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Belichick/McDaniels Upend Base v. Nickel Defense Choice?


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SlowGettingUp

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Each year Belichick seems to throw a new wrinkle into NFL game plans. This year maybe it's the 2-tight end spread offense.

Normally a 2-tight end grouping is going to be met with a base personnel package. If it's met with a nickel, then likely you can run on them, so likely most teams will respond with a base package. But then what happens when you spread the field? You are going to get a linebacker in coverage on Gronk and/or Edelman, and we know how that story ends.

Here's Reiss:

What stood out to me was the usage of different personnel groupings and doing unconventional things out of them -- with the primary example coming in the decisive stretch in which the Patriots went ahead 21-7 and ran 11 of 12 snaps with two tight ends on the field but used empty/spread formations/packages to attack the Bills' base defense through the air. Surgical.
The key here is that Gronk and Lewis in particular are Swiss-army knives - Gronk can run block, play as a conventional tight end with a devastating seam route or be spread wide and act as a tremendous WR. Lewis too can act as a conventional first-down back if they are met with a nickel, but can act as a WR against a base.

So the other dimension here is that a spread formation makes fancy blitzes harder to pull off. The ultimate version of this is "scat" protection, where the offensive line declares which five defenders they will block, leaving the quarterback to deal with any unblocked guys by means of a quick throw/hot read.

This is a good quote:

"The more people I crowd in around the QB to get the blitz blocked up, the more people are capable of rushing the passer."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000...-has-ability-to-help-teams-in-pass-protection

Some more discussion of scat blocking here:

http://www.fieldgulls.com/football-...hawks-marshawn-lynch-49ers-nfl-russell-wilson

Be interesting to review the Bills game to see how the blocking worked in these spread formations.

(I'm still very much a novice at this, so please be gentle if I've screwed up my analysis here!)
 
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Was pretty neat to see 12, 13 personnel and even 04 in empty and watch them go vertical. Can't think of the last time that happened, and like you said, not only does it create matchup nightmares but also makes blocking easier for the OL, for the most part.
 
Leading up to the game, I was very concerned about Buffalo's d-line and their ability to pressure Brady up the middle, especially with the Pats starting 3 rookies.

As the game unfolded, it was clear to me that McDaniels had no intention of playing that game. He spread guys out, used the formations and personnel you mentioned in order to slow down the rush by creating mismatches. Brady did his part by diagnosing the defense and getting the ball out of his hands so quickly that the Bills inside rushers figured there is no point in beating their man when the ball will be gone by the time they get to Brady.

Kudos for an actual football related post!
 
No one outside of New England realizes just what a huge pickup Scott Chandler was this off season. This two TE offense will be unstoppable, extremely versatile and unpredictable with Brady's ability to audible. Belichick was onto something before that nitwit Hernandez threw his life away. He finally has the pieces back in place again. This offense and especially Brady could be breaking a lot of records this year.
 
No one outside of New England realizes just what a huge pickup Scott Chandler was this off season.

I would like to see more consistency from Chandler before I make any final judgments. When he was in Buffalo, Bills fans complained that Chandler had stone hands and tended to drop balls. We clearly saw that in the most recent game, when Brady threw to him in the endzone twice, and each time he failed to come down with it, despite having both hands on the ball.

Other than that, I really like the guy. His daughters are adorable! :p
 
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Someone on twobillsdrive made a pretty good thread with detail about how the Pats are running a variation of the air raid offense.

Instead of 4 WR, the Pats are doing it with 2 WR 2 TE.
 
I also love when they use Edleman as the motion to run the ball (from the empty set or even with a RB). Has it ever not worked? Now they have to be concerned he may throw the ball too (though that is so low probability that it's not worth planning for and DBs should stick with their man, but they may see something on film one day).
 
huge pickup Scott Chandler was this off season

I actually asked Matt Chatham about the Gronk/Chandler combo before the season started:

My question:

Could you discuss player synergy - when is some combination of players much better than the sum of their parts? In particular, what will the potential impact be of the Patriots now having *two* Gronk-sized tight ends? (Chandler is actually a bit taller than Gronk). How do you defend a jump ball to a very tall guy anyhow? Why wouldn't that be a routine completion even if the player is on the slow and lumbering side?​

Matt's answer:

-----

Great question, "newton." How players are paired or grouped makes a big difference on their effectiveness - especially as it relates to each individual opponent. This is why matchups are really the most important factor in football - not past records, or venue, or how "hot" a team is.

To use the Gronk & Chandler example, it kind of depends on the opponent. I don't think the combination of these two in the red zone (from the height standpoint alone) would bother the Seattle Seahawks necessarily as much as others because they are tall at the linebacker, safety, and corner spots. A lot of teams may have that one unique "long" defender, so they can weather Gronk with the addition of some help. But the addition of Chandler might create a great mismatch against that kind of team.​
scottchandlerwashingtonredskinsvbuffalowoxrwswislcljpg1427586318503.jpeg

Getty Images

Being too tall though can hurt you as a blocker for leverage, so it's not all positive being tall. It's definitely a plus-minus thing. I think in relation to the Patriots, how they utilize them will be important to whether or not you see that "synergy." There are instances where they could cause a problem for the other team, and there are times where having them on the field together could prevent you from exploiting something else that's a greater weakness for that week's opponent - say, poor secondary depth. In that instance, you may want more of your multiple receiver personnel groups on the field, which usually means one tight end.

Against a team that pressures a lot you would probably lose the benefit of the extra tall player because one would likely have to stay in and protect. If for some reason they were able to both be out in the pattern vs a pressure look, that means the ball is coming out fast for a short (< 5yard?) throw, so Gronk or Chandler might not be the best catch & run options. To what degree they are effective together - the synergy as it were - may depend upon the opponent and whether or not the Patriots use them to the most ideal situation for the two of them. Sometimes that's not the team's number one goal.

For the 'how to defend' part of the question, you probably aren't going to be able to win the jump ball, but you can strip it out before the player comes down with possession - that's probably your best bet as a shorter defender. Just being taller doesn't mean you'll be the highest at the catch point, but it's certainly an advantage. Why you don't see 'jump ball' situations over and over is because many of the defenders simply jump better than the tight ends and can negate that difference with athleticism.​

http://www.footballbyfootball.com/column/fbf-inbox-answered

(I really wish we would see more of Matt Chatham on all the broadcasts - he really does seem the most knowledgeable commentator out there).
 
So in Belichick's review of the Bill's game, he highlights two touchdowns that both involved Gronk and Chandler but in two very different ways.

In the first play (around 5 minutes in to the video) he illustrates great blocks by Gronk and Chandler to allow Lewis a clear path to the end zone. Gronk calmly handles a big end, while Chandler does a big loop to come around to block on the other side of the play.

The second play (the last one in the video) shows Gronk and Chandler both split out wide, causing all sorts of consternation among the Bills. Eventually they double-team Chandler and allow Gronk to come clear coming across the zone.

http://www.patriots.com/video/2015/09/23/belichick-breakdown-week-2-bills

I'm sure they have some clever plays planned involving their newest tight end too - more of a pure blocker and so maybe Hooman's days are numbered.
 
That's interesting. Bill kind of praised Chandler's blocking in his presser too. Looks like he's better in that regard than we were led to believe.
 
That's interesting. Bill kind of praised Chandler's blocking in his presser too. Looks like he's better in that regard than we were led to believe.

I have seen no criticism of Chandler, except on the is board, and from Buffalo fans (who seem to have the same attitudes toward ex-players that we do).
 
In this game at least, his blocking was fine. His catching not so much...

That's fine. I don't expect him to be a beast in the passing game. He might put up about 400-500 yards and will be used quite a bit in the red zone. But at his size, if he can be a good blocker, that will be huge.
 
Based on some of the things I've read in this excellent thread one thing has been lost, or rather not emphasized enough.

The Pats were able to a long way to protect their rookie interior merely by formation design. Think about it. Josh made Rex get out of his greatest match up advantage and he never had to do a bench press, or bulk up to do it. Simply by design he not only had Rex rush only 3 and 4, he made him do it all game long after he knew it wasn't working. The more you think about that, the more stunning it becomes

Marcel Darius (all pro $100MM man) vs David Andrews (undersized UDFA in his 2nd NFL game) How can you NOT base your defense around this enormous mismatch. UNCONSCIOUS ABLE

This game points out one of the key advantages the Pats have within their offensive system of communications and design. They have the capacity to build this plan for last week, and come up with a completely new plan THIS week, designed to combat a completely new set of strengths and weakness from the Jaguars, and how they affect the strengths and weakness we currently are operating with ourselves.

Josh forces the D to do things that HE wants them to do, NOT necessarily what might be best for their own team just by formation. The Dude got a scary mind, and I'm hoping he REALLY will be happy to stay here until BB goes, because "offers WILL be made".

Think about the several articles and stories from "Do your job" to this that keep showing us exactly WHY, the Pats can do what they have done over the years, and none it involves cheating. They are so damned smart, focused innovative, and unselfish, that they don't need to.
 
I have seen no criticism of Chandler, except on the is board, and from Buffalo fans (who seem to have the same attitudes toward ex-players that we do).

There has been some criticisms of his non catches in the endzone and some regarding his blocking ability but overall not too much.

From what I've seen, and I'm a rookie when it comes to schemes, Chandler has been an effective player. He had one of the key blocks on the Lewis TD and he somehow received double coverage during the Gronk TD although I attribute that to the Bills D being confused on coverage because of the play design.

I love these type threads. I have always been a fan but have never broke the game down as much. It's a new level of understanding.
 
Marcel Darius (all pro $100MM man) vs David Andrews (undersized UDFA in his 2nd NFL game)

It would be fascinating to re-watch the game looking at just how this match-up went. Did Andrews generally have help? Or could he hold up by himself for the 1.8 seconds Brady needed? What was the spacing of the defensive line (one of the links above suggested that scat blocking uses a wider spacing)?

Every new wrinkle has some defensive counter. Would it help for the defense to not allow the underneath receivers a free release off the line? That presumably would increase the time before Brady is rid of the ball.
 
Is there a good book explaining formations, strategy etc...

If there was one book to read which one would you guys suggest?

Thanks in advance.
 
It would be fascinating to re-watch the game looking at just how this match-up went. Did Andrews generally have help? Or could he hold up by himself for the 1.8 seconds Brady needed? What was the spacing of the defensive line (one of the links above suggested that scat blocking uses a wider spacing)?

Every new wrinkle has some defensive counter. Would it help for the defense to not allow the underneath receivers a free release off the line? That presumably would increase the time before Brady is rid of the ball.
All good questions. I don't know any of the answers, but I'd sure wish I had some. ;)
 
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