Idle thoughts: Part 2 - Rex eposed.....FINALLY, we hope.

slam · Sep 21, 2015

b. The second one, which might have changed things was Collins' safety. I saw that play a couple of times, but never enough or slow enough to determine if it was a S. It sure looked line one. And what are the rules. Does just the ball have to be cross the plane,, or is it the feet. If its the feet, does the entire foot have to be across, or just the toe. Help a brother out,

I think it's pretty straightfowardly the correct call. Taylor is standing on the one yard line when he gets knocked backwards, but he gets forward progress to the one. If he was a receiver who caught a ball at that spot and got knocked back in the same manner, it would be marked at the one and no one would give it a second thought.

Sicilian · Sep 21, 2015

patfanken said:
a. The first one was that 3rd and 5 the Pats ran on the Bills GL at the end of the game. LGB made a nice hard run and the OL provided a soft spot and LGB ran for 4 and a half yds.....according to the refs. I think we got a really bad spot. According to the measurement we only missed it by about 3 inches. I thought I saw the ref move the ball back about a half yard, and when I saw a quick replay, I thought I knew why.

Blount got that half yard scrambling for that last half yard after he hit the ground. But DID he?. I contend that Blount never hit the ground. He got that last half yard falling over bodies and his knew never it the ground, the refs didn't see it from the side, and Bill should have challenged it.. Am I right about this. Did I see it correctly? Help a brother out.

I don't think his knee hit the ground, but it looked like his elbow/forearm did as he rolled over the bodies. I couldn't see if that should have been marked further, but it did look like he inched forward a few feet AFTER that forearm hit, so I think ultimately the spot was correct.

patfanken said:
b. The second one, which might have changed things was Collins' safety. I saw that play a couple of times, but never enough or slow enough to determine if it was a S. It sure looked line one. And what are the rules. Does just the ball have to be cross the plane,, or is it the feet. If its the feet, does the entire foot have to be across, or just the toe. Help a brother out,

Was going to say what Slam said in the post above me.

Mark. · Sep 21, 2015

patfanken said:
. Just a couple of added thought that didn't get through my fatigue last night,

1 We really didn't have anything to complain about the officials yesterday. The game was called fairly even. Even the 2 PI's I didn't like, I certainly understood them. BUT...there were 2 plays that were important and I need some help clearing up in my head.....especially from those of you who DVR games and can go over them more closely.

a. The first one was that 3rd and 5 the Pats ran on the Bills GL at the end of the game. LGB made a nice hard run and the OL provided a soft spot and LGB ran for 4 and a half yds.....according to the refs. I think we got a really bad spot. According to the measurement we only missed it by about 3 inches. I thought I saw the ref move the ball back about a half yard, and when I saw a quick replay, I thought I knew why.

Blount got that half yard scrambling for that last half yard after he hit the ground. But DID he?. I contend that Blount never hit the ground. He got that last half yard falling over bodies and his knew never it the ground, the refs didn't see it from the side, and Bill should have challenged it.. Am I right about this. Did I see it correctly? Help a brother out.

I thought the same as you. He never touched the ground. May have been hard to overturn with all the bodies in there though.

AzPatsFan · Sep 21, 2015

Thsi game and also the Cardinal's game raised an issue for me that needs clarification.

In both cases an Extra Point conversion kick was executed successfully. But Offsides was called against the Defense and a meaningless 5 yards assessed on the subsequent KO. But what if the team accepted the penalty, took the "half the distance to the goal", and then dismissed a one yard extra point attempt, for an attempt at a two point conversion. Could it be done? Making it in from the One is probably much easier than from the Two.

As a Coach would you take down the successful One point and go for the Two ?

PatsDeb · Sep 21, 2015

b. The second one, which might have changed things was Collins' safety. I saw that play a couple of times, but never enough or slow enough to determine if it was a S. It sure looked line one. And what are the rules. Does just the ball have to be cross the plane,, or is it the feet. If its the feet, does the entire foot have to be across, or just the toe. Help a brother out,

I didn't understand why that wasn't a safety either. He was clearly tackled in the endzone. The only thing that might have happened is they blew the whistle when he was in the grasp (?). I thought the officials were pretty incompetent (just let them play for cripes sake), but their incompetence was fairly even-handed. I think we got screwed out of a safety and a free kick there.

Ice_Ice_Brady · Sep 21, 2015

I am just glad Collins FINALLY decided to show up this year. Gosh, it's been such a long season, how many duds could he go before showing up? I won't even point out that he was in pass coverage/contain in week 1. Jeeesh tough crowd.

Ring 6 · Sep 21, 2015

PatsDeb said:
b. The second one, which might have changed things was Collins' safety. I saw that play a couple of times, but never enough or slow enough to determine if it was a S. It sure looked line one. And what are the rules. Does just the ball have to be cross the plane,, or is it the feet. If its the feet, does the entire foot have to be across, or just the toe. Help a brother out,

I didn't understand why that wasn't a safety either. He was clearly tackled in the endzone. The only thing that might have happened is they blew the whistle when he was in the grasp (?). I thought the officials were pretty incompetent (just let them play for cripes sake), but their incompetence was fairly even-handed. I think we got screwed out of a safety and a free kick there.

It was not a safety because when he was hit he was standing outside the endzone. The hit drove him back. Its a forward progress issue.

Ring 6 · Sep 21, 2015

Ice_Ice_Brady said:
I am just glad Collins FINALLY decided to show up this year. Gosh, it's been such a long season, how many duds could he go before showing up? I won't even point out that he was in pass coverage/contain in week 1. Jeeesh tough crowd.

And he played very well against Pittsburgh.
Some people think defensive players played as well as the numbers under sack and int show.

Ring 6 · Sep 21, 2015

AzPatsFan said:
Thsi game and also the Cardinal's game raised an issue for me that needs clarification.

In both cases an Extra Point conversion kick was executed successfully. But Offsides was called against the Defense and a meaningless 5 yards assessed on the subsequent KO. But what if the team accepted the penalty, took the "half the distance to the goal", and then dismissed a one yard extra point attempt, for an attempt at a two point conversion. Could it be done? Making it in from the One is probably much easier than from the Two.

As a Coach would you take down the successful One point and go for the Two ?

I believe you can take the penalty then decide to go for 2 from the 1 1/4 yard line.

Wax Frog · Sep 21, 2015

OT - who is Martha?

bresna · Sep 21, 2015

Since this is the "Idle thoughts" thread, could someone explain to me why Rex accepted the illegal motion penalty on the Pats after Brady threw the ball backwards out of bounds about 3 yards behind the line of scrimmage? I believe it was during the Patriots second drive when they had the ball 1st & goal on the 10. Decline the penalty and it's 2nd and goal on the 13. Accept it, and it's 1st and goal on the 15.

Tuck · Sep 21, 2015

Tunescribe said:
I think the Patriots need to consider another mid-season Talib-type trade for a solid corner. I have no idea who or from what team, but it could prove a difference maker down the stretch.

Ummm, yeah that's a good idea. They really need to consider trading a fourth to someone for a pro bowl corner. I don't understand why they haven't done this already.

Fencer · Sep 21, 2015

patfanken said:
5. What was best about the Pats 8 sacks this game, pretty much none of them occurred because of a missed block or assignment (maybe one or two) - but MOST of them because of constant and persistent pressure that kept on coming against an elusive target. That tells us not only was the secondary doing a good job, and that allowed the DL to slowly roll up and over Taylor like a Tsunami rather than a lightning bolt. Most of those sacks were "team" sacks rather than individual.

How did the Bills score all those points?

Soul_Survivor88 · Sep 21, 2015

Fencer said:
How did the Bills score all those points?

Because our defense took their foot off the pedal towards the end of the third quarter and resorted to playing a vanilla "prevent" defense... it was atrocious to watch

Fencer · Sep 21, 2015

patfanken said:
c. The coaching was just outstanding. No only the game plan was sound in general, whatever adjustments Josh made starting in the 2nd drive; were only beat by the adjustments Matt P contrived aft that first one.

patfanken said:
IMHO Fletcher's mistakes were just as much Matty P's as his.

This team has thrived on not asking its players to be responsible for more than what they can physically do. Right now we aren't doing that with Bradley Fletcher. I think the fairer thing would be to blame the scheme a lot more than the player.

Have you two met?

Fencer · Sep 21, 2015

Chiuba E. Obele said:
Great post, but you forgot to mention the several dropped passes by the receivers, including the two dropped passes by Scott Chandler in the end zone.

Edelman's getting more flak for his drops than Chandler, when the other way around would be much fairer.

Perhaps this is because Edelman called attention to his drops himself, or maybe it's just because he's more highly thought of (and visible) as a player.

patfanken · Sep 21, 2015

Fencer said:
How did the Bills score all those points?

That's what I thought. 8 sacks, 3 picks, more than a half of shut out ball. How the f**k, do they wind up with 32 points?

Let's take a closer looks (but not a close look.

)

1. The 1st TD, they blew us out.
2. The 2nd TD was the PI

and that takes us to garbage time

3. The 3rd TD the key play was the other PI, iirc
4. The 4th TD were a few GT runs and the long pass to Watkins over Fletcher.
5. The 5th TD was precipitated by the fumble by Tom and a scramble throw by Taylor

I think that's right, but if not close enough. The bottom line, that except for the first drive, the rest of the Bills offensive scores came due to penalites, long passes, and garbage time long runs. All of them, IMO, easily corrected. and most self-inflicted

IIRC The Pats gave up around 480 yds to the Steeler's offense. I think the number vs tge Bills was about 380, That's an improvement, so we got that going for us.....at least

patfanken · Sep 21, 2015

AzPatsFan said:
Thsi game and also the Cardinal's game raised an issue for me that needs clarification.

In both cases an Extra Point conversion kick was executed successfully. But Offsides was called against the Defense and a meaningless 5 yards assessed on the subsequent KO. But what if the team accepted the penalty, took the "half the distance to the goal", and then dismissed a one yard extra point attempt, for an attempt at a two point conversion. Could it be done? Making it in from the One is probably much easier than from the Two.

As a Coach would you take down the successful One point and go for the Two ?

First thanks for those who answered my questions. I know understand that he was clearly outside the endzone and was knocked back.

The LGB run is still less clear, but I'm comfortable it might have been an elbow issue, though it still would be nice to see a clip, like we did the sack.

As far as your question, AZ, from time immemorial (or when the 2 point option was put in) if there was a defensive penalty on the extra point, the kicking team would have the OPTION to have the ball moved to the one and then go for two. I can only assume that now that the extra points are being spotted on the 15, if there is a defensive penalty there, the offensive team will STILL get the option for the ball to be placed on the one, and have an OPTION to go for 2. I also imagine that they will also have the option to move the ball 5 yds close and try the kick from there.

But I'm afraid until we get the very unlikely situation where we have BOTH a missed extra point and a penalty on the same play, we won't see a double option like that. (kick from the 10, or go for 2 from the 1). Now what's the chances of THAT happening. certainly WELL under 1%

I hope that answers your question

Tunescribe · Sep 21, 2015

Tuck said:
Ummm, yeah that's a good idea. They really need to consider trading a fourth to someone for a pro bowl corner. I don't understand why they haven't done this already.

OK, smart guy. You make it sound like trading for a corner is a crazy idea. I gave the Pats' in-season trade for Talib as an example. Why can't it happen again? It's shaping up as a position of dire need.

Tuck · Sep 21, 2015

Tunescribe said:
OK, smart guy. You make it sound like trading for a corner is a crazy idea. I gave the Pats' in-season trade for Talib as an example. Why can't it happen again? It's shaping up as a position of dire need.

I'm agreeing with you. It's a great idea. So who's got a pro probowl corner that can be had for a fourth this year?

Idle thoughts: Part 2 - Rex eposed.....FINALLY, we hope.

In the Starting Line-Up

PatsFans.com Supporter

PatsFans.com Supporter

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

PatsFans.com Supporter

I heard 10,000 whispering and nobody listening

PatsFans.com Supporter

PatsFans.com Supporter

PatsFans.com Supporter

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

PatsFans.com Supporter

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

Pro Bowl Player

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

Pro Bowl Player

Pro Bowl Player

PatsFans.com Supporter

PatsFans.com Supporter

PatsFans.com Supporter

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

Similar threads