Gronk/Edelman vs. Moss/Welker

FourierSeries said:

Gronk/Edelman brought us a SB.

Moss/Welker were failures.

Easy choice.

Click to expand...

Gronk/Edelman wouldn't have brought home the Lombardi without a key defensive stop, the defensive stop didn't happen in 07.

Snake Eyes said:

Gronk/Edelman wouldn't have brought home the Lombardi without a key defensive stop, the defensive stop didn't happen in 07.

Click to expand...

Gronk and Edelman would have helped the team score more than an embarrassing 14 and 17 points.

The offense we have now is a much better matchup against either of those Giants teams.

You can do more with gronk and Edelman. Teams learned how to slow us down when we had moss/welker during the playoffs and bb even said so I think on "a football life".

Snake Eyes said:

Gronk/Edelman wouldn't have brought home the Lombardi without a key defensive stop, the defensive stop didn't happen in 07.

Click to expand...

Gronk / JE11 played against a much better defense though, and still had 28 points. Having a player like Gronk in 2007 would've made a world of difference in the SB. As for SB46, if Gronk was healthy and if Welker doesn't get butterfingers, they also win that game.

FourierSeries said:

Amendola did make that catch.

Click to expand...

Don't forget this one too

Edelman has 48 catches for 475 yards and 3 touchdowns since the start of the 2014 playoffs, plus 40 yards rushing, and 51 passing yards and a passing touchdown. Welker might have caught more 6 yard passes but as far as impact player Edelman is a different level all together.

mgteich said:

We all have our preferences for current players, especially in the first two games of a Super Bowl season. We all believe that the GREAT player won Super Bowls. So, for these folks, Dilfer was a GREAT quarterback and Kelly was a failure.

For me, Moss was one of the two best receivers of all time, and showed it over many, many years. Welker was one of the best slot receivers of all time, and showed it over many, many years. For me, the choice is an easy one: Moss and Welker.

Our great team, the best in the NFL, doesn't have a downfield threat. Of course, we can score touchdowns and great plays and win Super Bowls without a #1 WR who can instantly score a touchdown from anywhere on the field. We have had the discussion of downfield receiver for years. Is LaFell that guy? Is Dobson? Is Amendola (see THE catch). Shouldn't we have acquired such a player? MOSS was the best ever in that role.

Click to expand...

You can't use Dilfer to counterpoint someone's opinion that Gronk/JE may be a better duo than Welker/Moss. Like Moss (who is the greatest non sticky handed receiver), Gronk is the greatest TE the league has ever seen and like Welker, JE is the best slot receiver in the league although I would argue he is better than Welker was.

Anyways both were historically great Duos but only one helped deliver the goods.

On a side note: I think that Welker played concussed at times and in the later years with the Pats may have contributed to a few of his drops. I will always like Welker but I hope for his health's sake he never plays again.

Gronk and Edelman.
I'm a certified Moss hater. He wasn't a football player, just a pass catcher. If he could shut his mouth and block and play 60 minutes 100% he would have been the GOAT but in reality he was just a goat.

I think people forget how good Welker was...and tend to selectively remember a couple of drops instead of the consistency he brought week-in-week-out.

It's crazy to think all four of those guys were on the 2010 team along with he who shall not be named. Moss had mailed it in and was traded, Edelman was a long ways from learning the WR position, and Gronk and that other TE were rookies learning their way. Imagine if they were all in their prime together with Brady. They would have been an unstoppable force.

neuronet said:

I think people forget how good Welker was...and tend to selectively remember a couple of drops instead of the consistency he brought week-in-week-out.

Click to expand...

They do. Its kinda comical. I have no issue choosing Gronk/JE since they won the SB, were homegrown, will probably spend their whole careers here, Gronk is the GOAT at his position, and they seem like much more friendly, approachable, team guys, granted Gronk wont catch Gonzales numbers wise.

It does not help Moss/Welker that they had attitudes, WW dropped a SB sealing catch, said some stupid things, went to the enemy, and Moss flaked out and was selfish.

However that does not take away that WW was one of the greatest WR off all time something you cant say (yet) about JE. While JE is getting it done now WW;s overall body of work is more impressive and I would include him in all time WR talk.

I would have liked to see Moss in his prime here. 22-24 years old just to see what he could have done with TB. Because at his best I think Moss may have been the greatest football player talent wise that ever played.

Also, OT if Brady wins another ring, I think you put him up there with Rice, Taylor, Brown as GOAT FB player off all time.

If it's all about the hardware then it's Branch Givens. Obviously the hardware isn't the only factor.

This team scored 5 TDs in one quarter once. That offense was so explosive it was absurd.

Judging from the poll, I think there's a clear consensus that Gronk and Edelmen are more complete players than Moss and Welker. But in order to fully appreciate the greatness of Welker and Moss, you have to consider the context. The addition of just those two players elevated the Patriots to a unapproachable level of dominance by any team before or since. No receiver-duo will ever have that kind of single-season impact.

neuronet said:

I think people forget how good Welker was...and tend to selectively remember a couple of drops instead of the consistency he brought week-in-week-out.

Click to expand...

Everyone remembers Welker as being for the most part a reliable workhorse. However, we also recognize his "failures" and lack of ability which sets apart Edelman. Both were and are amazing players, but I'm taking the better talent of Edelman all day.

.... Ferrari or Lambo .... flip a coin!

Welker/Moss also played with Ben Watson at TE and Lawrence Maroney at RB.

That failure isn't just on them. When BB said you shut them down and we have nothing he meant it. Last years team was far more diverse. Even if you focus on Edelman then Amendola or Vereen could keep the chains moving.

The Giants had the right defense for that offense.

Moss allowed the Pats to score more than Gronk can in a game, but Moss could be neutralized. There is no way to stop Gronk other than injuring him. So I go with with Gronk and Edelman.

Even if you couldn't cover Moss (and some teams could), you could take him out of a game by consistently pressuring the quarterback. This is probably the biggest reason that deep threats are over-rated in the NFL. Gronk can run routes all over the field, so can still be productive if the opposing team is getting consistent pressure. He can also stay in and make pancakes to alleviate pressure.

When it's all done, Edelman may* not have been quite the slot receiver that Welker's been, but he's more versatile, much better on the outside, a superior punt returner, more clutch and a much better locker room guy than Welker ever was.

Welker/Moss could be stopped, while a healthy Gronk/Edelman can't be. Moss and Welker took the NFL by storm, but by the end of 07, good defenses had figured them out, and their combined production was never the same. Gronk and Edelman keep getting better, and if they can stay healthy for a few more years, it won't even be close.

Gronk's had 68 yards and 1 TD in the SB. Moss had 62 yards and 1 TD in 2007.

Bobsyouruncle said:

Gronk's had 68 yards and 1 TD in the SB. Moss had 62 yards and 1 TD in 2007.

Click to expand...

How many first downs did each have? How many pancakes did each make? Yards and TDs don't tell the whole story for a WR, nevermind a TE that blocks well.