PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

I confidently believe, without bias, that Edelman now is better than Welker ever was


Status
Not open for further replies.
I loved Welker when he was here. His toughness and ability to get open on 3rd downs was uncanny. It's like he and Brady shared a brain.

I love Edleman. he's got great toughness and overcame his early "injury" issues to become a dependable starter. He's getting some respect from the national media and other teams. He'd be a great guy to hang out with and he never quits (neither did Welker) or surrenders. How could you not love that kid?

I wouldn't have complained if they were both playing together (in their respective primes -- though JE is just starting to hit his prime).
 
The difference is also that combine numbers is far from the only thing that's important to being a good or great football player. Sherman has not been a corner for that long, but he's still a better corner than many in the league. Not because of athletic numbers. But just because he plays the position better than most.
The poster said Brown was a better athlete. The metrics tell a different story. I don't really understand your point.

Sherman converted from WR to CB a much different transition then QB to WR.
 
I respect you're forgiving attitude towards him but I cannot let them go. It has more to do with his non compliance of the Patriot way than his messy departure or the drops. Nice post though I respect that stance.

Believe me....I get it. It's not matter of forgiveness for me. I'm still pissed at him. I just try and separate those two plays from the body of work from 2007-2012.

Thats like saying Bill Buckner was an average baseball player and an average 1st baseman. It simply is not true.
 
I think you've done a great job making a case for WW throughout this thread. For the record, I did not start this thread as an exercise in Welker bashing and stated that. Certainly there is a reason to compare the two, as they are more similar than they are different and Edelman's initial role in the offense was Welker's slot position, though now it is more varied.

I think WW is awesome and doubt JE will surpass his totals. However, for the reasons I stated, I think Edelman is an ever so slightly better player, which is notable because no one ever saw that coming.

Its all good.

Just to be clear, I agree with you on the catch radius, speed and strength attributes favoring Jules. He is also more versatile WR. No question. I disagree a little with the hands as if you go back, from 07-12 WW has a lower drop % on average than Jules but not by much. They both have elite hands. That's a push. We are splitting hairs at that point.

For me, production supersedes all. From 07-12, WW averaged 154 targets, 112 catches, 1243 yds and 6 TDs and that includes his 2010 ACL year. His drop % was ~4.5%. That is insane. My belief is that if you play a lot of positions and you produce , that is great. If you play 1 or 2 and produce off the charts, that is better.
 
The poster said Brown was a better athlete. The metrics tell a different story. I don't really understand your point.

Sherman converted from WR to CB a much different transition then QB to WR.
Sorry. Sloppy reading from my part

With that said, I would argue that with pads on Antonio is the more athletic football player.
 
No

Just....

No


FFS
 
No

Just....

No


FFS

Usually its great football observations wrapped in condescension and belittling.

Guess he was rushed for time and had to skip over the football observations part.

And for the record, I dont think any comparison of Welker and Edelman, no matter who is actually better in the end, deserves a FFS, you are all so stupid kind of innuendo.
 
You might want to fact-check your statements.

WW had monster years with Moss. He had to share catches as well.

WW had the best year of his career with Gronk. He had to share catches as well.

Jules had a great year with Gronk.

Moss=Gronk

Troy Brown is a different discussion and from a playoff standpoint was not as productive as WW.

Jules - to this point is not as productive as Wes. That is a statistical fact.
You can make a case that WW was the best regular season slot receiver in his day for the Pats but that is mostly attributable to Brady. I remember WW as a good not great player for the Phins and we know what he was at the end of his career playing for the Broncos. I would venture to say that if Edelman plays the same number of years with Brady, he will put up comparable regular season numbers. The difference thus far is in the playoffs. One player is clutch the other is not. That is the same essential difference between Manning and Brady. I would prefer Brown or Branch to Welker in a playoff game because in the clutch one makes the plays and the other doesn't and regular season records are meanigless at playoff time.
 
You can make a case that WW was the best regular season slot receiver in his day for the Pats but that is mostly attributable to Brady.

Actually, you can make an argument that WW was the greatest slot receiver all time for any team. Why would you limit it to just the Pats and just in "his day."

I love JE as much as anyone but I dont need to slight WWs accomplishments to make myself feel better and that we have a better player now.

These comparisons at best case are bizzare and too subjective. Worst case they are embarrassing and childish and show the true insecurities of the JE fans.

And saying TB made WW is stupid because the same would have to be said for JE. What other QB has JE received passes from. WW was productive with 2 QBs.

And I am one of the biggest JE fans on the board who hopes he plays here forever.
 
With the Superbowl on the line...

welker1.jpg


peT69MQ.jpg
 
You can make a case that WW was the best regular season slot receiver in his day for the Pats but that is mostly attributable to Brady.

We know that he had a monster year with Matty Cassell throwing to him. Would Jules be better or worse without TB? We don't know but we do know what WW is w/o TB in his prime.

I remember WW as a good not great player for the Phins and we know what he was at the end of his career playing for the Broncos. I would venture to say that if Edelman plays the same number of years with Brady, he will put up comparable regular season numbers. .

You may be right. Jules has had basically two solid years in a row and turns 30 next May. He better get going.

The difference thus far is in the playoffs. One player is clutch the other is not. That is the same essential difference between Manning and Brady. I would prefer Brown or Branch to Welker in a playoff game because in the clutch one makes the plays and the other doesn't and regular season records are meanigless at playoff time.

I'm not sure if the point can be applied to the attempt to define who is more productive but your observation is an accurate one. Wes has has some great playoff games and some key "mishandles"
 
He comes up...big..now it seems all the time no matter what...need a big 3rd down? Almost automatic if the ball is in his radius....i 100% agree with this statement
 
I think that it's hard to compare any two players in a vacuum. Welker was a *great* slot receiver and Edelman is a very good receiver. This is why I think what @BradyFTW! wrote is so important to this conversation. Welker had one position and he was the best of his generation at it. There's a lot of value in that. Alternatively, Edelman is a solid A slot player and a B+ flanker. There's a tremendous amount of value in that versatility.

Welker had essentially three routes that he based his entire game on; the pivot, the slant/arrow option, and the seam fly. I'm not saying that's all he ran, but that's what the core of his game was. Welker got separation with his quickness but usually got dragged down pretty quickly. Edelman can run everything, beat press, break tackles, and is more elusive in the open field. Both compete the same which I think ultimately is what ingratiates both of these guys to us so much.

It ultimately depends on what you value more from your players. Were it up to me I would rather have prime Edelman than prime Welker because I value that versatility at a high level more than I do a guy who is exceptional at one thing.
 
My view of the past is contaminated by that time a guy caught a ball with his helmet. Or even the time another guy kicked a field goal in a snow storm. Sometimes a winner and sometimes not. Possibly all based on a gust of wind.
 
I am a fim believer in winners and looser. JE is a winner.
 
This isn't a knock against Wes Welker, who despite the messy breakup, is still one of my all-time favorite Patriots. In addition, I'm not even basing it on "clutch play" in big games, which I think to some degree is more about perception and small sample sizes.

I believe the Julian Edelman is a better wide receiver than Wes Welker ever was, based on his skills, period.

Here are the main reasons, in order of importance:

1. Catch radius. The most important reason why Edelman is better is his catch radius. Despite being on paper just 1" taller than Welker, Edelman plays bigger. He seems to have longer arms and can cover more ground in a shorter time. There are very, very few times where Brady throws a ball over Edelman's head or where a ball is just out of reach. It also makes Edelman a better red zone threat. On the other hand, as good as Welker was, the ball always needed to be placed within an inch of the target. Do you remember how many busted screen plays were the result of missing a connection with Welker?

2. Hands. Welker also had his share of drops on wide open passes. Because of his high number of targets, I always felt that people would too harsh on his drops, though in later seasons the problems got worse. Still, Welker often needed to use his body to catch balls. Edelman rarely drops passes and is able to snag balls out of the air using his hands only.

3. Strength. There is little doubt that Edelman is just plain stronger than Welker. Welker could be shut down (often in the playoffs) by getting jammed at the line and just pushed around. Edelman is just better at fighting jams and releasing off the line. In addition, with the ball, Edelman is not only shifty but is also tough to tackle as he has a great center of gravity and uses great strength to stay up. Welker was also extremely shifty but was forced to rely only on the quickness. Edelman uses both quickness and power to move forward, and he will drive himself into a player to pick up that extra few feet for a first down.

4. Straight Line Speed. Welker was rarely used as a vertical threat because while very shifty and quick, he was not that fast. Yes, he could accelerate very well, but his top gear did not often get him behind defenses. Brady is able to use Edelman as a deep threat more often because Edelman is faster.

All in all, I would say Welker in his prime was slightly shiftier and quicker than Edelman, but for the reasons above, Edelman is a better overall wide receiver. It is amazing to think that the Patriots almost let Edelman walk after 2012 and that the Amendola vs Welker debate was so controversial while Edelman was an afterthought.
40 agrees and 1 disagree to your post. Made me think of this. :D
 
With the Superbowl on the line...

welker1.jpg


peT69MQ.jpg

FWIW, the degree of difficulty on those two catches wasn't really comparable. That was a tough catch for Welker--granted, at least in part because he had a small catch radius--and unfortunately he couldn't haul it in.

For Edelman's, the route itself was the difficult part of that play, and it worked so well that the resulting catch was pretty easy.
 
WW .....672 catches in 6 years as a NE Patriot....112 catches/year
WW....7400 yds as a Pat.....1233 yds/year
WW ......averaged 11 yds per catch during that time

Edelman looks more athletic but stats don't lie (JE's last 2 years)

JE .....197 catches last 2 years.....98.5 catches/year
JE.....2028 yds last 2 years......1014 yds/year
JE .......averaged 10.35 yds/catch

WW wins the head to head as of today....but JE's career path is trending positive in a massive way. When mediots labeled JE the "most difficult WR to defend" after last year.......who can argue.


JE is the better KR, PR Slot DB and Playoff touchdown passer. He's also a better down field blocker and end around runner. He's a more complete football PLAYER.
 
I think JE suffers from having Gronk on the team ;). Brady floated a few up last nite that just sailed past JE's fingers..... As good as he is, he's not 6' 7"!!!
 
The debate is largely about two things:

1. The importance of the catch radius. This is clearly a major strength for Edelman.
2. How good Edelman would be if used in exactly Welker's role and nothing more. I'm guessing it's pretty close. Welker's edge in getting open is real, even in comparison to Edelman. But Edelman is similarly elite once the ball is in his hands -- i.e., better than Welker even though Welker was pretty darn good himself.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


MORSE: Patriots Draft Needs and Draft Related Info
Friday Patriots Notebook 4/19: News and Notes
TRANSCRIPT: Eliot Wolf’s Pre-Draft Press Conference 4/18/24
Thursday Patriots Notebook 4/18: News and Notes
Wednesday Patriots Notebook 4/17: News and Notes
Tuesday Patriots Notebook 4/16: News and Notes
Monday Patriots Notebook 4/15: News and Notes
Patriots News 4-14, Mock Draft 3.0, Gilmore, Law Rally For Bill 
Potential Patriot: Boston Globe’s Price Talks to Georgia WR McConkey
Friday Patriots Notebook 4/12: News and Notes
Back
Top