stars established themselves, and now aside from a couple patches in the secondary we have a championship caliber roster, and not a decent to above average roster that's getting moved forward to being a borderline championship team by the greatness of Tom and BB like we had seen from 2010-2013.

deters said:

agreed. 2009 was start of it and 2010 is when the rebuild was "complete". Now they just add complementary pieces like all teams do.

Click to expand...

I disagree as my post relates to the rebuilding.

BradyFTW! said:

Agreed. Everyone has to rebuild eventually, Pats are no exception. You just have a ton of margin for error in your rebuild when Brady is your QB. He'll keep even bad teams reasonably competitive, and when you hit on as many draft picks as the Pats did (and as rapidly as they did) in a short time, rebuilds can happen pretty quickly.

Click to expand...

Yet there are the poor souls dwelling in their Mom's basement wistfully writing how bad GM/Talent Evaluator BB is, when compared to his accomplishments as the Head Coach. Careful analysis of Draft results indicate few are better; and BB is also constrained by poor selection positions due to the Team's Won Loss record.

His second round selections are denigrated, even though three picks might rightfully have been re-drafted as the #1 pick in their Draft. Sebastion Vollmer, Jamie Collins and the incomparable Rob Gronkowski were late second round picks by BB. Two are/were All-Pros, and Jamie soon will be too.

Joey007 said:

I don't agree that it was complete. The years after 2009 were progress in the rebuilding. Even 2011 was a rebuild progress still (look at the secondary.) plus a lot of aging vets were stopgaps in that time (Waters Carter Ellis Branch Lloyd) as the youth of that time would continue to grow. (Hightower Jones Collins DMAC Edelman Gronk Solder Vereen)

To be honest last year was the year the rebuilding of a championship team came full circle. The young stars established themselves, and now aside from a couple patches in the secondary we have a championship caliber roster, and not a decent to above average roster that's getting moved forward to being a borderline championship team by the greatness of Tom and BB like we had seen from 2010-2013.

Click to expand...

Transition to rebuild started in 2009, and by 2010 it was in full swing.

The secondary has been stuck in rebuild mode for the last 5 years, and used stopgaps of Revis and Browner last year.

We've been fortunate to have solid players at all positions during the rebuild to allow our rookies of the future to adjust.

deters said:

Transition to rebuild started in 2009, and by 2010 it was in full swing.

The secondary has been stuck in rebuild mode for the last 5 years, and used stopgaps of Revis and Browner last year.

We've been fortunate to have solid players at all positions during the rebuild to allow our rookies of the future to adjust.

Click to expand...

If you're talking about the building to where it is today, it was still rebuilding/transition. The likes of many including Jones Hightower and Collins weren't even on the roster yet.

deters said:

Transition to rebuild started in 2009, and by 2010 it was in full swing.

The secondary has been stuck in rebuild mode for the last 5 years, and used stopgaps of Revis and Browner last year.

We've been fortunate to have solid players at all positions during the rebuild to allow our rookies of the future to adjust.

Click to expand...

By that definition every NFL team is in rebuild mode.

For example from the 2013 team, only 32 players remain that are on the 53 man roster and the 8 man practice squad.

Thats a 52% turnover. Craaaazy

I thought this was going to be a "hate on Ravens" thread?

Seems to be an "off-season" thread instead!

Wheelman said:

Personally I see 2009 as the start of the rebuild. Bruschi, Harrison, Vrabel, Seymour all gone.

Click to expand...

Around here we don't rebuild, we reload!