Dump on me all you want, I think Krafty is a little smarter than he's given credit for

shmessy · Sep 18, 2015

Ivan said:
I have actually taken crap for defending Kraft but to Ray anyone who doesn't accept his theory that Kraft is secretly implementing his master plan to remove Goodell is a dope.

OK, calm down. I and others have been able to argue the same point with Ray and not get personal on this, so can you.

vyrago · Sep 18, 2015

ctpatsfan77 said:
Based on everything he's said, what appears to be the case is that he was under the impression that accepting the penalties on the team would result in a lessening/undoing of the suspension upon appeal.

And it should be clear to us by now that Goodell lies. Obviously, he had no problem lying to his ( formerly) greatest supporter. It will be interesting to see how it works its way out.
Btw, those of you in the spineless chorus, just what is it you wanted Kraft to do and how effective do you believe your desired actions would have been?

MassPats38 · Sep 18, 2015

Sorry, Ray. I absolutely agree that Kraft has been the best owner of this team, and has done plenty of good things in that regard. That history buys him some slack in decisionmaking.

With that said, I see nothing in the handling of Deflategate that would persuade me to believe he is playing chess here. He backed the Commissioner publicly after his mishandling of Rice. That not only was dumb, but it put the Pats name in a Ravens problem, synonymous with callous disregard for DV claims. This donation would appear to be a mea culpa on that, nothing more.

He was photographed walking alone with Goodell at the owners meeting when fans were fuming. He then is reported talking to Berman after a favorable decision with Brady (anyone who has ever dealt with an attorney should know that is going to find its way into a motion to recuse if this case ever returns to that judge after appeal). In both cases, the two people had to be there, but the effects of looking chummy in no way inure to the benefit of Brady or the team if you have any sense of PR issues.

I cannot profess to have studied the team's ability to appeal, even after making the statement he would not appeal. Is that effort shut down by the CBA, even now, under the circumstances? Is the evidence of the equipment handler 'misconduct' any better than Brady's evidence? If not, then why do you believe it was pointless to appeal the decision? Why would it be pointless to fight for that now, given the double talk going on with those two targets and who precisely suspended them?

If you read the statements he has made in the course of Deflategate, please explain how that represents more than a person who completely misreads public opinion and his fanbase. The final PR push reflects an acknowledgement he may have finally clued in to that. Do I believe he may have initially trusted the Commissioner in error? Sure. But what level of trust exercise would make you risk your billion dollar business and its well-being in giving up a valuable commodity in the hope you would be taken care of in the end? Wouldn't you want to know the what's and when's of these events? How long do you let this go on before you question that decision, and take some action?

I have stated from the beginning I am open for an explanation for all this, other than the obvious. All the evidence available (his statement and actions) suggests his decision-making is either naive, clueless or self-interested (meaning he has an ally in Goodell and has declined to pull the trigger on decisions in an effort to save Goodell or save himself). I don't hate him for that, but I certainly will not celebrate that he has handled any of this well. I submit if you are hoping for the story that explains how his decision-making with the Commissioner will one day be actions for the good of the team or game, then you may be waiting a long time for that day as it likely will never come.

Armchair Quarterback · Sep 18, 2015

Goodell's not getting fired, especially not by something engineered by Kraft. The Patriots were recently valued by Forbes at $3.4 billion, up 23% from the previous year, with a team revenue of $494 million. League revenue was up another $1.5 billion last year. He has promised owners to reach $25,000,000 a year in revenue by 2027. The owners, including Kraft care only about that. It doesn't matter that they're all billionaires already, it doesn't matter that Goodell is destroying the actual game, all that matters is he has convinced the greedy billionaires that he is the one person that can make them even more obscenely wealthy, he created his own job security by appealing to their greed. They've put money above all else. Nothing else matters.

IllegalContact · Sep 18, 2015

RayClay said:
Maybe people here watch to many Stallone and Arnold movies. Life doesn't work that way, people.

I'm with you........If Bob Kraft was the guy many clowns paint him to be, there would no longer be a football team in this area

Bunch of spoiled, thankless babies who will jump ship when the Pats have a downturn

TinhWoodhead · Sep 18, 2015

canthetopictitlebeanylonger

IllegalContact · Sep 18, 2015

MassPats38 said:
Sorry, Ray. I absolutely agree that Kraft has been the best owner of this team, and has done plenty of good things in that regard. That history buys him some slack in decisionmaking.

With that said, I see nothing in the handling of Deflategate that would persuade me to believe he is playing chess here. He backed the Commissioner publicly after his mishandling of Rice. That not only was dumb, but it put the Pats name in a Ravens problem, synonymous with callous disregard for DV claims. This donation would appear to be a mea culpa on that, nothing more.

He was photographed walking alone with Goodell at the owners meeting when fans were fuming. He then is reported talking to Berman after a favorable decision with Brady (anyone who has ever dealt with an attorney should know that is going to find its way into a motion to recuse if this case ever returns to that judge after appeal). In both cases, the two people had to be there, but the effects of looking chummy in no way inure to the benefit of Brady or the team if you have any sense of PR issues.

I cannot profess to have studied the team's ability to appeal, even after making the statement he would not appeal. Is that effort shut down by the CBA, even now, under the circumstances? Is the evidence of the equipment handler 'misconduct' any better than Brady's evidence? If not, then why do you believe it was pointless to appeal the decision? Why would it be pointless to fight for that now, given the double talk going on with those two targets and who precisely suspended them?

If you read the statements he has made in the course of Deflategate, please explain how that represents more than a person who completely misreads public opinion and his fanbase. The final PR push reflects an acknowledgement he may have finally clued in to that. Do I believe he may have initially trusted the Commissioner in error? Sure. But what level of trust exercise would make you risk your billion dollar business and its well-being in giving up a valuable commodity in the hope you would be taken care of in the end? Wouldn't you want to know the what's and when's of these events? How long do you let this go on before you question that decision, and take some action?

I have stated from the beginning I am open for an explanation for all this, other than the obvious. All the evidence available (his statement and actions) suggests his decision-making is either naive, clueless or self-interested (meaning he has an ally in Goodell and has declined to pull the trigger on decisions in an effort to save Goodell or save himself). I don't hate him for that, but I certainly will not celebrate that he has handled any of this well. I submit if you are hoping for the story that explains how his decision-making with the Commissioner will one day be actions for the good of the team or game, then you may be waiting a long time for that day as it likely will never come.

who cares what you are open for .... you write this long diatribe while confessing to not know what you need to know to diatribe this way

people just need to step off the train when it stops at 'thanks Bob for doing your part in making the Patriots what they are today'

IllegalContact · Sep 18, 2015

cuz.....like......it was awesome having a family like this own the team

PatsWickedPissah · Sep 18, 2015

The Kraft PR squad here keeps alluding to super secret behind the scenes machinations by Kraft vs Goodell or whatever.
There is zero evidence that this is taking place.
Instead, we get almost daily releases of serious accusations against the Patriots by "team sources" owners, GMs, etc. We read that this was an issue even before Spygate and has continued unabated since Spygate with this latest loss of #1 & #4 picks a continuation of punishment for "taping" god knows what but which in reality was simply unauthorized camera placement. Rational observers would conclude that any supposed behind the scenes efforts by Kraft have been either nonexistent (my take) or spectacularly ineffective.
We also have the data point that Kraft's meek acquiescence to league record sanctions against the Pats did nothing towards getting TFB's suspension reduced. Contrast Tommy Boy's punishment vs female abusers and their ilk.
Basically, the Kraft rump swabs have unicorn horns evidence that Bob is working behind the scenes, not that any such effort would meet with success given the FACT that during the 21st century Bob has stood by haplessly as owner after owner, team after team have been meeting in Competition Committee meetings and other venues spreading virulent falsehoods about the Patriots, completely unchecked.
Bob is utterly clueless at best.

primetime · Sep 18, 2015

RayClay said:
Well, at least you concede that a multibillionaire is a better businessman than you. baby steps.

Maybe if NashuaPat had a billionaire father-in-law who bequeathed to him a major privately-held corporation, he would be a good businessman too.

MassPats38 · Sep 18, 2015

IllegalContact said:
who cares what you are open for .... you write this long diatribe while confessing to not know what you need to know to diatribe this way

people just need to step off the train when it stops at 'thanks Bob for doing your part in making the Patriots what they are today'

It's called a discussion thread, so I suggest you start with the OP and the discussion it invited. I was addressing that. If you like Ray's opinion and disagree with mine, then try to articulate an argument using your big boy words and actual facts instead of an unintelligent non-reply to the post. And if you get "not know what need to know" from this, then read it again. I wrote from what has happened publicly to date (facts, not fiction), I disagree with Ray's theory, citing facts. I would like to believe otherwise, but the evidence is not really there (that is what I don't know, as in facts to support Ray's view). There is the Cliff Notes version for the reading impaired. Now you don't have to actually read my 'diatribe' to reply.

And I could really care less what your opinion is on whether we should or should not reply in a discussion (the fact I have not to date asked your permission to post should make that statement unsurprising). And as you cared not to read my diatribe, then trust your reading comprehension for the first two lines and accept that I believe he is a good owner and the issue is limited to his handling of this, specifically because the OP raises that issue. I am not asking for a new owner, if that is what your limited comprehension skills deduced.

IllegalContact · Sep 18, 2015

MassPats38 said:
It's called a discussion thread, so I suggest you start with the OP and the discussion it invited. I was addressing that. If you like Ray's opinion and disagree with mine, then try to articulate an argument using your big boy words and actual facts instead of an unintelligent non-reply to the post. And if you get "not know what need to know" from this, then read it again. I wrote from what has happened publicly to date (facts, not fiction), I disagree with Ray's theory, citing facts. I would like to believe otherwise, but the evidence is not really there (that is what I don't know, as in facts to support Ray's view). There is the Cliff Notes version for the reading impaired. Now you don't have to actually read my 'diatribe' to reply.

And I could really care less what your opinion is on whether we should or should not reply in a discussion (the fact I have not to date asked your permission to post should make that statement unsurprising). And as you cared not to read my diatribe, then trust your reading comprehension for the first two lines and accept that I believe he is a good owner and the issue is limited to his handling of this, specifically because the OP raises that issue. I am not asking for a new owner, if that is what your limited comprehension skills deduced.

it's funny......the opinion that matters the least here is yours......it is irrelevant to everyone including yourself....the only thing you can control in this is whether or not you wish to remain a fan

PittPatriot · Sep 18, 2015

RayClay said:
Because he's established a charity that points out the low point of Goodell's career and goodell can't possibly do anything about it, unless he wants to come out in favor of domestic violence or, specifically, hitting ones future wife with a left hook and dragging her from an elevator/

Ray-I know what you are saying, but I don't think anyone (esp the media) cares. Maybe the owners will take note (but nobody cares) but 1.5M in that circle is a weekend getaway trip.

If you google "Kraft domestic violence donation" then you only get a few Boston based outlets reporting it. Nobody else knows and nobody else cares. Your initiative to emboss a positive Kraft seal on the low point of Goodell's career is not even registering on anyone's radar. All the public remembers: Goodell and the NFL care little about women and domestic violence. They just care about public perception.
http://thinkprogress.org/sports/201...al-conduct-policy-is-a-public-relations-ploy/

And it is on that point where New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft, who was on the committee that helped design the new policy, gave away the game.

The owners, Kraft said at a Wednesday press conference, considered handing that authority to an independent arbitrator. But they ultimately decided, he said, that an arbitrator was a “one-off” figure who “can compromise or water down what our best interests are.” Instead, the owners left the authority with Goodell because the commissioner is “the one person who understands the long-term best interests of the game,” Kraft said.

It is almost impossible, given the events of the last six months, to see that as anything but an admission that this is about public relations. That’s exactly what “the best interests of the game” are.

Patsfanin Philly · Sep 18, 2015

IllegalContact said:
who cares what you are open for .... you write this long diatribe while confessing to not know what you need to know to diatribe this way

people just need to step off the train when it stops at 'thanks Bob for doing your part in making the Patriots what they are today'

Some of us are concerned with. "Where they will be tomorrow" this constant bashing "damages the brand" and while it may help the other 31 by keeping it in the news, it cannot help the Patriots to be labelled as cheaters. It could take decades to overcome it....spy gate was 8 years ago and people bring it up like it was yesterday.

IllegalContact · Sep 18, 2015

Patsfanin Philly said:
Some of us are concerned with. "Where they will be tomorrow" this constant bashing "damages the brand" and while it may help the other 31 by keeping it in the news, it cannot help the Patriots to be labelled as cheaters. It could take decades to overcome it....spy gate was 8 years ago and people bring it up like it was yesterday.

so how would Bob Kraft stop that?

not sure you recall, but people were hating on the pats and us fans prior to spygate.......to me, nothing has changed......bunch of jealous wannabees......it's like anything else 99% of the noise is coming from 1%....you'll never change that

honestly, I've grown quite comfortable with the 'hate' ....... it's so fabulously pathetic and the stories are getting better

IllegalContact · Sep 18, 2015

what's so petty is the idea of a few symbolic but otherwise meaningless word from Bob Kraft is going to change anything.....

his priority should be to please a bunch of yahoos on a message board....LOL

Ivan · Sep 18, 2015

IllegalContact said:
what's so petty is the idea of a few symbolic but otherwise meaningless word from Bob Kraft is going to change anything.....

his priority should be to please a bunch of yahoos on a message board....LOL

His priority should be protecting the reputation of his franchise, coaches, and players, and on this issue he failed to do so and essentially convicted them by capitulating. You don't have to take my word for it as he already apologized for being so naive. Kraft has done a great deal for Patriot fans but for some reason still refuses to call bullsh.t on Goodell while the league continues to drag the Patriots through the mud. Goodell just signed off on the appeal to screw Brady and maintain his article 46 powers so I don't know where the idea that Kraft is fighting back comes from unless you count Goodell saying he would consider reduced power, which given his lust for it and track record of lying I give zero credence to.

IllegalContact · Sep 18, 2015

Ivan said:
His priority should be protecting the reputation of his franchise, coaches, and players, and on this issue he failed to do so and essentially convicted them by capitulating. You don't have to take my word for it as he already apologized for being so naive. Kraft has done a great deal for Patriot fans but for some reason still refuses to call bullsh.t on Goodell while the league continues to drag the Patriots through the mud. Goodell just signed off on the appeal to screw Brady and maintain his article 46 powers so I don't know where the idea that Kraft is fighting back comes from unless you count Goodell saying he would consider reduced power, which given his lust for it and track record of lying I give zero credence to.

the thing is, I don't really care..........I think it is a ridiculous waste of time for people to rail on things there are no control over......

the league has gone through enormous pains to impose parity and they have everything but

you have one team that has been kicking ass both on the field and from a franchise economic standpoint.....something like this was bound to happen

if you believe the whole thing to be bullsh1t then why does the noise matter.......the impartial people don't have a problem with the pats........and the haters? drive them insane for all I care.......if they cling to hope that it was something other than sheer incompetence that has made their team suck, why should I care?

flasox27 · Sep 18, 2015

RayClay said:
Well, I don't think he would want everything he does explained. I think he's pretty damned embarrassed by the whole situation.

Part of that embarrassment he caused, but the situation itself is absurd and i don't think anyone could have predicted it, except people on messageboards, I guess.

Some of us have been predicting that Goodell was a corrupt biased POS since 2007. Kraft was not only oblivious to the fact but became one of his most prominent supporters. For all his financial prowess, he is an extremely poor judge of character regarding the POS and the Pats and its fans are paying and will continue to pay the price for this weakness. Since the likelihood of Goodell being removed is negligible, the only resolution is for Bob to go into the sunset and let some one like Jonathan who is not tainted by the stink of Goodell run the team.

Ivan · Sep 18, 2015

IllegalContact said:
the thing is, I don't really care..........I think it is a ridiculous waste of time for people to rail on things there are no control over......

the league has gone through enormous pains to impose parity and they have everything but

you have one team that has been kicking ass both on the field and from a franchise economic standpoint.....something like this was bound to happen

if you believe the whole thing to be bullsh1t then why does the noise matter.......the impartial people don't have a problem with the pats........and the haters? drive them insane for all I care.......if they cling to hope that it was something other than sheer incompetence that has made their team suck, why should I care?

I think it sucks that players and coaches who have absolutely busted their asses to become great and become champions are being demeaned and dragged through the mud continually, they deserve better. Personally I just don't talk football with anyone who tries to go down that road but I would like to see Kraft either fight back through words and actions or pass the team over to Jonathan, who I believe wants to be far more aggressive in response. The fact that teams are routinely violating league bylaws by making unfounded accusations against the Patriots with absolutely no response from the league office, as well as the appeal in the Brady case demonstrates that they are still out to get them, and at this point the Patriots should be doing more than just taking it.

Dump on me all you want, I think Krafty is a little smarter than he's given credit for

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