Gronk/Edelman vs. Moss/Welker

JoeSixPat · Sep 26, 2015

KontradictioN said:
I'd go with the combo that holds the hardware. And that's basically the tie breaker because this is just too close to call. Moss and Welker were a record setting combo that was a fluke helmet catch and a dropped INT way from finishing 19-0.

It just seems to me that as prolific as they were in terms of stats, when games got tight and there was a "must make" play - they didn't.

Gronk/Edelman (and we all should note it's a team sport and thank the OL and other positions as well) always seem to make those plays

I'm going with them

1960Pats · Sep 26, 2015

Chiuba E. Obele said:
Judging from the poll, I think there's a clear consensus that Gronk and Edelmen are more complete players than Moss and Welker. But in order to fully appreciate the greatness of Welker and Moss, you have to consider the context. The addition of just those two players elevated the Patriots to a unapproachable level of dominance by any team before or since. No receiver-duo will ever have that kind of single-season impact.

Gronk and JE are having that kind of impact.

Gronk/JE are true Patriots.
Moss/WW are not.

Gronk/JE won it all.
Moss/WW did not.

1960Pats · Sep 26, 2015

JoeSixPat said:
It just seems to me that as prolific as they were in terms of stats, when games got tight and there was a "must make" play - they didn't.

Gronk/Edelman (and we all should note it's a team sport and thank the OL and other positions as well) always seem to make those plays

I'm going with them

Thus was born the phrase stats are for losers.

RobertWeathers · Sep 26, 2015

1960Pats said:
Gronk and JE are having that kind of impact.

Gronk/JE are true Patriots.
Moss/WW are not.

What is your definition of what a true Patriot is?

moejr · Sep 26, 2015

TBR said:
Don't forget this one too

That's the catch Welker missed in SB46. Same behind the player catch.

1960Pats · Sep 26, 2015

robertweathers said:
What is your definition of what a true Patriot is?

Players that are home grown is a good beginning.

Moss and Welker were great pickups, but they were rental players.

1960Pats · Sep 26, 2015

moejr said:
That's the catch Welker missed in SB46. Same behind the player catch.

Welker reacted the same way as Amendola only he couldn't reach as much of the ball. That tells me that the pass was slightly more behind Welker than Amendola.

ausbacker · Sep 26, 2015

I'm going with Gronk/Edelman mainly because I prefer the flexibility Gronk offers the Patriots (especially his blocking) over Moss and I have a suspicion Edelman offers more flexibility than Welker did outside the numbers.

TommyD4207 · Sep 26, 2015

1960Pats said:
Welker reacted the same way as Amendola only he couldn't reach as much of the ball. That tells me that the pass was slightly more behind Welker than Amendola.

How much more of the ball did Welker need to "reach" past "right in his hands?"

Observer · Sep 26, 2015

I am really toen on this one. On the one hand i think that the gronk/edelman combo gives us more likelihood to beat a variety of different defences whereas with moss and welker it could be feast/famine. On the other hand, Moss ans Welker were extremely reliable in terms of being on the field, injury was never a nagging concern. With gronk and edelman, I am afraid they are going to get hurt every time they play.

RobertWeathers · Sep 26, 2015

1960Pats said:
Players that are home grown is a good beginning.

Moss and Welker were great pickups, but they were rental players.

WW here for 6 years is a rental?

zydecochris · Sep 26, 2015

TommyD4207 said:
It's tough to quantify, because they played different positions, but don't sleep on Moss as a blocker. When he was motivated, he was LaFell-esque out there.

I would argue that the "when he was motivated" part was the issue. I've never heard him compared him to LaFell as a blocker, was he really in that class?

Brady_to_Moss · Sep 26, 2015

I mean...Moss/Welker were a fluke away from a SB..they get that..and it's them IMO

ctpatsfan77 · Sep 26, 2015

1960Pats said:
Players that are home grown is a good beginning.

Moss and Welker were great pickups, but they were rental players.

Neither of them had any choice in where they first played (Welker was claimed off waivers by the Dolphins after the Chargers released him). Heck, Welker might have been a Patriot . . . except they already had Troy Brown.

meatface · Sep 27, 2015

The whole retrospectively saying welker was trash thing is really annoying me, guy was awesome. That being said I feel like gronk has to take the edge just because he has been so unstoppable for longer, moss was awesome in 07, good in 08 &09 and then was gone.

Soul_Survivor88 · Sep 27, 2015

1960Pats said:
Gronk and JE are having that kind of impact.

It took some time before Gronk and Edelmen developed into the kind of players they are today. I think Moss and Welker outdo both of them by the immediate impact they made as soon as they became part of the 07' team.

In just a single season alone, Brady averaged 20 more yards per game, and saw his completion and touchdown percentages rise by an average of 4.9 percentage points and 1.6 percentage point respectively --- averaging nearly a full yard per pass attempt more. One yard per attempt may not sound like much, but that’s about the difference between Peyton Manning (7.7 YPA) and Neil O’Donnell (6.7 YPA).

Welker and Moss clearly elevated Brady's performance like never before....whereas Brady did more to elevate Gronk and Welker, and not vice-versa.

PatCat · Sep 27, 2015

If wes catches that ball this is not a discussion. But since it is I will weigh in. Moss and Welker is my pick as they didn't have the support Gronk and Jules had. Moss is obviously the best receiver to ever grace a pats uniform and Wes was tough as nails before his emotions got involved. My hats are off to Jules and Gronk also, and if you talk superbowls Stop! Malcolm Butler saved the day( as most here assumed we were going to lose like the 07 team) and our cornerback (no names) of 07 didn't and that is about the only difference.

Deflatemyballs · Sep 27, 2015

Chiuba E. Obele said:
It took some time before Gronk and Edelmen developed into the kind of players they are today. I think Moss and Welker outdo both of them by the immediate impact they made as soon as they became part of the 07' team.

In just a single season alone, Brady averaged 20 more yards per game, and saw his completion and touchdown percentages rise by an average of 4.9 percentage points and 1.6 percentage point respectively --- averaging nearly a full yard per pass attempt more. One yard per attempt may not sound like much, but that’s about the difference between Peyton Manning (7.7 YPA) and Neil O’Donnell (6.7 YPA).

Welker and Moss clearly elevated Brady's performance like never before....whereas Brady did more to elevate Gronk and Welker, and not vice-versa.

Comparing their immediate impact isn't fair. It's an apples to oranges situation, randy(29) and Wes(26) both were vets in their prime foaming at the mouth getting to play for a legit quarterback for the first time in years(for randy) or ever(for Wes). Where Gronk and Jules were home grown and Jules had the learning curve switching over from qb as well as having Wes block him for playing time his first few years.

PatCat · Sep 27, 2015

ivanvamp said:
I'd say the degree of difficulty for the Asante Samuel interception was in the same ballpark as the Malcolm Butler play. Samuel was all alone, but the throw was high. It would have been a very nice - not extraordinarily difficult, but very nice - interception. Butler read the play perfectly but endured a very hard collision as he grabbed the ball and held on.

So if Samuel makes his catch and Butler doesn't, the 2007-08 team not only goes down as the greatest team in Patriots' history, but the greatest team in NFL history. And Moss/Welker have their place among the all-time pantheon of WR combos. Meanwhile, if Butler doesn't make the catch and the Seahawks score, Edelman/Gronk still don't have a SB title and the 2014-15 Patriots go down as a nice team that came up a bit short.

In both cases, the offense drove down the field for a go-ahead touchdown with just over two minutes left in the game, and both times the ultimate determining factor was the defense either making or not making a play.

Thank you. And Shane Vereen sure helps matters when Jules and Gronk weren't cooking.

1960Pats · Sep 27, 2015

robertweathers said:
WW here for 6 years is a rental?

He was picked up in a trade from another team and then was let go and went to another team. That defines the term rental.

Gronk/Edelman vs. Moss/Welker

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