Even a decent leader would get the Patriots leadership in a room with other owners

In all seriousness, this is terrible for the league, mostly for us Patriots fans who feel uncomfortable even wearing a jersey in public if not in New England. Anyone with a shred of leadership skills (so in other words, not Goodell) would call Kraft and Belichick to a conference with all the owners who have spoken out against the Patriots (Steelers, Ravens, Colts, Panthers, Eagles, Rams) and have them talk this out. If the other owners have a problem with how things went down, they should be forced to actually back it up rather than just float innuendos to the press. If they have actual evidence, the Patriots should have to defend themselves or face more consequences. There should be a gag order about speaking to the press...it just makes everyone looks bad.

The owners think the press is on their side. The press is on the side of ratings. Anything negative about the Patriots creates high ratings. The other owners are also just pawns in the game yet think they are being vindicated; wait until they find themselves embroiled in a scandal, and they'll quickly see how much the press really cares about justice versus clicks.

Let me know when the NFL has decent leadership. Here's a rehash of an old thread by Joker that I saved. He saw this schmuck coming from a mile away.

OK, at the risk of being redundant, I'll respond with some FACTS that the Goodell apologists always ignore with their fingers in their ears.

Fact #1...I have in my possession a dozen responses to a query I sent out to members of Roger Goodell's senior high school class. The respondents, 8 men and 4 women answered one of the specific questions I put forth as to Goodell's NFL rooting interest. He was a huge Jet fan who took members of his high school team to numerous Jet home games when he was a senior. Goodell has claimed , AFTER he became commissioner and AFTER he created Spygate, that he was a Washington Redskins fan, and used his father's senatorship as his alibi. It's a total, complete fabrication on his part. WHY???

The Thursday before the Jets/NE game that advented "Spygate", Mangini signed into NFL Offices, where the commissioner's office is, at 3:30 PM on Thursday. I HAVE a copy of the sign-in sheet at the security desk obtained by request in person in 2007.The records have since disappeared/been destroyed. I'm one of a number of people who have copies. What does it prove? Nothing. It DOES Raise the obvious question...WHY was Mangini there? Who did he see? What was discussed? I say a federal grand jury should ASK him under oath, but for that to happen, an investigation into the actions of Roger Goodell since 2006 would have to be started. I believe he's involved in a RICO violation involving the owners, major advertising consortiums and the two major sports networks, ESPN and NFLN.

In 2007, ESPN reported and Wikipedia documented Roger Goodell's work history. Both documents stated explicitly that Roger Goodell started as an intern with the NY Jets and THEN, with the backing of Leon Hess and after numerous failed attempts, was hired by the NFL. This was well known in 2007 and was discussed across the internet on a plethora of outlets. In 2008, suddenly, ESPN began reporting that Goodell worked FIRST for the NFL, then went to work for the Jets for a year and then went back to the NFL. The Wikipedia page also was edited to show THIS work timeline. Pretty odd if one takes even a few minutes to think about this. First off, who in the history of ANYTHING has ever done anything like this...I work for the NFL but no, I work for the Jets and then I work for the NFL again...what he fails to admit is that he had a THREE MONTH INTERNSHIP in the NFL offices from which he springboarded to the Jets and a FULLTIME job..it's a flimsy , preposterous put on dreamt up by the son of a life long NY SENATOR, a rich kid bully NY high school jock who's powerful daddy could have gotten him into ANY Ivy League school in the east, yet Roger Goodellstein ends up at Washington & Jefferson College in Pennsylvania where he got a degree in business. Here's an excerpt from a linked article...

http://www.washjeff.edu/education-lifetime/goodell-roger Goodell, Roger | Washington & Jefferson College

"As he looks back over his 24-year journey through the National Football League, Goodell attributes much of his success to Washington & Jefferson College . “The first day in Professor Salbach’s economics class he said there would be two hours of homework for each class period. I thought I’d never make it.” However, Goodell stuck with it and found that the challenge was enjoyable. “My education at W&J taught me how to learn, how to communicate, and how to work with others—the three most important skills in any job,” he says."

I have to say this about Patsfans...for the most part , there are a host of regular posters and contributors with, to me, OBVIOUS formidable intellectual capacities. We have professionals from all walks of life that argue back and forth here. We have medical professionals, lawyers, businessmen, statiticians with masters degrees...on and on..as well as the normal Joe Pats fans that all join in the day to day goings on. Now I ask all of you, the person leading a multibillion dollar a year enterprise such as the NFL should possess a number of attributes and qualifications wouldn't you think? Yet here we all are, captive to the ministrations of some rich kid, entitled clown sporting a generic business degree from a Pennsylvania college....right, I'm buying in 100% alright. A C minus GPA after four grueling years? Move him right into the commissioner's office at National Football League, 345 Park Avenue, New York, NY I say!! Why fool around with any other candidates?

Last season he orchestrated the Ray Lewis Farewell Super Bowl...this year it's the Peyton Manning Deification Tour....oh I can't take it!!! Will Peytie come back for ONE more year after he "wins" THIS Super Bowl. Stay tuned....

I got a kick out of that last part. Even Peyton couldn't overcome his ineptitude and take the gift that was given to him.

Sounds great on paper and I agree (in principle), but not a single coach wants to be taken away from in-season preparation. The owners can hash it out and deliver the message to their employees.

I think they have to realize they aren't just damaging the Patriot brand, but they are damaging the entire NFL. Other owners probably look at the NFL as a single pie that gets divided among the 32 (not evenly) and to lessen a single owner would theoretically increase their own share of the spoils. The thing is they are really starting to turn some fans away from the game and the problem will be when their metrics start to slide, the damage will already have been done.

they could deal with the "Patriot Problem" which is them denying the parity concept in a way that enhances the league rather than diminish it. the problem is they are too fragmented and the egos of the NFL* and owners won't let them see past their own self-interest.

I don't doubt that there are probably some fans feeling uncomfortable wearing their stuff. Me, however, NEVER. I wear my gear with pride. In fact, I had a photoshoot to do today and I was going to be decked out in Pats gear. We got rained out, though. Ah well.

To your overall point, I don't even care to go that far. Why would we try to appease anyone at this point? I say just keep the winning going and let them think and say what they want. The other owners don't want to confer with Kraft and BB for a number of reasons, not the least of which being they love that their fans and fans of other teams are all on the bandwagon. They all have a built-in excuse for why their teams have lost to NE in the past, and they have been complicit in casting doubt on any win to come in the future. Go over to the Steeler's board, and you will see what I mean. As far as they are concerned, they did not lose because their D spent most of the night losing track of Gronk or their coach was outdone or their kicker missed two field goals that were not that difficult or any of the X's and O's. They lost because NE manipulated the headsets and Brady got them to reset the game clock and blah blah blah.

Everyone outside of this fanbase is too busy to be concerned with trivial things like facts and truth. It's easier and less time-consuming to go with the flow of the cheating rhetoric that is permeating sports at the moment. It's more convenient to point to cheating as the reason for NE's dominance than it is to simply admit that maybe they are just that good. So, while I get your point and I don't disagree (per se), it will obviously never happen.

In 2012ish I was running in Paris around the Eiffel Tower and an elderly man walking towards me in the opposite direction pointed at my shirt (SB 38 champs), smiled made a "Hey!" sound and gave a "thumbs-up".

When I travel to other places and get the snide remarks from the miserable and uneducated once they see the Flying Elvis on my luggage, I just tell them that their team sucks (I don't try and educate people I don't have a relationship with anymore. I just go in arrogant Pats fan mode. Screw 'em), I take the time to remember that elderly Pats fan in Paris.

The world can be a good place....sometimes.

Wish things were different....

However corporate America is far from chaste ... there is a small cabal of people who control the media in this country ...to expect the NFL to be different is simply inane IMO. I enjoy football ... the less media I read the less aggravated I become. Fans hate great teams ... especially fans of crap teams ...so ...MEH and go Patriots.

This post is at least 6 months behind reality. These clowns get in the same room all the time.

Leadership?

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

In all seriousness, this is terrible for the league, mostly for us Patriots fans who feel uncomfortable even wearing a jersey in public if not in New England. Anyone with a shred of leadership skills (so in other words, not Goodell) would call Kraft and Belichick to a conference with all the owners who have spoken out against the Patriots (Steelers, Ravens, Colts, Panthers, Eagles, Rams) and have them talk this out. If the other owners have a problem with how things went down, they should be forced to actually back it up rather than just float innuendos to the press. If they have actual evidence, the Patriots should have to defend themselves or face more consequences. There should be a gag order about speaking to the press...it just makes everyone looks bad.

The owners think the press is on their side. The press is on the side of ratings. Anything negative about the Patriots creates high ratings. The other owners are also just pawns in the game yet think they are being vindicated; wait until they find themselves embroiled in a scandal, and they'll quickly see how much the press really cares about justice versus clicks.

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Is this a serious statement? If it is then you need to worry less about a malfunctioning league office/media and more about courage of conviction.
Sorry to be so blunt but I'm shocked at that statement....

TheBostonStraggler said:

Is this a serious statement? If it is then you need to worry less about a malfunctioning league office/media and more about courage of conviction.
Sorry to be so blunt but I'm shocked at that statement....

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I don't feel comfortable with my fan experience in taking two young girls to an away game and rooting for the Patriots. That is sad and true. I wasn't trying to say I am ashamed because I am not.

Exactly.
Goodell & to a far, far smaller extent Bob Kraft, have let this thing get WAY out of hand.
I would NOT take my granddaughters to an away Patriots game because anti-Patriots Cheatriot fan frenzy has gotten to a dangerous level.
I admit I'm a perverse kinda guy who when alone enjoys some doofus having a hissey fit over my Pats shirt (Thanks Ian for all the shirts!) but not taking family into hostile venues.

PatsWickedPissah said:

Exactly.
Goodell & to a far, far smaller extent Bob Kraft, have let this thing get WAY out of hand.
I would NOT take my granddaughters to an away Patriots game because anti-Patriots Cheatriot fan frenzy has gotten to a dangerous level.
I admit I'm a perverse kinda guy who when alone enjoys some doofus having a hissey fit over my Pats shirt (Thanks Ian for all the shirts!) but not taking family into hostile venues.

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I think you give Kraft far less credit than he deserves in the creation and development of the destruction of the Pats reputation. He was complicit in the development of the original camera gate by capitulating. His irrational friendship through the years helped create and protect the corrupt and biased POS commissioner, and his final action in the grovelling acceptance of the punishment help create the appearance of guilt where none existed. I think the picture of Kraft and Goodell hand in hand at the billionaire's retreat sums up the cause of the problems which will never be irradicated.

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

I don't feel comfortable with my fan experience in taking two young girls to an away game and rooting for the Patriots. That is sad and true. I wasn't trying to say I am ashamed because I am not.

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Fair Enough Ice. I hadn't considered you were being specific about going to an away game as well as taking little ones (I thought you were talking about walking around in Patriots). Last night I had just got done with a one stop transcon. For me that is always a chance for sleep and I sleep better with a blanket. The blanket I use has a great big Patriots logo in the middle of the small 'colors' blanket (hand made by Mrs Straggler). That is the norm for me (and I fly a lot). ANYONE wants to have a "chat" about that logo they better bring their A game . To date I haven't had a single negative comment except for a rare time or two of some good natured ribbing (which I appreciate the banter).

I will say this: IF the difference between safe and unsafe for little ones is cheating allegations in the media and a patriots shirt, allow me to suggest it isn't safe to begin with. That is indicative of an element that is primed for idiotic behavior and just needs any small excuse to let it come out. I could suggest 20 in game reasons why that behavior could come out.
But again I see your POV from a parent or guardian regarding an away games and little ones.

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

I don't feel comfortable with my fan experience in taking two young girls to an away game and rooting for the Patriots. That is sad and true. I wasn't trying to say I am ashamed because I am not.

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I hear ya. But the Pats travel well so there's likely to be more than one Pats fan in an away arena. Remember that game in San Diego when it was like a warm home game?

I won't be going to any away games for the foreseeable future. Well, first and foremost I won't be going to any games at all because I don't want to give the NFL my money. But even if that wasn't the case, I wouldn't want to pay a couple hundred bucks for the privilege of watching out for my GF's safety, getting harassed and threatened, and maybe getting sucker punched. Not worth it on any level.

I traditionally go anytime the Pats are in San Diego, so it probably wouldn't come up for a few more years anyway, but I don't think this one's going to die down until Belichick/Brady are gone, and by then I'll probably be out on the NFL entirely anyway. The only reason I can talk myself into supporting this whole crap institution now is because I have so much invested in Brady and Belichick.

PatsWickedPissah said:

Exactly.
Goodell & to a far, far smaller extent Bob Kraft, have let this thing get WAY out of hand.
I would NOT take my granddaughters to an away Patriots game because anti-Patriots Cheatriot fan frenzy has gotten to a dangerous level.
I admit I'm a perverse kinda guy who when alone enjoys some doofus having a hissey fit over my Pats shirt (Thanks Ian for all the shirts!) but not taking family into hostile venues.

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my mom and I planned to go to Jerry world years ago the next time the pats played there. After this offseason no chance in hell we go there week 5!

Sad state of affairs, 2 unassuming fans that won't say anything fear going to a visiting stadium. Such is life in the NYJFL

I think you give Kraft far less credit than he deserves in the creation and development of the destruction of the Pats reputation. He was complicit in the development of the original camera gate by capitulating. His irrational friendship through the years helped create and protect the corrupt and biased POS commissioner, and his final action in the grovelling acceptance of the punishment help create the appearance of guilt where none existed. I think the picture of Kraft and Goodell hand in hand at the billionaire's retreat sums up the cause of the problems which will never be irradicated.

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This. Kraft deserves most of the blame to be honest. Really..

It all goes back to spygate. Here is the real deal. The Patriots didn't THINK they were doing anything wrong. They CHOOSE to ignore the memo because they felt the NFL offices were wrong and had read the rules wrong.

Even IF they were incorrect - and the memo was in fact the letter of the law - the Patriots did a horrific job of letting the world know that they felt that they were in the right. This is so critical - because the Patriots caved - now the whole world thinks they cheat whenever they get the chance. Instead of an honest disagreement about the rules - the pats are branded as cheats.

When Kraft says 'hey we were wrong' - and he has set that tone through the entire organization - it makes the Patriots look like a team that wanted to 'put one by' the NFL. So now they have no trust from any of the other 31 and from any of the fans. And according to ESPN - it was a big factor in the deflate gate mess.

Goodell's thinking - and I believe he honestly believes this. Hey those Patriots they like to cheat - balls were a little low in pressure - I bet they were cheating again.. Hence the witch hunt. All of this mess could have been avoided with just a stronger rebuke.

Kraft didn't need to sue the NFL or anything. All he had to do is come out and say we were right according to the rule book and we believed we not violating any NFL bylaws. We want to appeal the punishment. Just by doing that he could have changed the narrative. Instead by caving he has set this tone - which is bad for the league and bad for the fans.

You can call these opposing fans 'haters' but it was Kraft that caved in and got the Patriots branded with a capital C. Kraft I feel is a good life lesson - no matter how much money you have - its better to stand up for what you feel is right then capitulate..

BigPeteG said:

This. Kraft deserves most of the blame to be honest. Really..

It all goes back to spygate. Here is the real deal. The Patriots didn't THINK they were doing anything wrong. They CHOOSE to ignore the memo because they felt the NFL offices were wrong and had read the rules wrong.

Even IF they were incorrect - and the memo was in fact the letter of the law - the Patriots did a horrific job of letting the world know that they felt that they were in the right. This is so critical - because the Patriots caved - now the whole world thinks they cheat whenever they get the chance. Instead of an honest disagreement about the rules - the pats are branded as cheats.

When Kraft says 'hey we were wrong' - and he has set that tone through the entire organization - it makes the Patriots look like a team that wanted to 'put one by' the NFL. So now they have no trust from any of the other 31 and from any of the fans. And according to ESPN - it was a big factor in the deflate gate mess.

Goodell's thinking - and I believe he honestly believes this. Hey those Patriots they like to cheat - balls were a little low in pressure - I bet they were cheating again.. Hence the witch hunt. All of this mess could have been avoided with just a stronger rebuke.

Kraft didn't need to sue the NFL or anything. All he had to do is come out and say we were right according to the rule book and we believed we not violating any NFL bylaws. We want to appeal the punishment. Just by doing that he could have changed the narrative. Instead by caving he has set this tone - which is bad for the league and bad for the fans.

You can call these opposing fans 'haters' but it was Kraft that caved in and got the Patriots branded with a capital C. Kraft I feel is a good life lesson - no matter how much money you have - its better to stand up for what you feel is right then capitulate..

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There is no way to draw the line from A to B that Kraft was responsible for the capital C.
If you want to argue Kraft made a mistake for not protesting the penalty or publicly disagree with the media pronouncements? I agree with that. You want to argue him not doing that made it some unknown level of worse? That could be right.
But if this latest round has taught us anything it is that arguing the point, arguing and pushing for fairness, expectation of media to look in depth at the story, what the actual evidence is, what actually took place/circumstances are not the big factors. In 07 the Patriots were already winning more than their share (3 SBs), BB was already very disliked by most media and by most fans, media shallowness was already there, and "cheating" is a storyline that is WAY too good to pass up. So once it was factual that taping in an illegal manner had occurred, it was illegal taping, there wasn't any amount of media, PR or fighting that was going to change the big storyline that the Patriots were 'cheaters'. Kraft could have hired a 100 media people and it would not have changed that significantly.
At best Kraft protesting may have put doubt in Goodell to try and pull what he pulled with deflategate, it may have got the penalty reduced somewhat, it may have changed the storyline to some small degree. But again this was a story that in NO way was going to change greatly. It was just too good for the media -- just like a football with .3 of a PSI was an epic cheating scandal though it was borderline silly at its base.

The meeting the OP proposes is not going to happen.

Here's why:

“You can say whatever you want about DeflateGate, and who said what, but to me this is about how the NFL operates: it’s back stabbing, it’s insecure and it’s childish,” Esiason added. “‘You want to call me out? I’m going to call you out. You want to embarrass me? Guess what I’m going to embarrass you.’ I’m telling you, this is the way the NFL works."

Said Boomer Esiason, seven months ago.

The thing that upsets me most about Deflategate is that it essentially was about snitching. If anyone had serious, material concerns about football inflation pressure, they could have gotten together and talked about this. Now, it's way too late for talking, and I think even Kraft understands that.

I find it very disheartening that the media and fans of other teams don't understand these basic principles:

Cheating is dishonorable.

Accusing someone of cheating without basis is also dishonorable.

What the OP suggests is a meeting of peers, reasonable, honorable men who just want to do the right thing. And, I don't think that's what the NFL owners are right now, if ever they were.