With the NFL stating they will appeal..

I read a lot of military history books and there is one in particular that Goody needs to read.

Clearly there is no comparison to the tragedy and the cost but Goody needs to take a lesson from a powerful politician who ruled the House and the Senate with an iron fist, always got what he wanted and at the start thought he was doing right but when it was too late, realized he was doing incredibly wrong.

QuantumMechanic said:

Yes, they do. The federal Circuit Courts of Appeals have no discretion -- they are required to hear all cases appealed to them.

SCOTUS, by contrast, has discretion (in most cases) as which cases it hears.

Click to expand...

Thanks for correction. But even if they "hear" it, can't they decide the case is flimsy and then dismiss it with essentially no real "hearings" conducted?

DaBruinz said:

With the NFL's announcement that they ARE going to appeal (morons), I have a question for you legal heads on here.

I counted 7 different items in which Berman hammered the league on. Does the NFL have to appeal each item or can they appeal on just one to get Berman's decision over-ruled?


EDIT: Yes, I am amazed that the Owners are going to allow Goodell to appeal this. The amount of money they've wasted on this is ridiculous and the PR is only going to get worse for them..

Click to expand...

The owners are rich, not smart.

Mike the Brit said:

I think it's great that the NFL is going to appeal. Now that Brady and the Patriots have re-captured the moral high ground, the more that comes out, the worse it is for Gott-dell -- and the better for everyone else.

Click to expand...

Can we start now re-naming this outrageous episode Goodell-gate?

Mack Herron said:

The owners are rich, not smart.

Click to expand...

The Owners may not be book smart, but they are business savvy. And when their bottom lines start to be touched, it becomes an issue.. The money from the Wells investigation and the attorney fees comes from their portion of the proceeds prior to being divvied out. So every owner is taking a hit on this.. Granted, it's a paltry sum in the neighborhood of $150-$200K (my guess), but it's still money out of their pockets. How much more money do you really think they are going to allow to be taken for this boondoggle?

The reason that this seems to be such a great ruling (I only read it quickly) is that the NFL loses even if it wins on appeal.

Berman repeatedly says that the courts have no authority to challenge the arbitrator's judgement of the evidence, but that that doesn't mean that arbitrator can dispense with all standards of fairness in procedure. He then enumerates those unfairnesses in devastating detail. Basically, he buys everything that Kessler was selling.

If the NFL is going to win on appeal, then, the Appeal Court is going to have to say not only (1) the arbitrator can make whatever bizarre or unreasonable assessments of evidence he pleases, but (2) he doesn't have to meet any fairness standards in his procedure.

Even the jackals and weasels of the media can see that that doesn't play well.

Tom E. Curran‏@tomecurran
The mammoth ego of the NFL office and its certitude in how smart and powerful it is has undermined it again. And will during appeal

DaBruinz said:

The Owners may not be book smart, but they are business savvy. And when their bottom lines start to be touched, it becomes an issue.. The money from the Wells investigation and the attorney fees comes from their portion of the proceeds prior to being divvied out. So every owner is taking a hit on this.. Granted, it's a paltry sum in the neighborhood of $150-$200K (my guess), but it's still money out of their pockets. How much more money do you really think they are going to allow to be taken for this boondoggle?

Click to expand...

That is a great question. The owner with the greatest incentive to speak out is Kraft, and his last presser and his statement today studiously avoided any criticism of the commissioner. I would guess there will be minor and gradual front office tweaks, but my overriding impression is that Goodell remains at the helm and the ship is rudderless.

The NFL's appeal tells you again that this was and still is, all personal.

I thought I read on this site that Goddell had indicated they would not appeal. Can anyone confirm?

Personally, I can't wait for the appeal. Gunna be even more amazing the second time around when Tom's team outlines all the horseshit Goodell pulled, along with possibly some subpoenad NYFL emails and dirty secrets. They will lay this all out once again in front of the judge, then:


Case closed. Victory celebration #3 of the year ensues.

I t

rexxar said:

Jeff Howe @jeffphowe
Roger Goodell could have been the bigger man and ended this thing today, just like Robert Kraft attempted to do in May.

Click to expand...

I think it is time for Rog to accept his defeat.

Mike the Brit said:

The reason that this seems to be such a great ruling (I only read it quickly) is that the NFL loses even if it wins on appeal.

Berman repeatedly says that the courts have no authority to challenge the arbitrator's judgement of the evidence, but that that doesn't mean that arbitrator can dispense with all standards of fairness in procedure. He then enumerates those unfairnesses in devastating detail. Basically, he buys everything that Kessler was selling.

If the NFL is going to win on appeal, then, the Appeal Court is going to have to say not only (1) the arbitrator can make whatever bizarre or unreasonable assessments of evidence he pleases, but (2) he doesn't have to meet any fairness standards in his procedure.

Even the jackals and weasels of the media can see that that doesn't play well.

Click to expand...

That's because Kessler had done his homework and used the same arguments to defend Brady that Berman has used in overturning arbitration awards in the past. He literally used the exact same language Berman had used in his prior rulings.

I think it's very risky for the NFL to appeal.

There seem to be three outcomes and two of them will be bad for them.

One, they lose the appeal -- more bad publicity
Two, they win the appeal on the notice argument and the case is remanded to an independent arbitrator. That opens the case to a review on the facts. The NFL's case was based on their "power". The facts were never on their side. Also more bad publicity.
Third, they win.

If I were them, I'd stomp my feet and say "we disagree" and drop it.

MagicMarker said:

I think it's very risky for the NFL to appeal.

There seem to be three outcomes and two of them will be bad for them.

One, they lose the appeal -- more bad publicity
Two, they win the appeal on the notice argument and the case is remanded to an independent arbitrator. That opens the case to a review on the facts. The NFL's case was based on their "power". The facts were never on their side. Also more bad publicity.
Third, they win.

If I were them, I'd stomp my feet and say "we disagree" and drop it.

Click to expand...

Not sure but a "four" on top of your 3 is that the NFLPA appeals?

I have no idea if that is a possibility or not

DaBruinz said:

Wouldn't it be apropos if the Appeals Court chose to not hear the appeal and cited, essentially, because "We said so".. Which is essentially what Goodell has been claiming Art. 46 allows him to say..

Click to expand...

No, in point of fact Berman cited previous 2nd CC ruling to show where Goody broke the law. They, the 2nd CC would have to reject their precedent.

rexxar said:

Jeff Howe @jeffphowe
Roger Goodell could have been the bigger man and ended this thing today, just like Robert Kraft attempted to do in May.

Click to expand...

Goodell is a tiny tiny "man."

mikey m said:

Personally, I can't wait for the appeal. Gunna be even more amazing the second time around when Tom's team outlines all the horseshit Goodell pulled, along with possibly some subpoenad NYFL emails and dirty secrets. They will lay this all out once again in front of the judge

Click to expand...

Unfortunately it doesn't work that way. The appeal is limited to the records of the case before Berman -- the briefs and exhibits submitted by the parties, the transcripts of the oral arguments, and Berman's decision. That's it.

The appeal is all about whether or not Berman made any mistakes of law. There's not going to be any new evidence, no subpoenas, no new anything.

Have the National Football League’s lawyers gotten their appeal filed yet, or were they too busy applying the league’s concussion protocol to Roger Goodell, who got his bell rung good and proper by Judge Richard Berman on Thursday morning?
One hopes that this will be the end of it. One hopes that, once his head clears and once three doctors sign off on letting him play commissioner again, Goodell will have the sense god gave the common ficus and forgo his proposed appeal. The owners should applaud him for his grit and determination. And then they should fire his ass forthwith.

Click to expand...

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/b...ts-a-judicial-smackdown/?ex_cid=story-twitter

mosi said:

The NFL's appeal tells you again that this was and still is, all personal.

Click to expand...

I agree with this with the clarification that Goodell has nothing personal against Brady. For Goodell, this was all about resurrecting his image as a hard-nosed, incorruptible protector of the NFL shield after the Ray Rice fiasco. The fact that Goodell and Kraft were widely perceived to be best buddies before all this happened made things worse for both the Patriots and Brady. For how better to show how incorruptible you are than by hammering the team owned by your supposed best friend? This whole thing has been like a morality tale of what happens when someone only cares about appearing, but not actually being, virtuous.

On a side note, might I suggest Mr. Kraft that you keep your distance from Mr. Goodell so the next time that some Patriots player is alleged to have committed some infraction—say wearing non-regulation cleats on the playing field—Goodell doesn’t feel he can burnish his image for integrity by docking the Patriots two first round draft picks?