Aaron Dobson

Joey007 · Sep 23, 2015

New England Pride said:
It's unbelievable and it makes no sense

I blame Chad Jackson, Bethel Johnson, Taylor Price, Josh Boyce, Brandon Tate, etc...

Let's face it we've had a lot of draft disappointments at WR the last several years. Im a Dobson supporter, but can you blame them for not thinking "here we go again!" After Dobson spent most of last year hurt and a scratch from games? It's just something we've seen so many times before the last several years out of every receiver not named Edelman.

PatsFan2 · Sep 23, 2015

One thing to note if AaronDobson keeps going down like the Rams receivers or Brandon Lloyd he will definitely last the year.

Deus Irae · Sep 23, 2015

Kdo5 said:
How did he regress during his rookie season? He started with dropped balls during the Jets game and people were bashing him for a while. He improved from then on until he was injured and out for the rest of the season. He did fine (I mentioned the Saints game) and had a five game stretch prior to his injury where he caught more balls than Edelman. He never regressed during his rookie year. That's fiction.

It's not fiction. He clearly regressed. The foot injury may be part of the reason why, but it's still what happened.

Kdo5 said:
Yes of course it is excessive homerism to believe that one player has potential and perhaps is not as bad as he's been made out to be in the past by a sizable portion of the fanbase.

Throwing out a straw man argument doesn't help your case.

mikey m · Sep 23, 2015

captain stone said:
Go look it up yourself in the Draft forum. My feelings were made known at the time.

Bill should've drafted Keenan Allen, plain & simple. It wasn't the first time he failed to maximize
(to put it kindly) a 2nd-round pick, and it certainly wouldn't be the last time either.

I'd rather not but I'll take your word for it. Just doing some last minute edits on my email to the front office informing them that if they are ready to move on from that loony BB-the-GM fellow, captainstone is ready to rock & roll and put the days of draft picks not panning out far behind us.

Ring 6 · Sep 23, 2015

Deus Irae said:
It's not fiction. He clearly regressed. The foot injury may be part of the reason why, but it's still what happened.

Being injured and unable to play is not generally considered regressing.

AzPatsFan · Sep 23, 2015

Deus Irae said:
I gave you a like to counter the dumbassery of whichever commenter was foolish enough to disagree with your post. Moving forward is an unknown, and Allen's knees were reportedly an issue at draft time, but there's no question that Allen's been the vastly superior player to date.

It always depends on what you are aiming to draft. Keenan Allen looked to be a big possession receiver used to running inside slot routes. He also had questionable knees which might limit him some more.

But the Team didn't need another Slot receiver. BB had plenty of those. He was looking for a Big Split End type deep/intermediate receiver who would open up the Offense, and prevent Defenses from collapsing on the short game.

Aaron Dobson is much more suited to such a task. The degree he is successful is questionable though, but he does run those routes that only he and later La Fell are suitable and can do.

AzPatsFan · Sep 23, 2015

HawaiianPatsfan said:
First, you keep asking for "facts" about things that can't really be proven. I sent you a link that reported his route running abilities like you asked.
If you think I don't understand how our offense works, you are just plain stupid. You're the one who seems to be making the claim like there's some highly known fact that Allen can't run routes or has issues learning A playbook. Going by his outstanding ability to find holes and sit in zone coverages, I would be very confident in saying he has a good enough ability to read coverages and make adjustments the Pats offense calls for. We all know the patriots playbook is the hardest to learn in the NFL, but you're making it out to be like you need to be a Genius to get it down.
Not to mention, both Keenan Allen and Aaron Dobson had Wonderlic test scores of 19. So basically they had the same football IQ coming out of college. If you want to try to argue that Dobson was a better college player and had a better, more patriots suited skill set, then I really don't have time to argue with you. Injury concerns aside and going off of his success with the Chargers, I'm confident he would've been a better pick then Dobson.

It still depends on what skill set you are trying to Draft. Keenan Allen was not the KIND of receiver the Pats Coaches felt they needed to round out the team. As BB has often said he is building a Team, and NOT collecting talent.

A missing component of the team was a big deep/intermediate WR, to take the top off of the Defense. They didn't have such a WR, and felt they needed such a talent. Even though that is NOT a particular Brady talent, throwing the long ball; you still need to do it occasionally, to keep the Defense honest.

When Dobson was injured in 2013-2014, the Pats GM went and signed another such talent in Brandon La Fell.

So there is plenty of evidence that BB felt the team lacked such a talent. Keenan Allen was NOT viewed as such a player with that skill set.

AzPatsFan · Sep 23, 2015

captain stone said:
Go look it up yourself in the Draft forum. My feelings were made known at the time.

Bill should've drafted Keenan Allen, plain & simple. It wasn't the first time he failed to maximize
(to put it kindly) a 2nd-round pick, and it certainly wouldn't be the last time either.

Your assertion is ridiculous.

Keenan Allen's talent set as a big slow slot reciever with bad knees, were NOT what the team wanted or lacked. There were alternatives to Aaron Dobson with the skill set BB felt the team needed; but Allen was not such a candidate.

Your bold "ex cathedra pronunciamentos" about what you really know little, grow increasingly monotonous. Sorry, you are not and never will be a GM or talent scout, that could or would succeed in the NFL.

rochrist · Sep 23, 2015

captain stone said:
Go look it up yourself in the Draft forum. My feelings were made known at the time.

Bill should've drafted Keenan Allen, plain & simple. It wasn't the first time he failed to maximize
(to put it kindly) a 2nd-round pick, and it certainly wouldn't be the last time either.

Pretty sure you've never met a pick of Bill's that you liked.

HawaiianPatsfan · Sep 23, 2015

JMC00 said:
Really hope Dobson has a good year to shut some of you up. Although even if he does some of you will still hate him because he wasn't one of your '13 draft binky WRs

I hope he has a good year too. I won't be one bit afraid to back him, or confess my 13 draft predictions as being wrong. However, were in year 3 of a 4 year contract, and so far I've been completely right. Not to mention, who cares if he has 1 good year, hell never pass Allen in total production in that time span, or even come close. So in the end, my "13 binky" still would've been a better overall pick.

Again, I hope Im wrong and will have zero issues admitting so if some miracle happens and he has some Moss like breakout. However, if history is an indication of the future, I doubt thats happening.

HawaiianPatsfan · Sep 23, 2015

AzPatsFan said:
Your assertion is ridiculous.

Keenan Allen's talent set as a big slow slot reciever with bad knees, were NOT what the team wanted or lacked. There were alternatives to Aaron Dobson with the skill set BB felt the team needed; but Allen was not such a candidate.

Your bold "ex cathedra pronunciamentos" about what you really know little, grow increasingly monotonous. Sorry, you are not and never will be a GM or talent scout, that could or would succeed in the NFL.

He was about as big and slow as anyone who has a recent knee injury. Zero possibility of Allen running anything less the a 4.55 if he were clocked today. More then likely the high 4.4's low 4.5"s

HawaiianPatsfan · Sep 23, 2015

AzPatsFan said:
It still depends on what skill set you are trying to Draft. Keenan Allen was not the KIND of receiver the Pats Coaches felt they needed to round out the team. As BB has often said he is building a Team, and NOT collecting talent.

A missing component of the team was a big deep/intermediate WR, to take the top off of the Defense. They didn't have such a WR, and felt they needed such a talent. Even though that is NOT a particular Brady talent, throwing the long ball; you still need to do it occasionally, to keep the Defense honest.

When Dobson was injured in 2013-2014, the Pats GM went and signed another such talent in Brandon La Fell.

So there is plenty of evidence that BB felt the team lacked such a talent. Keenan Allen was NOT viewed as such a player with that skill set.

I get what you are saying about needing a downfield player to keep defenses honest, however Brandon Lafell is not an idea downfield stretch the field type of player. He is no bigger, or no faster then Allen.

AzPatsFan · Sep 24, 2015

I agree that La fell is not truly a speedy. deep/intermediate receiver. That's what you get with a fill-in. But Lafell is tough, a good run blocker, and a semi TE with his size and toughness. He does run the outside routes and is more comfortable in the outside intermediate routes, so he can suffice.

Dobson on the other hand, is a true big, deep speedy outside WR. The only question is his toughness, but I think that will come as his confidence grows.

Why is it that none of the Draftniks allow the usual three years development cycle for the wideouts, the Pats do draft, before they cry bust?

MrNathanDrake · Sep 24, 2015

I worry about Dobsons toughness. He seems flat out SCARED on the field. I hope he isn't another guy who is constantly on and off the injury list. and he needs to do something about those instant flops to the ground after he makes a catch.

I believe their is a ton of potential. He needs to get more comfortable and confident. and games like last weeks will continue to help him build on that.

patsinthesnow · Sep 24, 2015

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/positions/_/id/1/year/2013/wide-receivers

The 2013 draft was atrocious. Check out that list. IMO, it's produced one beast WR1 in Hopkins.

Allen is an up and down player. Tough to say what he is at this point. A solid WR2?

Woods, Williams, Wheaton, C. Johnson at this point are mediocre WR2s.

The rest of the list is composed of busts/irrelevant.

Dobson still has a chance to be one of the best WRs from his class. He seized WR2 snaps from Amendola in week 2 and played well. Rooting for him to break out.

Deus Irae · Sep 24, 2015

patsinthesnow said:
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/positions/_/id/1/year/2013/wide-receivers

The 2013 draft was atrocious. Check out that list. IMO, it's produced one beast WR1 in Hopkins.

Allen is an up and down player. Tough to say what he is at this point. A solid WR2?

Woods, Williams, Wheaton, C. Johnson at this point are mediocre WR2s.

The rest of the list is composed of busts/irrelevant.

Dobson still has a chance to be one of the best WRs from his class. He seized WR2 snaps from Amendola in week 2 and played well. Rooting for him to break out.

?????

Allen had 148 catches for for 1829 yards in his first two seasons, and that's with him not playing 3 games.
Allen has 17 catches on 21 targets in the first two games of this season.

If it's tough to say what he is at this point, we might as well close down the league.

patsinthesnow · Sep 24, 2015

Deus Irae said:
?????

Allen had 148 catches for for 1829 yards in his first two seasons, and that's with him not playing 3 games.
Allen has 17 catches on 21 targets in the first two games of this season.

If it's tough to say what he is at this point, we might as well close down the league.

I wanted him in the first round February predraft, but he's an inconsistent WR1. Chargers fans would say the same. He had five games with less than 30 yards receiving last year and already has one this year.

He's a good player, not a great player yet. I'd name 20-25 WRs I'd rather over him.

Deus Irae · Sep 24, 2015

patsinthesnow said:
I wanted him in the first round February predraft, but he's an inconsistent WR1. Chargers fans would say the same. He had five games with less than 30 yards receiving last year and already has one this year.

He's a good player, not a great player yet. I'd name 20-25 WRs I'd rather over him.

AFC:
Marshall
Edelman (Not going to argue against the Patriots binkie)
Green
Brown
Thomas
Hopkins (maybe)

NFC:
Bryant
Beckham
Nelson
Johnson
Jeffery
Jones

So, he's somewhere in the top 15, or so, at the start of his 3rd year. To repeat:

If it's tough to say what he is at this point, we might as well close down the league.

PatsFan2 · Sep 24, 2015

20-25 patsinthesnow??? I think that's stretching it a bit.

ender24601 · Sep 24, 2015

Deus Irae said:
AFC:
Marshall
Edelman (Not going to argue against the Patriots binkie)
Green
Brown
Thomas
Hopkins (maybe)

NFC:
Bryant
Beckham
Nelson
Johnson
Jeffery
Jones

So, he's somewhere in the top 15, or so, at the start of his 3rd year. To repeat:

If it's tough to say what he is at this point, we might as well close down the league.

I'm not weighing in on the argument really, but I think you forgot T.Y. Hilton. I guess that's arguable though.

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