Bill Simmons killing it

vyrago said:

Coach Psychic said "something just didn't look right."

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That will teach the Seahawks no to leave their playbooks laying around.

More Bill Simmons:

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/2015-nfl-week-1-new-england-patriots-pittsburgh-steelers/

Still Hated, Still Better: The Patriots Remind the Steelers That Not Much Has Changed

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The chatter about footballs and low-level subterfuge isn’t likely to settle after what took place last night, but if Kraft can keep unfurling banners while dancing to T-Pain and holding a silver trophy in his right hand, the Patriots likely won’t care. Plenty of fans, opposing coaches, and opposing players will take up the orchestra’s offer:

They’ll keep hating New England, because the Patriots won’t be changing any time soon.

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JMC00 said:

Bill Simmons ‏@BillSimmons 35m35 minutes ago
I'm just happy the 2001 Steelers can blame stolen signals for losing and not their special teams breakdown or Kordell ****ting the bed.

Bill Simmons ‏@BillSimmons 33m33 minutes ago
And I'm happy for Rams - who scored a TD on their only SB36 red zone appearance but can now blame the Pats for stealing red zone signals.

Bill Simmons ‏@BillSimmons 33m33 minutes ago
And I'm happy for the Eagles - who fell apart down stretch in SB39 like they did in 20 other McNabb/Reid games but now have a good excuse.

Bill Simmons ‏@BillSimmons 31m31 minutes ago
And I'm happy for the Colts - who kept blowing big games to NE until Polian got the NFL to change the passing rules, but now have an excuse.

Bill Simmons ‏@BillSimmons 27m27 minutes ago
And I'm happy for Carolina - went 14-18 in the seasons before & after SB38, heavy underdogs in 03 playoffs, but somehow robbed of a title.

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And although I can't say I'm happy about it, congrats to two NYG teams who played lights out and error free football in their two SB victories vs NE.

IcyPatriot said:

More Bill Simmons:

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/2015-nfl-week-1-new-england-patriots-pittsburgh-steelers/

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FWIW, Simmons isn't part of Grantland any more. That is Robert Mays.

pdangle said:

And although I can't say I'm happy about it, congrats to two NYG teams who played lights out and error free football in their two SB victories vs NE.

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Yeah, I posted that in another thread recently.

It's similar to what BB said about no excuses. Yeah, it sucks that the Giants got the Pats twice, but bottom line they won the game on the field. Props to them. (Actually screw them too, but you know what I mean).

pdangle said:

And although I can't say I'm happy about it, congrats to two NYG teams who played lights out and error free football in their two SB victories vs NE.

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They didn't play lights out and error free and claiming so is ridiculous. They had the help of Mike Carrey not calling in the grasp when they had Manning on the Tyree catch.

And there were numerous calls that they blew in SB46..

DaBruinz said:

They didn't play lights out and error free and claiming so is ridiculous. They had the help of Mike Carrey not calling in the grasp when they had Manning on the Tyree catch.

And there were numerous calls that they blew in SB46..

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The Pats did pick off a pass in SB 42. But every fumble the Giants had in those two Super Bowls, the Giants wound up recovering (excluding the one where the Pats recovered but were flagged for 12 men on the field). That's where the Giants were very fortunate. As for the Tyree helmet catch, the refs could have easily called 2 or 3 separate penalties. But I'm pretty sure the "in the grasp" rule no longer existed at that time. It was done away with a few years prior.

Plunkett2Vataha said:

The Pats did pick off a pass in SB 42. But every fumble the Giants had in those two Super Bowls, the Giants wound up recovering (excluding the one where the Pats recovered but were flagged for 12 men on the field). That's where the Giants were very fortunate. As for the Tyree helmet catch, the refs could have easily called 2 or 3 separate penalties. But I'm pretty sure the "in the grasp" rule no longer existed at that time. It was done away with a few years prior.

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The in the grasp rule was and still is a rule.. It's in there for the protection of the quarterback..

DaBruinz said:

The in the grasp rule was and still is a rule.. It's in there for the protection of the quarterback..

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carey's explanation for not calling it is a joke.

DaBruinz said:

The in the grasp rule was and still is a rule.. It's in there for the protection of the quarterback..

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When is the last time you heard the ref state "in the grasp". They did away with that

DaBruinz said:

The in the grasp rule was and still is a rule.. It's in there for the protection of the quarterback..

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DaBruinz, it has been almost ten years (or more) since I've seen a play whistled dead because of the QB being "in the grasp" of a defender. There is no mention of this in the NFL rule book. I know originally it was in there for the protection of the QB, but it started getting ridiculous , so the rule was taken off the books. That's not saying a ref won't blow the play dead because a QB is wrapped up and refuses to go down, but it won't be because of the antiquated "in the grasp" rule. Trust me, I wish it was called for SB 42.

Plunkett2Vataha said:

When is the last time you heard the ref state "in the grasp". They did away with that

DaBruinz, it has been almost ten years (or more) since I've seen a play whistled dead because of the QB being "in the grasp" of a defender. There is no mention of this in the NFL rule book. I know originally it was in there for the protection of the QB, but it started getting ridiculous , so the rule was taken off the books. That's not saying a ref won't blow the play dead because a QB is wrapped up and refuses to go down, but it won't be because of the antiquated "in the grasp" rule. Trust me, I wish it was called for SB 42.

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It wasn't taken off the books, at least not as of 2007.

The referee of SB42, Mike Carey, has said on record in interviews that he had his whistle in his mouth and was about to whistle the play dead as "in the grasp" when Manning got the ball off.

DaBruinz said:

The in the grasp rule was and still is a rule.. It's in there for the protection of the quarterback..

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And if memory serves, the refs were really putting an emphasis on RTP penalties that year and all but brainwashing defenses into not playing through those in-the-grasp kind of situations.

Good-natured whining.

And I have just confirmed it remains on the books in 2015.

See Rule 12, Section 2, Article 9(h):

(h) The Referee must blow the play dead as soon as the passer is clearly in the grasp and control of any tackler behind the line, and the passer’s safety is in jeopardy.

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Go to http://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/2015-nfl-rulebook/#section-2-personal-fouls and scroll down to "Article 9. Roughing the Passer" and then further scroll down to item (h).

Plunkett2Vataha said:

When is the last time you heard the ref state "in the grasp". They did away with that

DaBruinz, it has been almost ten years (or more) since I've seen a play whistled dead because of the QB being "in the grasp" of a defender. There is no mention of this in the NFL rule book. I know originally it was in there for the protection of the QB, but it started getting ridiculous , so the rule was taken off the books. That's not saying a ref won't blow the play dead because a QB is wrapped up and refuses to go down, but it won't be because of the antiquated "in the grasp" rule. Trust me, I wish it was called for SB 42.

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As others have pointed out, it's still a rule and it Mike Carey has gone on record as saying he should have blown the whistle.

It should have been called once last night, though the Pats ended up getting Ben down..

DaBruinz said:

As others have pointed out, it's still a rule and it Mike Carey has gone on record as saying he should have blown the whistle.

It should have been called once last night, though the Pats ended up getting Ben down..

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For better or worse, I think the refs go out of their way not to call it in high stakes situations and on QBs for whom breaking would-be sacks is a big part of their game. For example, if you gave Ben the option of having the refs strictly call it for his protection or never call it, I think he'd choose the latter, because so many of his big plays come after he shrugs off a would-be tackler who had him in the grasp. Sometimes he turns that into a big play, sometimes he turns it into the end zone interception that ended their season in the wild card round last year.

I think the refs are on some level cognizant of that conflict and of the fact that a lot of QBs don't want the play whistled dead. And yeah, they're basically having their cake and eating it too: I would rather the rule didn't exist in the first place, so Seymour could've piledriven Eli into the turf on that play without fear of getting flagged. I'm not saying it's sensible or right or that I necessarily like it, but I don't think Carey neglecting to call it in SB42 was some crazy fluke thing. I would have been more surprised if he had called it, and I say that while acknowledging that technically he should have.

DaBruinz said:

Not sure if it will hurt or help when "Do Your Job" is put out and the rest of the league learns that the defense he called for the last play of the game was the first time all year they'd used that defense.

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I think all that means is that no team went three wide at the goal line before that.

They called "In the Grasp" this preseason on a Chandler Jones sack just a couple of weeks ago.

DaBruinz said:

As others have pointed out, it's still a rule and it Mike Carey has gone on record as saying he should have blown the whistle.

It should have been called once last night, though the Pats ended up getting Ben down..

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Okay, I stand corrected. I couldn't find it in the rule book, but thanks to the efforts of QuantumMechanic, I now know where to find it. I still can't recall seeing this called for years, though I don't doubt for one second what all you folks have pointed out. I just need to pay better attention during games!!
As for DaBruinz relating the Mike Carey mea culpa on not calling it in SB42, that just peels off the scab all over again. Carey should have just kept that to himself.

I think that holding could and perhaps should have been called but not calling in the grasp was the right call validated by the fact that Eli did manage to escape.

The rule is there in some form or fashion and it could have been called. Who knows maybe it should have been called. But this type of call is much like PI: a ton of subjectivity and a lot of uncertainty as to when exactly to blow the whistle/throw the flag. Add in that it was the SB with its 'let them play' mentality and I believe the no call is arguably justifiable.

IMHO the 'in the grasp' non call being blamed for the loss is pure grousing, nothing more. IMHO, floating further off topic, to me that loss will always go down as the unsatisfactory OL performance. Again just my humble opinion but every other facet played well enough to win. If the OL could have provided just a modestly satisfactory pass protection performance, the Patriots walk away winners and probably by a relatively comfortable margin.