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Frontline Report on Football and CTE injuries


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I don't doubt the social growth resulting from participating on a well coached team in any sport. However, consider the impact of head trauma on youths whose growth is not yet complete coupled with medical resources significantly inferior to what is available to the pros. Granted, we have no hard numbers, but now that we know of the risk, who wants their kid to be the guinea pig? There are other sports and activities that yield the social benefits of team sports participation.
Fully agree about the social growth of being on a well coached team. But you can most likely get that in flag football too. Or whatever other sport where kids who are still learning to move well don't have to run into each other at full speed.
 
I think the heads up football program is needed even in the older groups. There's so many ****ty tacklers that go head first into tackles, and then sit there 30 years later with CTE problems. When people learn to tackle, they should learn to do it properly. And children shouldn't start tackling at age 6 or something like that. Give them a helmet after 10, or whatever age is good. Then really focus on proper tackling and not going in head first. Even at that age I think it's important for parents that their kids learn to tackle in a way that reduces concussions by a lot, or so I hope.
The thing is that it's not necessarily only the head first tackles that cause long term brain injury. From the link in the tweet at the start of this thread, talking about injuries to those playing on the line from the less dramatic, but more repetitive head banging:

"That finding supports past research suggesting that it’s the repeat, more minor head trauma that occurs regularly in football that may pose the greatest risk to players, as opposed to just the sometimes violent collisions that cause concussions."​
 
I think the heads up football program is needed even in the older groups. There's so many ****ty tacklers that go head first into tackles, and then sit there 30 years later with CTE problems. When people learn to tackle, they should learn to do it properly. And children shouldn't start tackling at age 6 or something like that. Give them a helmet after 10, or whatever age is good. Then really focus on proper tackling and not going in head first. Even at that age I think it's important for parents that their kids learn to tackle in a way that reduces concussions by a lot, or so I hope.
I couldn't agree more with Madden. I don't think a kid should put on a helmet until the 7th grade at the earliest, and I'd be fine with a year or two later. I never wore a helmet until my freshman year in HS.

As to your comments on tackling, i couldn't agree more. I have gone nuts over the poor tackling technique I seen in the NFL. Not only is it dangerous to see all tackles being made with head down, its just bad and ineffective football. Yet on every level I see players tackling with their head down, or throwing themselves at legs of a player and hoping for the best. It infuriates me. The only surprise I have is that we don't get more head and neck injuries

Now I understand why. It's because the NFL has invested so much money in these players. they feel the need to limit all contact. The problem is that its hard to coach tackling without any contact, though you can limit it. During my playing career as a LB, DE. NT, and SS, I ALWAYS led with my head. But I was fully confident because I was leading with my face mask, which put my head and neck in the best position to absorb a blow. I played football for 11 years and competitive lacrosse for close to 3o years more. I lived to hit people and the ONLY time I ever got "my bell rung" was when I put my head down. I might have had one concussion in all those years, and that didn't cause me to miss a game, so it might not have been a concussion.

I truly believe that if players were better schooled in good tackling techniques, the game would be not only much safer, but better played. However I don't have a lot of hope in this area and won't until the game at its highest level, takes the time to teach and enforce proper tackling techniques. Every week I see dozens of players I would have pulled from the field if I saw them tackle the way they do. The NFL is the highest level of the sport, why do they allow players to tackle in a way that was unexceptable to a HS coach from the 80's. The day I saw Vince Wilfork put his face into the chest of a QB and get flagged for it, I knew the beginning of the end had come. It was a perfect form tackle and he was punished for it.
 
There is an entire league of towns in Texas who have gone to using the Head's Up program for everything but their Varsity HS teams... And wouldn't you know it.. They don't have the concussion issues they used to have, even at the HS level..
 
The NFL better release another report bashing the Patriots to distract people from this.
 
The problem with testing college and high school brains is you have to wait until they're dead to do so. Seeing the 18 year old high school football player who had CTE in the Frontline episode was jarring. I don't know if they'll ever come up with a way to test for CTE while someone is alive but I hope they do. You're not getting the answers to those questions, as the nfl hopes, until that is done. Until then, the sample size is going to remain quite small.

Yes, actually, there are now lots of people - including us - looking for serum or other non invasive biomarkers that correlate with CTE. There are studies already taking place were football players and other contact athletes are giving blood and have agreed to donate their brains to science. A lot of the work now is in animal models and correlating changes in serum with the severity of a concussion.
 
It's still a lucrative job that probably doesn't crack the top 100 for most dangerous jobs. Loggers die for 30K per year.
 
I was talking with a friend about Stork being IR'ed and how it came in a bad time with all this talking surrounding the world of football, he must be scared or at least very thoughtful when a few years ago that would be just another day at the office, I believe we will see an increasing number of players retiring early in the next few years, maybe after cashing in one contract after their rookie contracts end up, or maybe cashing in just this rookie money that today, for 4 years, should be an average of 2Mi.

Think about Edelman, he's had concussions and we know how he plays the game, in full speed and high intensity, taking a lot of hard hits, every time there is a video of Edelman with microphones capturing the play, there's a lot of helmet collisions noise, very loud sometimes. When this current contract expires, he will be around 32, and with 16Mi in the bank. Even though older, I think he could still be productive in the right system, maybe even better than Welker that was Ok until playing with Manning. Then I think it's very reasonable to think that he could just walk away. Had his fun, played for years in the league, caught a SB winning TD and got his money. That's it, no need to play any extra snap in order to get every possible penny out of football. A guy ripped like him, in his 30's, could still play for years in the current state of sports medicine and products like supplements for recovery. I just think more and more players are going to be influenced by all these things coming out, and probably it's the right thing, to be worried., because the NFL doesn't care.
 
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If you haven't seen the frontline story watch it http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/league-of-denial/

If I were Stork I would retire. I played and have had a few concussions in my life. My last one was a year ago when I hit my head on a low door frame. The more you have the easier you get them. My son did not play even though the coaches begged him to, I never forbade him but I never encouraged him and am glad he did not. I may have stopped him if he wanted to play. One of his friends had concussion problems with hockey and now he is a 20 year old kid with problems.

This will spell the end as we know it at some point. Australian rules football is a good substitute.

Football is like heavyweight boxing in the 80s.



While I was living in Asia I started watching Rugby and it is a fun to watch rugged game. Cricket on the other hand .........not for me.

American Football is the by product of Rugby. It will be interesting to see if American Football slowly begins to evolve/ devolve back to its rugby roots. Less padding, less head contact (although most rugby players seem to have cauliflowered ears). Less massive collisions. Football is my number one sport but as I get older I increasingly care about the toll it takes on a lot of these players and would not mind a safer game.
 
Rugby Union players (not league that's a different sport, where Hayne came from) get cauliflower ears because of the scrums, rucks & mauls.

The NFL/Football doesn't have any of those so the cauliflower ears shouldn't be an issue because they aren't in Rugby League.
 
What does this mean for the future of the sport and our enjoyment of it. A few random thoughts:
  • Even more than now, the sport will attract those from a lower socio economic stratus who are willing to take the risk (or do not understand that risk).
  • What must be going through Bryan Stork's mind?
  • Why don't I feel more guilt in the enjoyment of this sport?


Very few quarterbacks from this era will have to deal with CTE....but every other position will.

I think this sport will change dramatically in the near future...and that's ok. Nothing lasts forever and it would be very selfish if fans resisted dramatic change.

This is one instance where the term "Think about the children" is very relevant.
 
It's still a lucrative job that probably doesn't crack the top 100 for most dangerous jobs. Loggers die for 30K per year.

The 10 Deadliest Jobs:


1. Fishers and related fishing workers

2. Logging workers

3. Aircraft pilot and flight engineers

4. Refuse and recyclable material collectors

5. Roofers

6. Structural iron and steel workers

7. Farmers, ranchers, and other agricultural managers

8. Drivers/sales workers and truck drivers

9. Electrical power-line installers and repairers

10. Taxi drivers and chauffeurs
 
Very few quarterbacks from this era will have to deal with CTE....but every other position will.

I think this sport will change dramatically in the near future...and that's ok. Nothing lasts forever and it would be very selfish if fans resisted dramatic change.

This is one instance where the term "Think about the children" is very relevant.
What does this mean for the future of the sport and our enjoyment of it. A few random thoughts:
  • Even more than now, the sport will attract those from a lower socio economic stratus who are willing to take the risk (or do not understand that risk).
  • What must be going through Bryan Stork's mind?
  • Why don't I feel more guilt in the enjoyment of this sport?



Just finished watching this and it is just a horrifying documentary. As a parent I am fortunate enough to have seen this information in time to make informative decisions regarding my children's participation in sports. Parents in the past did not have that luxury.

I don't fully understand the NFL's plight to sweep this under the rug. Is it a fear of the cost of disability claims by former players? Is it the fear of parents saying no to football? Wouldn't the NFL's future be slightly brighter if they were truly in front of this instead of appearing to be the 2nd coming of the tobacco industry?

The NFL looks slimier by the day.
 
Like I've been saying ever since I saw the Frontline special….enjoy football while it lasts because its days are numbered.

It will definitely change. It has to.
 
Here is MY problem with the CTE report and your comments. I would accept that in this era when players are so extraordinarily big and fast that the kinds of collisions you'd expect to see, could very well cause CTE, especially for players who play over several years and have lots of these extreme collisions. I think an important question to ask about these brains would be, how many years did they play NFL ball?

Here is my problem with your comments. You used these facts out of context to influence your actions with your son, and I believe robbed him of a very valuable experience. I wonder if they took the brains of men who just played HS AND college football, what the percentage of CTE you'd find. You'd expect that % to be much lower. What about 80 guys who JUST played in HS, You'd think the % would be much lower than that.

No question, the kind of collisions you are exposed to in the NFL ARE a risk. But a risk you are getting very well paid for. Much more in fact than other occupations that carry a similar health risk. But I cry out for the risk rewards ratio of the HS game. Given the relative size and speed differences, HS football doesn't pose nearly the risk that would be worth NOT getting the valuable experience and life lessons the game of football can offer. If you played HS ball, you should know how valuable they were,

I coached high level HS ball for close to 20 years as an assistant and HC. I was also a great teacher as well. But I never could teach the kind of life lessons that live with you forever in the class room that I could on the field. It's the lesson of the value of teamwork. It's the lesson of overcoming adversity. It's the lesson that the sum is always greater than the individual parts. It's the lesson of how to overcome fear, pain, and other people's expectations. It's the lesson of perseverance. It's the lesson of growing and getting better, both physically and emotionally. Its the lesson of getting knocked down and and getting up again Not only that, I got to be with most of those kids 3 or 4 years, not just the one you get as a classroom teacher.

On my best days as a classroom teacher I could impart some information (History) I could get a few to recognize what has happened in the past has a direct impact on the present and future. I could help improve and encourage reading and memorization skills. I could help teach them HOW to learn, and hopefully inspire them to want to know more.....about anything. And do it all without the internet and Google. ;) But that is hard to do in just 40 minutes a day (at best) and less than 10 months to do it.

As a coach I would get them for close to 3 hours a day, for almost 4 months and created a connection that lasted the rest of the year regardless of what other sports or activities they participated in. You had a direct influence on these kids all year round. That's why if a football player screwed up somehow, even if was April, YOU were the one the administration or other teachers would come looking for to straighten it out.

Well, Dr Pain, I've gone one of my long winded rants. Sorry about that., The bottom line is I would suggest that you put that Frontline report in context. I would suggest that you revisit your fears of letting your son play, and put them into the context of the HS arena vs the NFL arena where the risk of CTE are MUCH much higher. Keep this in mind. Very soon you are going to give your son the keys to the car, where he is in MUCH greater risk of head injury than he ever is going to be on the football field. If you were to be completely consistent, you'd never let him drive, or even get into a care with another teen driver, if you are going to discourage him from playing even indirectly. n JMHO

....and I'm done. ;)


I agree with the impact you as a coach can have on a kids life and I also agree with the valuable life lessons that can be learned but they can also be acquired in other safer sports. The problem with this documentary is twofold: 1, We do not know the to what extent a brain can be damaged due to multiple impacts received during a game or season. 2. We do know that the NFL is blockading the research necessary to find out the truth behind CTE. (It wasn't until Roger sat in front of congress did the NFL recognize that there may be some correlation between football and CTE)

Knowing what you know now would you have coached differently? I ask that respectfully by the way. I can imagine from what you wrote that you enjoyed coaching because of the impact you had on those kids lives and that is admirable.
 
Some of the NFL players have alternatives. Others, surely don't. What is better : risking head injury by competing a few years in the league while making substantial cash or wasting away in a rough neighbourhood in a dead end job, or no job at all ? Some players might prefer the risk.


As long as they are aware of the consequences then sure.
 
Bill Simmons ‏@BillSimmons 2h2 hours ago
Time for the NFL to create another DeflateGate-type story to deflect everyone's attention from that Frontline report.

This time last year, I'd have laughed at this suggestion. But the way the Balt/Indy deflategate was launched, nothing would surprise me.

How's this for a scenario? Crying Tomlin's crew plants a listening device hidden somewhere in the locker room last week. Either the Jags or Jets as the next home opponents find this bug and report it to the league.

This will so enrage the sheeples, even next years elections will take a back page and with the start of the 2016 season and the now 31 NFL teams the entire populace of our great nation won't know what CTE is.

Ok....please tell me I've gone mad.
 
I agree with the impact you as a coach can have on a kids life and I also agree with the valuable life lessons that can be learned but they can also be acquired in other safer sports. The problem with this documentary is twofold: 1, We do not know the to what extent a brain can be damaged due to multiple impacts received during a game or season. 2. We do know that the NFL is blockading the research necessary to find out the truth behind CTE. (It wasn't until Roger sat in front of congress did the NFL recognize that there may be some correlation between football and CTE)

Knowing what you know now would you have coached differently? I ask that respectfully by the way. I can imagine from what you wrote that you enjoyed coaching because of the impact you had on those kids lives and that is admirable.
That's the problem WE DO NOT KNOW - Over the years millions of kids have played HS football. It it were as dangerous an experience as you imply, wouldn't CTE have become a major national health hazard by now. The fact is we DO know that the major cause of head trauma among teens,. isn't football, ii's car crashes. So I have to ask, where is the outrage against teens in cars? How many parents are rallying to keep their kids out of cars and out of cars with teen driving? There is none because all that outrage been focused on football,even though there is no actual information to justify it.

Possible CTE issues that seem to plague former NFL players who have played football over 20 years most against much bigger and faster competition and far greater collisions just don't apply to kids playing 4 years playing HS.....and the millions who played the games without CTE is proof. Sure it is anecdotal, but its hard to deny.

Now I'm not saying that football isn't a contact sport where injuries are possible. Of course it is, but have we become SO weak that we demand a risk free existence? How long will we remain a great culture when the only time we deal with risk is when we watch someone else take one on TV????

Bottom line, I believe that the risks of playing HS football don't come close to the potential rewards, both long term and short./ My major complaint with the Frontline report and the comments about it, is that they never make the distinction between the risks of play HS football and playing long term in the NFL. It bothers me because the LACK of that distinction will keep a lot of kids from playing a great game.that has been a valuable experience for many people
 
The parents are the only ones who can make the choice for their children when it comes to sports.

The main problem that I see is when the kids get in the hands of the wrong coach. Even coaches with good intentions can have a negative impact on a kid's safety and development. Sadly, there are also coaches lacking good intentions.

As for football at the highest level, seeing all of what I've seen of cte and the NFL, it's just another reason to get nauseous every time I see Fraudger gives those new arrivals a big hug and a handshake, like he's their best pal in the world.
 
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