Why "it was repealed on procedure" is BS

Marko · Sep 5, 2015

The common theme running in the media etc. is that Berman's decision was just a procedural vacating of the suspension and does not exonorate Brady. While this is technically true , in this case it does not tell the real story. The reason the NFL' s case is chock full of procedural gaffes is because they had no real evidence so they were forced to act accordingly, much like when a team is overmatched and has to hold etc to keep from getting crushed. The media makes it sound like someon forgot to file by a deadline or some technical screw up was the cause for the ruling. However, to use Greg Doyel's words the NFL "tried to rig the game" at every turn. In my opinion this does exonerate Brady because if they had true evidence of guilt there would have been no need to convince Anderson he used the other gauge, no need to have Wells leave out big portions of testimony, no need to leak false PSI numbers and never correct them, no need to lie about Pash being part of the investigation, and most of all no need to waste 8 months and millions of dollars on this travesty. The true cheaters are the NFL and their cohorts!

IllegalContact · Sep 5, 2015

It's like those who say he wasn't exonerated when there was no evidence in the first place

Rob0729 · Sep 5, 2015

The Judge could have forced the NFL to turn over all of Wells' documents and the documents could show a sting by the NFL, Wells manufacturing evidence to make nothing things make the Patriots look guilty, and have it show there was absolutely no evidence of cheating whatsoever and the Gregg Doyels of the world would still be convinced that the Pats were cheating.

The guy makes things up to support his theory. This is from his article yesterday (don't click on the link, I am only posting it to protect Ian from any copyright issue):

Patriots owner Bob Kraft consented to the findings in the Wells Report that two ball boys intentionally let out the air in the team’s footballs to make it easier for Tom Brady to throw them, easier for Rob Gronkowski and Julian Edelman to catch them, and harder for LeGarrette Blount and Jonas Gray to fumble them.

http://www.indystar.com/story/sport...rady-wins-deflategate-patriots-lost/71640202/

Except Robert Kraft never "consented" to the findings of the Wells Report. He accepted the punishment despite he DISAGREED with the findings of the Wells Report. And the Wells Report never found that "two ball boys intentionally let out the air in the team’s footballs ". The Wells Report could not even determine if the balls were actually deflated. It found some circumstantial evidence that may or may not have pointed to Jastremski and McNally deflating footballs, but there was no actual evidence to prove that.

Whether Brady was completely exonerated or not, the narrative will never change. ESPN still thinks the Pats were caught filming the Rams walkthrough. Why do people think if Judge Berman said that he reviewed the evidence and he found no evidence of cheating would change the national narrative. There will be a large portion of the country who will forever believe that 11 of the 12 balls were 2 PSI under the legal limit.

Ivan · Sep 5, 2015

Brady doesn't need to be " exonerated. "

1) At no point has there ever been any determination that game balls were ever tampered with. And no one can point to any finding that there was, including The Pash Report..

2) You cannot be found guilty of something if there is no finding that it ever happened.

3) If you have never been found guilty of something then you have no need for " exoneration. "

dprats2 · Sep 5, 2015

How can his name really be cleared in this 'environment'? Unfortunately, the whole ''technicality-got away with it" meme is strong around the media and has seeped into other fanbases.

I take endless amounts of sheeet from Redskins fans... seriously... Skins fans... only because they gloat in the belief that our success has been fabricated. It can't be reasoned with. I've tried with the local fans of the Ravens, Skins, and friggin' Steelers...ain't gonna happen.. they love this.

F the NFL and RG Specifically for the bitters they have thrown on a great season.... but then again we won, TB is going to play on opening day and the NFL looks a little more stupid to the average Joe...

Let 'em have their bitters... victory is sweet.

Palm Beach Pats Fan · Sep 5, 2015

The NFL was sloppy, reckless, and deceitful at every stage of this entire process. The judge was only allowed to rule on the back half of it, but his feelings are clear.

So... he wasn't able to exonerate Brady on the facts, and the Patriots will not be able to win the Stanley Cup. Both of these are true, because neither outcome is part of their jobs.

JMC00 · Sep 5, 2015

Didn't Berman kind of exonerate Brady in court? Well maybe he didn't outright say "he is exonerated".

But these right here

Berman: What is the evidence of a scheme or conspiracy that covers the Jan. 15 game? I’m having trouble finding it.
------------------------
Berman: Is there a text in which Mr. Brady instructs someone to put a needle in a football?

Nash: No, there is not such direct evidence.
----------------------------

If a federal judge is telling the nfl he doesn't see the evidence and the nfl lawyer point blank says they don't have direct evidence where Brady instructs someone to do it and you still think he wasn't somewhat exonerated then you are a moron.

Face it even if the judge came out and said the words "Mr. Brady is exonerated", some people would say just because he is was exonerated doesn't mean he didn't do anything, it just means it couldn't be proven.

PatsFanInVa · Sep 5, 2015

Interesting spin to get from "Law of the Shop" talk to "procedural."

The Brady case was procedural by nature, if you stretch the word enough, because it hinged on what procedures the NFL* had in place. An "arbitrator" who is also the accuser? An "independent report" for which the accuser pays, and which the accuser co-authors? And oh yeah I forgot... an underlying case in which you claim something you cannot prove, and admit that you had no factual basis - as in, considered the science - in initially making?

Yeah those are all steps that needed to go differently for this suspension to stick.

I don't want to drag politics into this, and I am certain that I won't vote for the particular candidate who said this... but ahem, one of our present candidates has said that the Pats/BB/Brady should sue the NFL for defamation.

I agree. And they should file 1 minute after hoisting the Lombardi Trophy this year.

Tony2046 · Sep 5, 2015

Rob0729 said:
The Judge could have forced the NFL to turn over all of Wells' documents and the documents could show a sting by the NFL, Wells manufacturing evidence to make nothing things make the Patriots look guilty, and have it show there was absolutely no evidence of cheating whatsoever and the Gregg Doyels of the world would still be convinced that the Pats were cheating.

The guy makes things up to support his theory. This is from his article yesterday (don't click on the link, I am only posting it to protect Ian from any copyright issue):

http://www.indystar.com/story/sport...rady-wins-deflategate-patriots-lost/71640202/

Except Robert Kraft never "consented" to the findings of the Wells Report. He accepted the punishment despite he DISAGREED with the findings of the Wells Report. And the Wells Report never found that "two ball boys intentionally let out the air in the team’s footballs ". The Wells Report could not even determine if the balls were actually deflated. It found some circumstantial evidence that may or may not have pointed to Jastremski and McNally deflating footballs, but there was no actual evidence to prove that.

Whether Brady was completely exonerated or not, the narrative will never change. ESPN still thinks the Pats were caught filming the Rams walkthrough. Why do people think if Judge Berman said that he reviewed the evidence and he found no evidence of cheating would change the national narrative. There will be a large portion of the country who will forever believe that 11 of the 12 balls were 2 PSI under the legal limit.

If Judge Berman had even hinted that he used the evidence as part of his decision he would have essentially increased the NFL's chances of winning the appeal. Glad he did not do that.

JMC00 · Sep 5, 2015

Tony2046 said:
If Judge Berman had even hinted that he used the evidence as part of his decision he would have essentially increased the NFL's chances of winning the appeal. Glad he did not do that.

Yep. That's why during his roasting of the nfl in open court he basically said they had nothing and even made them say they had no direct evidence.

Uncle Rico · Sep 5, 2015

I see Volin jumped on the "doesn't prove his innocent" bandwagon. Took him two days to latch onto the "appeal was about procedure" angle. I mean, c'mon, don't we all already know that?

Meanwhile, if Berman had ruled for the NFL, the unquestionable consensus would have been that that proves Brady's guilt.

Brady2Moss · Sep 5, 2015

If the judge had said he was innocent in the ruling, it would have been overturned on appeals and then they would just scream SEE THE APPEALS COURT SAID HE WAS GUILTY. Constantly moving the goal posts makes it impossible to argue with these people. Berman made it very clear during the two hearing transcripts that Brady was innocent.

PatsFanSince74 · Sep 5, 2015

Rob0729 said:
The Judge could have forced the NFL to turn over all of Wells' documents and the documents could show a sting by the NFL, Wells manufacturing evidence to make nothing things make the Patriots look guilty, and have it show there was absolutely no evidence of cheating whatsoever and the Gregg Doyels of the world would still be convinced that the Pats were cheating.

The guy makes things up to support his theory. This is from his article yesterday (don't click on the link, I am only posting it to protect Ian from any copyright issue):

http://www.indystar.com/story/sport...rady-wins-deflategate-patriots-lost/71640202/

Except Robert Kraft never "consented" to the findings of the Wells Report. He accepted the punishment despite he DISAGREED with the findings of the Wells Report. And the Wells Report never found that "two ball boys intentionally let out the air in the team’s footballs ". The Wells Report could not even determine if the balls were actually deflated. It found some circumstantial evidence that may or may not have pointed to Jastremski and McNally deflating footballs, but there was no actual evidence to prove that.

Whether Brady was completely exonerated or not, the narrative will never change. ESPN still thinks the Pats were caught filming the Rams walkthrough. Why do people think if Judge Berman said that he reviewed the evidence and he found no evidence of cheating would change the national narrative. There will be a large portion of the country who will forever believe that 11 of the 12 balls were 2 PSI under the legal limit.

Agreed on all counts, but especially see the text I highlighted above.

This is why the "Poison Pill" planted by Judge Berman in Section V., pp. 38--39 of his 40 page ruling is so important.

In the unlikely event that the Appellate Court overturns his ruling, it will kick it back to Berman, who will proceed to dig into the three arguments by Brady that he did "not reach" in his Ruling because he felt that his Ruling to Vacate was already strong enough without addressing them: a) Goodell's "evident partiality," b) the lack of evidence in the "Wells Report" that Brady had "participated in ball tampering" and c) the Commissioner's public "lauding" of the Wells Report before sitting as arbiter.

Each of those would allow Berman to demand full disclosure by the NFL of all the Wells Documents and all correspondence between the NFL and Wells. In many ways, the last thing the NFL wants to do is win this Appeal, but I would be reasonably confident that it knows it will not win.

These guys must have really pissed Berman off, because he really stuck it to them by not "reaching" these three arguments.

Tony2046 · Sep 5, 2015

PatsFanSince74 said:
Agreed on all counts, but especially see the text I highlighted above.

This is why the "Poison Pill" planted by Judge Berman in Section V., pp. 38--39 of his 40 page ruling is so important.

In the unlikely event that the Appellate Court overturns his ruling, it will kick it back to Berman, who will proceed to dig into the three arguments by Brady that he did "not reach" in his Ruling because he felt that his Ruling to Vacate was already strong enough without addressing them: a) Goodell's "evident partiality," b) the lack of evidence in the "Wells Report" that Brady had "participated in ball tampering" and c) the Commissioner's public "lauding" of the Wells Report before sitting as arbiter.

Each of those would allow Berman to demand full disclosure by the NFL of all the Wells Documents and all correspondence between the NFL and Wells. In many ways, the last thing the NFL wants to do is win this Appeal, but I would be reasonably confident that it knows it will not win. These guys must have really pissed Berman off, because he really stuck it to them by not "reaching" these three arguments.

He could demand full disclosure of all documents? Is that true?

PatsFanSince74 · Sep 5, 2015

Tony2046 said:
He could demand full disclosure of all documents? Is that true?

IANAL, but it would be my understanding that, if he were to address the three points that he does not "reach" in his Ruling, he would legitimately need all the documents to ascertain whether Brady's arguments are valid.

But, I'm ready to stand corrected by someone who actually knows.

patriot lifer · Sep 5, 2015

It doesn't prove his innocence, but no one proved his guilt.

Tony2046 · Sep 5, 2015

PatsFanSince74 said:
IANAL, but it would be my understanding that, if he were to address the three points that he does not "reach" in his Ruling, he would legitimately need all the documents to ascertain whether Brady's arguments are valid. But, I'm ready to stand corrected by someone who actually knows.

Geez, if that's true...........Not that I would want Berman's decision to be overturned but if it was and he was able to demand all those documents along with his willingness to release them for public consumption , it would most definitely be an amazing new angle in all this.

billdog3484 · Sep 5, 2015

Legally judge had to say he accepts facts as nfl found.

If you want to argue with your friends. Just say yes, judge accepted the record as is, that's what he was required to do or his decision would be subject to reversal on appeal, or at least much more likely to be reversed. However, he did rule the process was unfair, unjust. Goodell didn't let Brady fully defend himself bc he didn't provide full access to many things, including lead investigators and files and notes from the "independent" investigation. So the judge didn't rule Brady was innocent or guilty, only he was not given a fair opportunity to defend himself as the law requires.

Ivan · Sep 5, 2015

patriot lifer said:
It doesn't prove his innocence, but no one proved his guilt.

Yep. You first have to establish guilt before someone requires exoneration. To date there is no proof of any game ball being tampered with and absent that no one can be guilty of tampering with game balls.

Mr. Plow · Sep 5, 2015

Rob0729 said:
The Judge could have forced the NFL to turn over all of Wells' documents and the documents could show a sting by the NFL, Wells manufacturing evidence to make nothing things make the Patriots look guilty, and have it show there was absolutely no evidence of cheating whatsoever and the Gregg Doyels of the world would still be convinced that the Pats were cheating.

The guy makes things up to support his theory. This is from his article yesterday (don't click on the link, I am only posting it to protect Ian from any copyright issue):

http://www.indystar.com/story/sport...rady-wins-deflategate-patriots-lost/71640202/

Except Robert Kraft never "consented" to the findings of the Wells Report. He accepted the punishment despite he DISAGREED with the findings of the Wells Report. And the Wells Report never found that "two ball boys intentionally let out the air in the team’s footballs ". The Wells Report could not even determine if the balls were actually deflated. It found some circumstantial evidence that may or may not have pointed to Jastremski and McNally deflating footballs, but there was no actual evidence to prove that.

Whether Brady was completely exonerated or not, the narrative will never change. ESPN still thinks the Pats were caught filming the Rams walkthrough. Why do people think if Judge Berman said that he reviewed the evidence and he found no evidence of cheating would change the national narrative. There will be a large portion of the country who will forever believe that 11 of the 12 balls were 2 PSI under the legal limit.

I unfortunately was exposed to Doyel's filth when I picked up a copy of USA Today in a hotel lobby yesterday.

His assertion that Kraft "consented" to the findings of the Wells Report isn't just false.

It's childish.

If my opinion of Doyel was low before, it couldn't get any lower now.

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