Rex's Press Conference re: Pats

Triumph · Sep 17, 2015

wizwor said:
Like everyone on this forum, and every other football forum, doesn't talk about how many Superbowls 'we' won. If you are on the team and you got a ring, then you won a Superbowl.

The Pats waterboy is going for 5 then. All other NFL waterboys envy him.

When Rex was hired by the Jets he bragged that he knew how to win Super Bowls because of his Daddys 85 championship.

IcyPatriot · Sep 17, 2015

shmessy said:
LMFOA! Rexy counting SB's won as an assistant coach to SB's won as a player or a HC!!! The Ryan family, therefore, is a DYNASTY!!!!

Just to be fair Belichick's boat is named VI Rings.

Nunchucks · Sep 17, 2015

I don't get the hate for Rex. I'd we did not have Belichick, he would be an excellent head coach

shmessy · Sep 17, 2015

IcyPatriot said:
Just to be fair Belichick's boat is named VI Rings.

He's not using that as a comparison to someone else to whom he's using a different measurement.

Rex did....claiming his "1" to BB's "4".

If Rex is going to stand up there and compare, it's got to be apples to apples. Here he was putting his thumb on the scale, reminiscent of Exponent with the ruler on the gauges.

Look, as I've said, I truly like Rex and am glad he's around. He's great entertainment, but the truth is the truth.

Ring 6 · Sep 17, 2015

Nunchucks said:
I don't get the hate for Rex. I'd we did not have Belichick, he would be an excellent head coach

Interesting comments, considering he is the complete opposite of BB in almost every facet of being a HC.

Nunchucks · Sep 17, 2015

AndyJohnson said:
Interesting comments, considering he is the complete opposite of BB in almost every facet of being a HC.

So is Pete Carol....There is more than one way to be successful in the NFL

Ring 6 · Sep 17, 2015

RelocatedPatFan said:
You miss the larger point by dwelling on your continued focus on Revis ( 2nd time I saw the Revis argument made by you as to the reason the team made it to the playoff. how'd that work out for Tampa in 2013? ).

I'm not missing anything. I am saying Rex Ryan is the most overrated defensive coach ever. Pointing out Revis is pointing out that the success was due more to talent than coaching, since without him, he has failed miserably.

Let me boil my thoughts down for you.

Rex comes into a team with talented players on defense or signs them via draft/FA

Mostly ignored the offense and focuses on Run with a QB who is serviceable or worse

is a "players" coach and gets them amped up and believing for a season or two (with some success)

Has poor drafts and success on offense and eventually gets in trouble with the cap

Lasts a couple more seasons based on initial success and some end of season wins

Moves on

I don't agree with #3. His history in NY was that the lockerroom was out of control, and imploded. His level of success in his first 2 years is not much of an accomplishment when looked at as part of a 6 year failure.

Otherwise, yes, if he inherits talent it will underperform but have some level of success, and then deteriorate as he gets his philiosphy, system, culture and coaching in place.

Success for the Bills (and Jets) is/was making the playoffs. I realize we as Patriots fans have a different measure, but from other teams in the AFCE, post season appearances are almost as rare as apologies from the NFL*.

I disagree. Success is success. Rex Ryan did not take the Jets job saying if I lose more than I win, make the playoffs 2 times in 6 years, and leave with the franchise in shambles, that would be good because we are the Jets and we shouldn't expect to be any good.
He took over a pretty good team and watched it consistently slide to the bottom of the league. He will do the same in Buffalo. He is a loser, who spends his time and energy telling you what great things he is going to do then goes out and fails.

Ring 6 · Sep 17, 2015

Nunchucks said:
So is Pete Carol....There is more than one way to be successful in the NFL

Pete Carroll is absolutely not the opposite of Belichick.
Yes there is more than one way to be successful in the NFL. Rex Ryan has proven that being Rex Ryan is not one of them.

Nunchucks · Sep 17, 2015

AndyJohnson said:
Pete Carroll is absolutely not the opposite of Belichick.
Yes there is more than one way to be successful in the NFL. Rex Ryan has proven that being Rex Ryan is not one of them.

2 AFC Championship games in a row...with crap for QB. If you think that is "luck" or whatever that is your prerogative. I do not let hate of a rival cloud my vision. I happen to believe is an excellent coach that gets the most out of his players. I will not let his inability to find a QB worth a darn influence my opinion...most coaches suffer from the same problem.

Ring 6 · Sep 17, 2015

Nunchucks said:
2 AFC Championship games in a row...with crap for QB. If you think that is "luck" or whatever that is your prerogative. I do not let hate of a rival cloud my vision. I happen to believe is an excellent coach that gets the most out of his players. I will not let his inability to find a QB worth a darn influence my opinion...most coaches suffer from the same problem.

So you are one that agrees with "AFC Championship Game Particpant" Banners?
I am not.
He made the playoffs 2 times in 6 years, and one was only because his last 2 opponents sat all of their starters.
That is not a good coach. That is not a record of success.
His defenses the last 4 years have ranked 24,19,20,20 in points allowed.

See I believe a coach is judged by accomplishments, not the excuses you can make for failures. I'm pretty sure part of his job was the QB position. If you want to call a coach good because he failed because of the reason he failed, that is up to you.

But just so we are on the same page, you are considering making the playoffs your first 2 years then missing 4 years in a row, to be the stuff of 'excellent' coaching?

Just curious, what has he done that makes you think he is 'excellent'? Is it because he told you he was?

Calling him an excellent coach is insulting to coaches who actually are.

Canuck · Sep 17, 2015

Bill has always had kind words to say about Buddy Ryan and his two sons. Because Rob was a linebackers coach with the Patriots from 2000-2003, Rex knows from his brother how the Patriots really operate. He knows they are excellent not because of cheating but because of how well coached the team is. I think Rex is a great defensive mind and a great motivator. I don't think he is a great talent evaluator on the offensive side. Rex is what I call a player's coach. He wants to be one of the guys. This approach works in the beginning but adversity and time usually takes a toll and team performance takes a nose dive.

It wouldn't surprise me if the Bills won but I think the Pats win a close tightly contested game.

Nunchucks · Sep 17, 2015

AndyJohnson said:
So you are one that agrees with "AFC Championship Game Particpant" Banners?
I am not.
He made the playoffs 2 times in 6 years, and one was only because his last 2 opponents sat all of their starters.
That is not a good coach. That is not a record of success.
His defenses the last 4 years have ranked 24,19,20,20 in points allowed.

See I believe a coach is judged by accomplishments, not the excuses you can make for failures. I'm pretty sure part of his job was the QB position. If you want to call a coach good because he failed because of the reason he failed, that is up to you.

But just so we are on the same page, you are considering making the playoffs your first 2 years then missing 4 years in a row, to be the stuff of 'excellent' coaching?

Just curious, what has he done that makes you think he is 'excellent'? Is it because he told you he was?

Calling him an excellent coach is insulting to coaches who actually are.

His team has competed in every game, they don't quit and they play fantastic defense. By your standards, only 1 team of 32 has a successful season. That just is not a realistic evaluation of coaching. Most teams do not have hall of fame quarterbacks.

As for the other years of missing the playoffs...losing to the Patriots twice a year is tough for the record and it isn't easy to gain a wildcard birth when the top two teams in the AFC are going 13-3 or 14-2 and you are trotting out Sanchez at your QB and your best receiver is terrible or hurt all the time. You just are not being realistic about the NFL, in my opinion.

patfanken · Sep 17, 2015

Here's the thing. The truth is Rex is not NEARLY as good as Nunchucks paints him to be, or NEARLY as bad as Andy (and sometimes myself) would like to think. There are things he excels at and things that seem to be critical failings that have shown up over time, so we know them to be facts. Here is a balance sheet.

The Good

1. He is a superb communicator, especially with the media. He knows how to get his message across. When he first came to the Jets he made them instantly relevant and created the kind of excitement that boosted tickets sales and interest among the fans. He's done the same thing in Buffalo.

2. He is a superb defensive mind who proved he can stop good offenses both in Baltimore and NJ. What he did vs the Pats in 2010 AFCDG was Rex at his best. Granted it was only one game, and in the next 5 meetins the Pats scored 30+, but that was an unstoppable offense that was stopped in a big game. Maybe a better example are the 2 very close, low scoring losses last year with simply horrible defensive talent. Bottom line, the guy can coach defense.

3. He is a good motivator, especially in the short term (first couple of years)

4. He has the ability to take the heat off his team and put it squarely on himself

The Bad

1. He doesn't pay attention to the details - This is reflected mostly in his game management results, which are weak. You can literally count on his teams losing a TO they shouldn't or there being at least one substitution penalty, but it also shows in other aspects of his game. You'd think it would improve, but even after 6 years you kept seeing the same issues. So much so, that in the end, even Jet fans started to notice.

2. Players/coaches aren't held accountable you could see that issue throughout his entire run with the Jets. At its worst you got the debacle of a player walking off the field and the HC not knowing about a huge problem in his lockerroom. (2013 IIRC)

3. He doesn't know about coaching the offense. This one was the one I found most curious, because if you don't understand what makes offenses tick, you can't be as good a defensive coach as he is. You HAVE to know all about offensive theory to play good defense, yet he consistently coached some of the worst offenses in the league.for 6 years. basically I think he just gave to offense to the OC and lived with the results. I think this is what he's done with Roman, and I think it's lazy.

4. Not a good personnel guy. His drafts were routinely bad, for the most part. He wisely let others take the blame for them, but GM or not, Rex had a big hand in the results of Jets' drafts and they weren't good.

5. Long term Rex has proven he will eventually throw just about everybody under the bus to protect himself. That includes, players, coaches, and front office personnel. So while EVERYONE loves Rex at first, 3 or 4 years down the road, everyone starts to see the real Rex.

BOTTOM LINE: If you have a bad team and you need to put some energy into both the team and fan base, Rex would be a great hire. The problem is that Rex is a better builder than a maintainer (the hard joh), and over time all his warts will be revealed. In other words Rex is JUST what the Bills needed this year. They have a talented team, and Rex won't fu#ck that up, But if they think Rex is going to bring them long term success, they got the wrong guy. The fact is in 5 or 6 years the Bills will be looking for his replacement.

1960Pats · Sep 17, 2015

Jim Colclough fan said:
You're right........Rex is great. Question some of his time management, game decisions and overt loyalties, but he has great soundbites and he has strong media skills. He's good for Buffalo, they need someone like him to re-invigorate the fan base.

He's over matched and he knows it. Have to give him credit............. he keeps it interesting

The fans of Buffalo deserve a coach who'll give them wins, not soundbites.

Talk is cheap and he (and his team) always does the most talking.

Ring 6 · Sep 17, 2015

Nunchucks said:
His team has competed in every game, they don't quit

Huh? They were 26-38 the last 4 years. Players actually have quit, Santonio Holmes wouldn't go in the game.

and they play fantastic defense.

Not true.
The last 4 years they were ranked 24,19,20,20 in points allowed. When you allow more points that 70% of the league, you aren't playing fantastic defense. He also is ranked 29th in takeaways, so I'm not sure how fantastic that is.

By your standards, only 1 team of 32 has a successful season.

Not close to what I said.

That just is not a realistic evaluation of coaching. Most teams do not have hall of fame quarterbacks.

Many teams do better than 2 playoff berths in 6 years, with one only happening because 2 opponents benched their starters. Many teams do better than 26 wins in 4 years.

As for the other years of missing the playoffs...losing to the Patriots twice a year is tough for the record and it isn't easy to gain a wildcard birth when the top two teams in the AFC are going 13-3 or 14-2 and you are trotting out Sanchez at your QB and your best receiver is terrible or hurt all the time. You just are not being realistic about the NFL, in my opinion.

So in your opinion, realistically not having a winning record for 4 straight years is 'excellent coaching' when you can say your QB sucks and you have to kiss the ring of the Patriots and chalk up 2 losses.

I'll ask again, aside from meaningless platitudes that have no factual basis and are insulting to an intelligent decision, what has he done that you consider excellent coaching?
Are you honestly saying that being in the bottom 30% of defenses makes him excellent? Are you honestly saying that losing, but from your living room you think they tried hard is 'excellent coaching'?

I get that you love Rexy, but come on, no one with a clue is calling what he has done as a HC excellent. It was an abject failure. That is why he was fired.

foreboding · Sep 17, 2015

AndyJohnson said:
I'm not missing anything. I am saying Rex Ryan is the most overrated defensive coach ever. Pointing out Revis is pointing out that the success was due more to talent than coaching, since without him, he has failed miserably.

I don't agree with #3. His history in NY was that the lockerroom was out of control, and imploded. His level of success in his first 2 years is not much of an accomplishment when looked at as part of a 6 year failure.

Otherwise, yes, if he inherits talent it will underperform but have some level of success, and then deteriorate as he gets his philiosphy, system, culture and coaching in place.

I disagree. Success is success. Rex Ryan did not take the Jets job saying if I lose more than I win, make the playoffs 2 times in 6 years, and leave with the franchise in shambles, that would be good because we are the Jets and we shouldn't expect to be any good.
He took over a pretty good team and watched it consistently slide to the bottom of the league. He will do the same in Buffalo. He is a loser, who spends his time and energy telling you what great things he is going to do then goes out and fails.

This is patently untrue.

1. Jets were ranked 6th in the NFL in total defense last year, despite a pretty empty cupboard
2. He was not making the personnel decisions and admitted that he 'allowed' it to happen
3. Bill Belechik was not very successful in his HC gig either, he learned and evolved
4. Rex Ryan was the Def Coordinator for the Ravens, who were pretty good as you recall

Look, no one disputes how good BB is as a HC. Does not mean Rex sucks or even that he might be elite, time will tell, he started strong and then lost control with what as we have seen, was a pretty dysfunctional front office in NY.

Ring 6 · Sep 17, 2015

patfanken said:
Here's the thing. The truth is Rex is not NEARLY as good as Nunchucks paints him to be, or NEARLY as bad as Andy (and sometimes myself) would like to think. There are things he excels at and things that seem to be critical failings that have shown up over time, so we know them to be facts. Here is a balance sheet.

The Good

1. He is a superb communicator, especially with the media. He knows how to get his message across. When he first came to the Jets he made them instantly relevant and created the kind of excitement that boosted tickets sales and interest among the fans. He's done the same thing in Buffalo.

He didn't make them relevant, he made himself an attention whore.
Promising things and failing to deliver is not a superb communicator, it is a buffoon.

2. He is a superb defensive mind who proved he can stop good offenses both in Baltimore and NJ. What he did vs the Pats in 2010 AFCDG was Rex at his best. Granted it was only one game, and in the next 5 meetins the Pats scored 30+, but that was an unstoppable offense that was stopped in a big game. Maybe a better example are the 2 very close, low scoring losses last year with simply horrible defensive talent. Bottom line, the guy can coach defense.

How does a 'superb defensive mind' go through a 4 year period, after building the defense he wants, where he is 24,19,20,20 in points allowed and 28th in takeaways?
The 2 most important stats and he was terrible at both for 4 years.
I know he will tell you he is good, but what happens on the field disproves it.

3. He is a good motivator, especially in the short term (first couple of years)

There are no facts to support or deny this, its just made up.

4. He has the ability to take the heat off his team and put it squarely on himself

I dont even know what that means. Actually he places heat on his team because of his bombastic predictions that he never achieves. Are you saying because BB does the opposite in the media he puts heat on the players? Of course not.
Standing up and saying stupid things so the media quotes you does nothing to help your players play.

Ring 6 · Sep 17, 2015

foreboding said:
This is patently untrue.

1. Jets were ranked 6th in the NFL in total defense last year, despite a pretty empty cupboard

The Jets were 24th in points allowed.
This is part of why Rex fails. He (and you) love to throw out yardage stats while allowing bunches of points and never taking the ball away. His defensive philosophy is not consistent with winning football games.

2. He was not making the personnel decisions and admitted that he 'allowed' it to happen

He coached the team. Do you really think they didn't ask him about personell?

3. Bill Belechik was not very successful in his HC gig either, he learned and evolved

Different cases. By your argument every losing coach is Belichick in waiting. Thats crazy.

4. Rex Ryan was the Def Coordinator for the Ravens, who were pretty good as you recall

He was the least successful DC they had during those years.

Look, no one disputes how good BB is as a HC. Does not mean Rex sucks or even that he might be elite, time will tell, he started strong and then lost control with what as we have seen, was a pretty dysfunctional front office in NY.

He failed in NY, and he is stupendously overrated as a defensive coach. What might possibly happen in the future is irrelevant to assessing what he is today.

1960Pats · Sep 17, 2015

Nunchucks said:
I don't get the hate for Rex. I'd we did not have Belichick, he would be an excellent head coach

patfanken said:
Here's the thing. The truth is Rex is not NEARLY as good as Nunchucks paints him to be, or NEARLY as bad as Andy (and sometimes myself) would like to think. There are things he excels at and things that seem to be critical failings that have shown up over time, so we know them to be facts. Here is a balance sheet.

The Good

1. He is a superb communicator, especially with the media. He knows how to get his message across. When he first came to the Jets he made them instantly relevant and created the kind of excitement that boosted tickets sales and interest among the fans. He's done the same thing in Buffalo.

2. He is a superb defensive mind who proved he can stop good offenses both in Baltimore and NJ. What he did vs the Pats in 2010 AFCDG was Rex at his best. Granted it was only one game, and in the next 5 meetins the Pats scored 30+, but that was an unstoppable offense that was stopped in a big game. Maybe a better example are the 2 very close, low scoring losses last year with simply horrible defensive talent. Bottom line, the guy can coach defense.

3. He is a good motivator, especially in the short term (first couple of years)

4. He has the ability to take the heat off his team and put it squarely on himself

The Bad

1. He doesn't pay attention to the details - This is reflected mostly in his game management results, which are weak. You can literally count on his teams losing a TO they shouldn't or there being at least one substitution penalty, but it also shows in other aspects of his game. You'd think it would improve, but even after 6 years you kept seeing the same issues. So much so, that in the end, even Jet fans started to notice.

2. Players/coaches aren't held accountable you could see that issue throughout his entire run with the Jets. At its worst you got the debacle of a player walking off the field and the HC not knowing about a huge problem in his lockerroom. (2013 IIRC)

3. He doesn't know about coaching the offense. This one was the one I found most curious, because if you don't understand what makes offenses tick, you can't be as good a defensive coach as he is. You HAVE to know all about offensive theory to play good defense, yet he consistently coached some of the worst offenses in the league.for 6 years. basically I think he just gave to offense to the OC and lived with the results. I think this is what he's done with Roman, and I think it's lazy.

4. Not a good personnel guy. His drafts were routinely bad, for the most part. He wisely let others take the blame for them, but GM or not, Rex had a big hand in the results of Jets' drafts and they weren't good.

5. Long term Rex has proven he will eventually throw just about everybody under the bus to protect himself. That includes, players, coaches, and front office personnel. So while EVERYONE loves Rex at first, 3 or 4 years down the road, everyone starts to see the real Rex.

BOTTOM LINE: If you have a bad team and you need to put some energy into both the team and fan base, Rex would be a great hire. The problem is that Rex is a better builder than a maintainer (the hard joh), and over time all his warts will be revealed. In other words Rex is JUST what the Bills needed this year. They have a talented team, and Rex won't fu#ck that up, But if they think Rex is going to bring them long term success, they got the wrong guy. The fact is in 5 or 6 years the Bills will be looking for his replacement.

I can't agree with #4 of the good. His mouth doesn't take pressure away from his team, it adds pressure. He doesn't have to go out onto that field and defend his idiotic soundbites and personal shots at other players.

I can see the real Rex and haven't cared for his loud mouth from the beginning. Unfortunately, he takes after Buddy.

His egotistical approach showed up in the post game locker room when he called for a game ball to the owner for having the guts to hire him.

patfanken · Sep 17, 2015

1960Pats said:
I can't agree with #4 of the good. His mouth doesn't take pressure away from his team, it adds pressure. He doesn't have to go out onto that field and defend his idiotic soundbites and personal shots at other players.

I can see the real Rex and haven't cared for his loud mouth from the beginning. Unfortunately, he takes after Buddy.

His egotistical approach showed up in the post game locker room when he called for a game ball to the owner for having the guts to hire him.

I can't disagree. #4 was a throw in to balance the scales a bit, and I remember a few people mentioning that comment in some other Buffalo threads. I need a 4th reason so it was added.

Again. I would only hire Rex Ryan to be my HC if my franchise has been down for a while and I needed to add some electricity to my fan base and players. I would make the decision knowing that I will likely need to make a change in 4-6 years for my team to reach the next level and beyond. Hopefully after his first year, I would like to think that I could help him overcome those flaws.

In the end, Rex is good enough to be a HC in the NFL. And even though he's over rated, he does somethings well, and others.....not so much. His biggest failure is not being self aware enough to begin to admit and correct those weaknesses. When you think on it, the fact BB WAS self aware, was key to his ability to correct his Cleveland errors and continue to grow over the last 15 years. Rex is what he is, and that seems to be all he will be. That's probably why Rex should always be enjoyed, but NEVER feared

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