LOL, Rolling Stone just released their special "we all got beat by the Patriots" edition

woolster22 said:

So the fact that Manning was a shadow of himself when luck beat him is irrelevant?

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Unless Manning was covering receivers or rushing the passer, the exact quality of his play doesn't say much about the quality of Luck's.

Chiuba E. Obele said:

I think what they're saying is that they are important qualifiers to consider when looking at Luck's recent accomplishments. And if you don't factor in those details, then it becomes very easy to over-rate him and overlook his shortcomings (which were exposed in the AFC title match against the Pats)

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They're not trying to qualify. They're trying to disqualify. Big difference...

Fencer said:

Unless Manning was covering receivers or rushing the passer, the exact quality of his play doesn't say much about the quality of Luck's.

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**** @Fencer, I thought I was speaking with @Deus Irae, not MCI.

Apparently any challenge of his favorite sack o the month results in immediate dismassal of ability to think.

Where has golden schlonged Luck actually performed in the playoffs @Deus Irae?

Where hasn't he melted down the next week?

When has Luck literally have had a game for the ages, put his flailing team on his back, and carried them to at v least 3 straight wins? OK, I'm moving the goalposts...a afccg game performance to be applauded?

**** @Deus Irae I must be moving em again...how about a divisional round performance for the ages? Well that's not fair, at least he tries in the wildcard round...

I must be on ignore by now...

Lawyers hate it when facts are thrown in their face...

Deus Irae said:

They're not trying to qualify. They're trying to disqualify. Big difference...

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Not if you feel his accomplishments are being blown out of proportion

Look, no one is doubting Luck's talents...but it's the common perception of him that bothers me the most. Just look at how Rolling Stone characterized him and his "unstoppable rise." Unbelievable!

You would think by now people would've noted his failure against the Pats. Look how easily the Pats are able to take advantage of his weaknesses on a regular basis, and yet no one seems to pay attention to that.

If Brady were to suffer as big an embarrassment, people in the media would call him washed up and ask him to retire. But when Luck suffers colossal defeats, it does nothing to tarnish his image at all.

It's time we strip Luck of his aura, and consider him as flawed as any other quarterback in the League.

Chiuba E. Obele said:

You are hitting the nail on the head with this. Arm strength affects someone most on intermediate throws, not deep ones. It's about velocity, not being able to get it 40 yards in air.

Peyton Manning's arm is garbage at this point, and has been since 2012. But I admire how he re-taught himself to throw again. I think that's the moment where he truly earned my respect. It took a lot of dedication for him to do that.

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The leg injury story was probably true last year. That said, mannings nerve damage is a real issue.

I expect Peyton to come out slinging it as usual, with a slow degrade into uselessness by week 15.

I also expect Tf'nB to show a similar slow decline in arm strength as the year progresses.

Funny thing is, one has a habit of proving such a thought while the other doesn't.

Maybe @Deus Irae wants to tell me about it...

Chiuba E. Obele said:

Not if you feel his accomplishments are being blown out of proportion

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And now you're doing it...

Luck took over a 2 win team. In his 3 years since:

3 11-5 seasons
2 Division titles
3 playoff appearances
3 playoff wins
2 postseasons with at least 1 win

That's a damn fine start to his career.

What some of you are doing is just a riff on the "But Montana never lost a Super Bowl" argument.....

Well, yeah, but that's because he was losing earlier in the playoffs. Yeah, Luck got steamrolled by the Patriots last year in the AFCCG, but he made it to the AFCCG. And he did it with Trent Richardson as his RB, and that defense that people here treat as a running joke.

Chiuba E. Obele said:

It's time we strip Luck of his aura, and consider him as flawed as any other quarterback in the League.

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That would be ridiculous. He's a top 3-10 talent (I'm not about to argue slotting, so I'll toss in a wide range), so why on Earth would we be foolish enough to consider him as flawed as most QBs in the league?

And I don't know where you're getting this 'aura' thing from. You're starting to sound like Woolster on this issue, and that's not a good thing, at all.

woolster22 said:

Maybe @Deus Irae wants to tell me about it...

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No. You're useless in this conversation, because you're not being an honest broker. If you keep up with the personal shots, though, I'll just put you on ignore and you'll be irrelevant to me in every conversation. It's no skin off my back.

Deus Irae said:

And now you're doing it...

Luck took over a 2 win team. In his 3 years since:

3 11-5 seasons
2 Division titles
3 playoff appearances
3 playoff wins
2 postseasons with at least 1 win

That's a damn fine start to his career.

What some of you are doing is just a riff on the "But Montana never lost a Super Bowl" argument.....

Well, yeah, but that's because he was losing earlier in the playoffs. Yeah, Luck got steamrolled by the Patriots last year in the AFCCG, but he made it to the AFCCG. And he did it with Trent Richardson as his RB, and that defense that people here treat as a running joke.




That would be ridiculous. He's a top 3-10 talent (I'm not about to argue slotting, so I'll toss in a wide range), so why on Earth would we be foolish enough to consider him as flawed as most QBs in the league?

And I don't know where you're getting this 'aura' thing from. You're starting to sound like Woolster on this issue, and that's not a good thing, at all.

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Cmon now Deus, there's better battle tested qbs in this league...

I'll let you move the goal posts...

And I will agree there is no young qb I would rather have than Luck.

The problem is, that wasn't the question.

Hell, for ONE playoff run I'd easily take Flacco or Jr manning...

Funny how I can quote deus' full diatribe, yet I'm only given a few words in return?

Guess that explains why he hasn't added in the discussion of real lawyers lately...

Deus Irae said:

And now you're doing it...

Luck took over a 2 win team. In his 3 years since:

3 11-5 seasons
2 Division titles
3 playoff appearances
3 playoff wins
2 postseasons with at least 1 win

That's a damn fine start to his career.

What some of you are doing is just a riff on the "But Montana never lost a Super Bowl" argument.....

Well, yeah, but that's because he was losing earlier in the playoffs. Yeah, Luck got steamrolled by the Patriots last year in the AFCCG, but he made it to the AFCCG. And he did it with Trent Richardson as his RB, and that defense that people here treat as a running joke.




That would be ridiculous. He's a top 3-10 talent (I'm not about to argue slotting, so I'll toss in a wide range), so why on Earth would we be foolish enough to consider him as flawed as most QBs in the league?

And I don't know where you're getting this 'aura' thing from. You're starting to sound like Woolster on this issue, and that's not a good thing, at all.

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Everything you just said is fair and valid. I just wanna point out that the Colts started off as a 2-win team, because they meant to lose those games on purpose, in order to get the top draft pick. So you can't really compare and contrast their record before and after Luck.

Which brings me back to my initial point..... you do realize we're talking about the Colts, right?

Deus Irae said:

No. You're useless in this conversation, because you're not being an honest broker. If you keep up with the personal shots, though, I'll just put you on ignore and you'll be irrelevant to me in every conversation. It's no skin off my back.

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Chiuba E. Obele said:

Everything you just said is fair and valid. I just wanna point out that the Colts started off as a 2-win team, because they meant to lose those games on purpose, in order to get the top draft pick. So you can't really compare and contrast their record before and after Luck.

Which brings me to my initial point..... you do realize we're talking about the Colts, right?

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Easy Chiuba, your challenging Herr DI's all powerful knowledge...he may do you a favor and put you on ignore after you prove him the fool...

...that's how it always starts

woolster22 said:

Easy Chiuba, your challenging Herr DI's all powerful knowledge...he may do you a favor and put you on ignore after you prove him the fool...

...that's how it always starts

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No offense to CEO, but he seems like the forums new attention whore. Half the threads on the front page and 65% of the posts on all of them are his, it's all for the likes and agrees. 2,300 posts in 6 months, anything to be heard. Fully expecting at least one dislike on every post I ever make from this point out.

woolster22 said:

Cmon now Deus, there's better battle tested qbs in this league...

I'll let you move the goal posts...

And I will agree there is no young qb I would rather have than Luck.

The problem is, that wasn't the question.

Hell, for ONE playoff run I'd easily take Flacco or Jr manning...

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My post, which started the discussion:

Deus Irae said:

No, it's not. All you have to do is watch him play.

If Brady retired tomorrow, and the Patriots could take any QB in the league except Rodgers (or JAG, to quiet the homers), Andrew Luck would be the guy they picked.


And rightly so.

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Where is there anything there about ONE playoff run?

This is my point about people moving the goalposts. I never said that Luck was the best QB in the league. I never said he was the third best, either, for that matter. I'd rank the QBs something like this:

Brady (38)
Rodgers (32)
Roethlisberger (33)
Brees (35)
Rivers (34)
Luck (26)



P. Manning (39) *



The asterisk on Manning is because I don't know exactly where to slot him, since I don't know how much of last year was because he just wore, and how much was on his injury.

So I've got Luck at #6 or #7 and rising, and at least 6 years younger than the rest of the group, while all the QBs above him would be either holding steady or falling.

That's why you take Luck as the Brady replacement.

woolster22 said:

Easy Chiuba, your challenging Herr DI's all powerful knowledge...he may do you a favor and put you on ignore after you prove him the fool...

...that's how it always starts

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You decided you wouldn't stop with the personal shots. That's why I'll now be putting you on ignore. You sure as hell haven't proven anyone but yourself a fool tonight.

woolster22 said:

Easy Chiuba, your challenging Herr DI's all powerful knowledge...he may do you a favor and put you on ignore after you prove him the fool...

...that's how it always starts

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I wish he would acknowledge the tendency of the media to overrate Luck and exaggerate his achievements. It's not just that we hate the Colts and everything they represent. It's that Luck genuinely gets more credit than he deserves.

He's not nearly judged by the same standards or the same level of scrutiny that Brady is. Even after four Super Bowl wins, Brady still hasn't received the accolades that he deserves. You can say that in some ways, Brady still is the six-round draft pick that's been glossed over by the establishment.

Deus Irae said:

My post, which started the discussion:



Where is there anything there about ONE playoff run?

This is my point about people moving the goalposts. I never said that Luck was the best QB in the league. I never said he was the third best, either, for that matter. I'd rank the QBs something like this:

Brady (38)
Rodgers (32)
Roethlisberger (33)
Brees (35)
Rivers (34)
Luck (26)



P. Manning (39) *



The asterisk on Manning is because I don't know exactly where to slot him, since I don't know how much of last year was because he just wore, and how much was on his injury.

So I've got Luck at #6 or #7 and rising, and at least 6 years younger than the rest of the group, while all the QBs above him would be either holding steady or falling.

That's why you take him as the Brady replacement.

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My biggest take away is that goddamn, I didn't realize Rodgers was ONLY 32, imagine if he stays productive til Brady's age, he's pretty much already too old to come CLOSE to matching in post season success, but everyone should appreciate his abilty as a QB, he's as special as TB, but with an added athletic ability.

strngplyr said:

No offense to CEO, but he seems like the forums new attention whore. Half the threads on the front page and 65% of the posts on all of them are his, it's all for the likes and agrees. 2,300 posts in 6 months, anything to be heard. Fully expecting at least one dislike on every post I ever make from this point out.

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If that's how you truly feel, feel free to put me on ignore. Otherwise, there's nothing I can do for you

PS. I give far more positive ratings to others than I receive. Don't see how I'm an attention whore

And, it didn't take long for that dislike.

Chiuba E. Obele said:

If that's how you truly feel, feel free to put me on ignore. Otherwise, there's nothing I can do for you

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I have no reason to ignore you, you just seem like the person on youtube or reddit who "FIRSTS!" everything.

I don't dislike the information you generally post, you just go out of your way to make sure that it's you who provides it and noone else, as evidence by having usually half of the threads on the front page started by you.