LOL, Rolling Stone just released their special "we all got beat by the Patriots" edition

Deus Irae said:

What the hell are you talking about "when has he had to really step up?" He just took his team to the AFCCG this past season. The season before, he orchestrated an amazing comeback against the Chiefs.

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He has potential....but he happens to be play for the worst kind of team. I don't see how you can get over that

ViperGTS said:

Hell no. I saw him play a couple times in AZ when they played Stanford. Men among boys. Had me thinking Brady stuff. Hasn't translated yet, but there is time. I just dislike the foaming at the mouth glorification that Manning got. I'll say this. I'd take Luck over Manning at the same age. I'm not biased. I just go off of what my eyes tell me. Thats all

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Luck had a 96.5 QB rating this year, and took his team to the AFCCG. He threw for 40 TDs, and only had 16 INTs. To say that it "hasn't translated yet" is crazy talk.

Chiuba E. Obele said:

He has potential....but he happens to be play for the worst kind of team. I don't see how you can get over that

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You get over that because you're talking about the player, not the team.

Deus Irae said:

What the hell are you talking about "when has he had to really step up?" He just took his team to the AFCCG this past season. The season before, he orchestrated an amazing comeback against the Chiefs.

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The Chiefs? C'Mon man...

A rainy warm day in NE last year...nothing. He did nothing. The match was such a stomping the only thing memorable about the massacre is a league witch hunt.

Rivers would have managed 2 tds to Gates on our mangled lb crew...

woolster22 said:

The Chiefs? C'Mon man...

A rainy warm day in NE last year...nothing. He did nothing. The match was such a stomping the only thing memorable about the massacre MTV is a league witch hunt.

Rivers would have managed 2 tds to Gates on our mangled lb crew...

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You're useless in this conversation. You're just moving the goalposts.

ausbacker said:

You can't deny Andrew Luck is a supremely talented Quarterback but his pontification is hilarious. Indy has replaced Manning with Manning. That bodes well for New England.

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Exactly! I'm sure at some point, they'll grow tired of losing to the Pats, and figure out a way to beat us (that same way Manning did). But as it is, they are a very one-dimensional team, and I don't see them changing their approach anytime soon.

Part of me feels sorry for Luck. His coaches, general manager, and owners are doing him a great disservice.

Deus Irae said:

You get over that because you're talking about the player, not the team.

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Last time I checked, he wears the same jersey as the rest of them

Deus Irae said:

Luck had a 96.5 QB rating this year, and took his team to the AFCCG. He threw for 40 TDs, and only had 16 INTs. To say that it "hasn't translated yet" is crazy talk.

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Again, against what competition? That cannot be discounted or dismissed. Ran into a real team and got smoked. Baltimore or Seattle would have done the same as the Patriots. Definately Seattle.

ViperGTS said:

Again, against what competition? That cannot be discounted or dismissed. Ran into a real team and got smoked. Baltimore or Seattle would have done the same as the Patriots. Definately Seattle.

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And we're now at the "real team" stage of goalpost moving...

Well, Luck beat a Denver team that went 12-4 on the season, and had home field advantage. But you'll just minimize that too, I suppose, rather than just admitting the obvious.

Deus Irae said:

You're useless in this conversation. You're just moving the goalposts.

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I'm not moving **** Deus.

I said I'd rather have Rivers this year than Luck.

Both are stuck within garbage organizations. The difference is Rivers has shown the ability to carry a team WHILE INJURED.

Granted, age as a factor, I'd be stupid to argue against Luck ad the number two. Maybe some drunk idiot could argue Wilson instead.

There was no age qualifier originally. I stand by my judgement of Rodgers (no. 1 after Brady), and then Rivers, FOR THIS SEASON.

If this was a discussion if the best quarterback for the next 5 years...****, it's Rogers and Luck, no argument there.

To say I have no use in the conversation? Get over yourself *******. That's simply another example of your arrogance overcoming your own ability to see what the question really was. Take the blinders off Sir Ambulance Chaser, you'll be enlightened.

ViperGTS said:

Again, against what competition? That cannot be discounted or dismissed. Ran into a real team and got smoked. Baltimore or Seattle would have done the same as the Patriots. Definately Seattle.

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And that's what I don't get about the Colts. Compared to the other teams you mentioned, I'm not sure if they know how to put together a team that can compete with the best. There's a lot that goes into winning in both the regular season and in the playoffs. But I think they'd rather take shortcuts than to put in the time and effort that's required. And they seem more concerned with bringing down their opponents through treachery, rather than actually learning from them.

Deus Irae said:

And we're now at the "real team" stage of goalpost moving...

Well, Luck beat a Denver team that went 12-4 on the season, and had home field advantage. But you'll just minimize that too, I suppose, rather than just admitting the obvious.

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Has zero to do with goal post moving. Manning was practically in a wheelchair. Everyone knows that. The record means nothing in regards to that game. And yes, the quality of opponents you beat or lose to is a determine factor. Doesn't everyone point to Rex and the Bears as a reason to poo poo on Mannings one title?

Deus Irae said:

And we're now at the "real team" stage of goalpost moving...

Well, Luck beat a Denver team that went 12-4 on the season, and had home field advantage. But you'll just minimize that too, I suppose, rather than just admitting the obvious.

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With "noodle arm" manning the helm...

FFS, everyone knew Peytie Pie couldn't hit a 10 yd out by then...

woolster22 said:

I'm not moving **** Deus.

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Yes, you are. You asked about what he'd done when his seasons were on the line. I noted what he'd done, and you switched straight to the Patriots game.

That's moving the goalposts.


And that's why you're useless in the conversation. You'll never stop spinning.


Perfect example:

woolster22 said:

With "noodle arm" manning the helm...

FFS, everyone knew Peytie Pie couldn't hit a 10 yd out by then...

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Fencer said:

BB beat Peyton like drum numerous times, but eventually he became competitive against the Pats. It could easily happen with Luck as well.

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It was never anything close to this bad, probably because the team around Peyton was a lot more competent than the team around Luck. I think Polian's generally overrated, but compared to him Grigson is filling out depth charts in crayon.

Pretty much by himself, Luck is good enough to pull wins out of his ass against some pretty good teams. Anyone who doubts that needs to go back and watch the Chiefs playoff game from a couple years ago. The Colts had little business winning that, but Luck pretty much willed it to happen. I have a ton of respect for the guy based on his ability to do that. Year in and year out, he's dragging a team that would be 4-12 with an average QB into AFC contention. Indy's lucky to have him, and if Brady's eventual replacement is even close to that good I'll be psyched.

But it just won't matter while Grigson's GM, IMO. He sucks. He's easily one of the worst in the league, who's getting way more runway than he deserves because even he couldn't screw up the #1 pick when Andrew Luck was available. The day might eventually come when Luck's Colts are competitive with the Pats. But that won't happen until after they add a lot of good players that currently aren't on the roster. And Grigson's not going to find them, because he's an idiot.

woolster22 said:

With "noodle arm" manning the helm...

FFS, everyone knew Peytie Pie couldn't hit a 10 yd out by then...

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You are hitting the nail on the head with this. Arm strength affects someone most on intermediate throws, not deep ones. It's about velocity, not being able to get it 40 yards in air.

Peyton Manning's arm is garbage at this point, and has been since 2012. But I admire how he re-taught himself to throw again. I think that's the moment where he truly earned my respect. It took a lot of dedication for him to do that.

ViperGTS said:

Has zero to do with goal post moving. Manning was practically in a wheelchair. Everyone knows that. The record means nothing in regards to that game. And yes, the quality of opponents you beat or lose to is a determine factor. Doesn't everyone point to Rex and the Bears as a reason to poo poo on Mannings one title?

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Well I certainly think mannings (90 degree cheating victory) and concurrent victory against such an awful bears team (while being carried throughout the playoffs by his defense, including that superbowl) denigrates his legacy...

ViperGTS said:

Has zero to do with goal post moving. Manning was practically in a wheelchair. Everyone knows that. The record means nothing in regards to that game. And yes, the quality of opponents you beat or lose to is a determine factor. Doesn't everyone point to Rex and the Bears as a reason to poo poo on Mannings one title?

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It's all about moving the goalposts. That's all you've got, because the numbers argument crapped out on you. You decide the only games and teams that count, and you keep changing the parameters.

You're doing the same thing Woolster's doing.

Deus Irae said:

It's all about moving the goalposts. That's all you've got, because the numbers argument crapped out. You decide the only games and teams that count, and you keep changing the parameters.

You're doing the same thing Woolster's doing.

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I think what they're saying is that they are important qualifiers to consider when looking at Luck's recent accomplishments. And if you don't factor in those details, then it becomes very easy to over-rate him and overlook his shortcomings (which were exposed in the AFC title match against the Pats)

Deus Irae said:

Yes, you are. You asked about what he'd done when his seasons were on the line. I noted what he'd done, and you switched straight to the Patriots game.

That's moving the goalposts.


And that's why you're useless in the conversation. You'll never stop spinning.


Perfect example:

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So the fact that Manning was a shadow of himself when luck beat him is irrelevant?