Brady v. NFL Court Hearing Thread (8/31) - Live Update and Tweets

Here's a reason/scenario Brady might not appeal:

• Keep in mind that Brady winning an appeal of a loss before Berman is a real longshot. First, you have the preference of the courts to uphold arbitration awards. Second, he's already had a judge listen to his best arguments and not found them persuasive enough. Together that's a really bad sign.
• Brady loses before Berman.
• Brady asks and receives a stay pending appeal from Berman
• NFL appeals
• NFL asks CA2 to overturn the stay.
• All this takes time, and by the time CA2 acts on the NFL's motion to vacate the stay it is late November.
• CA2 vacates the stay. (Note that CA2 can vacate the stay before the appeal is decided.)
• Brady now misses the entire month of December. Or worse yet, CA2 vacates the stay in December and Brady misses the first playoff game.

If Brady could be guaranteed that any suspension he ultimately served was next season I'm sure he'd appeal in a heartbeat. But there's no such guarantee.

farn said:

I don't think Brady appeals. Berman seems to be leaning heavily in the PA's favour and if HE goes NFL, an appeal would be difficult to win. I think the NFL will appeal.

Click to expand...

I still can believe that this thing is still gonna continue on after Berman rules.

From Ideal Gas Law-influenced footballs in January to a federal appeals court. The US Supreme Court is not far fetched anymore.

Amazing.

Agreed @robertweathers

This is insanity : especially that it went from PSI to "everything BUT" in about no time at all.

I think if Brady wins, the NFL won't appeal.

If what we've been hearing is correct, the owners are tired of this mess and want it over and done with before the season starts.

It's one thing to fill time in the offseason to slander your biggest nemesis, but during the season it's a distraction for the entire league.

Heck, when Michaels and Collinsworth are talking more about Brady's appeal during an OAK/AZ game on Sunday, than the actual football game, that should show you how much of a headache this will be going forward...

cscirpoli said:

This was a stupid article with little to no information that did not add one iota of intelligence to any type of conversation.

Click to expand...

I disagree emphatically.

That wasn't a sports article at all. It was an opinion column saying:

• Unions provide important protection for workers.
• It's bad that in the US most workers don't have union protection.
• That even Tom Brady needs this protection should open our eyes about how much ordinary workers need unions.

Agree or disagree as you choose -- my own opinion probably leans against that of the columnist -- but please don't say the column was content-free.

Todd Bradley said:

In what way?

We've been told by numerous "insiders" and "journalists" in tweets and column tidbits for months that the Wells Report would exonerate Brady, to Brady only getting a one game suspension, to the suspension being removed and Brady only getting a fine, and so on and so forth for months upon months....and everytime we got our hopes up, we were on the opposite end of the result we craved.

Click to expand...

quiet..Deus doesn't like this type of logic.

QuantumMechanic said:

Here's a reason/scenario Brady might not appeal:

• Keep in mind that Brady winning an appeal of a loss before Berman is a real longshot. First, you have the preference of the courts to uphold arbitration awards. Second, he's already had a judge listen to his best arguments and not found them persuasive enough. Together that's a really bad sign.
• Brady loses before Berman.
• Brady asks and receives a stay pending appeal from Berman
• NFL appeals
• NFL asks CA2 to overturn the stay.
• All this takes time, and by the time CA2 acts on the NFL's motion to vacate the stay it is late November.
• CA2 vacates the stay. (Note that CA2 can vacate the stay before the appeal is decided.)
• Brady now misses the entire month of December. Or worse yet, CA2 vacates the stay in December and Brady misses the first playoff game.

If Brady could be guaranteed that any suspension he ultimately served was next season I'm sure he'd appeal in a heartbeat. But there's no such guarantee.

Click to expand...

Or it stretches into next season, which is also a possibility. Honestly, I think the owners would be horrified to have this stretch on longer and longer and even into the play-offs. Imagine the Super Bowl champs not having a chance to defend their title properly as this thing goes into month 10 or 11.

It isn't just about the legal arguments; we've seen the league cave when public PR nightmares happen. Even if the NFL is 100% convinced of their soundness, the Defamegate stench filling 3 or 4 months of the regular season and into the play-offs has to be terrifying to many owners.

Brady should drag this out as long as possible and exhaust every option available, which is what Kraft should have done from the start.

Gronkowski123 said:

quiet..Deus doesn't like this type of logic.

Click to expand...

I agreed with Deus but had forgotten that a few had predicted a small fine etc... But the rest of the rhetoric was already calling Tom Brady a cheater. Football players were dancing across ESPN'/NFL stages tossing footballs to each other and asking "can you fell the difference in this ball?". The Frame job had already started.

So yes there were a few that stated it wouldn't be a huge penalty but there were plenty of negative headlines which exploded once the Wells report came out followed by the suspension.

convertedpatsfan said:

Or it stretches into next season, which is also a possibility. Honestly, I think the owners would be horrified to have this stretch on longer and longer and even into the play-offs. Imagine the Super Bowl champs not having a chance to defend their title properly as this thing goes into month 10 or 11.

It isn't just about the legal arguments; we've seen the league cave when public PR nightmares happen. Even if the NFL is 100% convinced of their soundness, the Defamegate stench filling 3 or 4 months of the regular season and into the play-offs has to be terrifying to many owners.

Brady should drag this out as long as possible and exhaust every option available, which is what Kraft should have done from the start.

Click to expand...

If this goes to appeals, I think it will either get decided within a month, or not until after the season. The early-October bye week would be a good time to sit before the panel. Otherwise, I think Kessler can come up with the appropriate delaying and stalling maneuvers.

Chiuba E. Obele said:

Yeah, I didn't quite get that one

Click to expand...

Milstein believes that asking both sides if they want to add anything to the record indicates that he believes an appeal is coming.

Milstein thinks it's a certainty that the NFL will appeal if they lose, but that Brady might not.

Therefore, he thinks that telegraphing his expectation of an appeal suggests--if anything (and emphasis on if anything)--a Brady win as the more likely outcome.

I think it's important not to read much into that line of reasoning, as it doesn't even sound like Milstein is. It's more of "if you have to read something out of this, this is what would be the most sensible reading". He's by no means making a strong prediction.

Todd Bradley said:

I think if Brady wins, the NFL won't appeal.

If what we've been hearing is correct, the owners are tired of this mess and want it over and done with before the season starts.

It's one thing to fill time in the offseason to slander your biggest nemesis, but during the season it's a distraction for the entire league.

Heck, when Michaels and Collinsworth are talking more about Brady's appeal during an OAK/AZ game on Sunday, than the actual football game, that should show you how much of a headache this will be going forward...

Click to expand...

I wish I agreed, but I think the NFL will appeal if they lose for the same reason that they brought it this far in the first place: because this isn't about deflated footballs. It's about union-busting and setting the stage for the next CBA. I think the NFL will exhaust every available opportunity to get Article 46 affirmed in federal court--and the higher the court the better--as a weapon with which the commissioner can do whatever he wants.

The NFL wants the players to be so desperate to remove this authority from the commissioner that they'll make major concessions elsewhere. By allowing yet another district to smack down article 46, OTOH, the NFL would be losing a pretty major bargaining chip with nothing to show for it.

Ive been in a position for over 20 years which includes issuing discipline. Discipline is issued to change behavior, at least that is what we are taught. Never would you see a 15 year Employee with zero blemishes be treated like this in any other respectable organization.
And to the NFLPA, what a friggin joke of a contract. Seriously, what in the world did they think would happen with article 46?

Zero chance of a fair grievance process.

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 5m5 minutes ago
The lawyers are bracing for a Tuesday ruling from Judge Berman in the Brady case http://wp.me/p14QSB-9Q2y

From the link.

Per a source with knowledge of the situation, the lawyers currently expect a decision from Judge Richard M. Berman on Tuesday.

Click to expand...

JDot said:

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 5m5 minutes ago
The lawyers are bracing for a Tuesday ruling from Judge Berman in the Brady case http://wp.me/p14QSB-9Q2y

From the link.

Click to expand...

To be fair, they wouldn't really be doing their jobs if they weren't. Berman did explicitly say that there was a very good chance he would rule on Tuesday.

Todd Bradley said:

In what way?

We've been told by numerous "insiders" and "journalists" in tweets and column tidbits for months that the Wells Report would exonerate Brady, to Brady only getting a one game suspension, to the suspension being removed and Brady only getting a fine, and so on and so forth for months upon months....and everytime we got our hopes up, we were on the opposite end of the result we craved.

Click to expand...

Again, where are all these tweets? I remember precisely the opposite being the case.

In fact, I remember being one of less than a handful of people killing the Wells report, and having to calm down the panicked, when it first came out.

I got a bad feeling about this. My gut feeling is that if the Judge really thought Brady was being railroaded and was 100% innocent, he would not push for a settlement. Because of that, I think he will rule in favor of the NFL and give Goodell absolute power. I also think that Brady should retire and say fck you to the NFL and Kraft and go live his life with his hot ass wife.

Tony2046 said:

I agreed with Deus but had forgotten that a few had predicted a small fine etc... But the rest of the rhetoric was already calling Tom Brady a cheater. Football players were dancing across ESPN'/NFL stages tossing footballs to each other and asking "can you fell the difference in this ball?". The Frame job had already started.

So yes there were a few that stated it wouldn't be a huge penalty but there were plenty of negative headlines which exploded once the Wells report came out followed by the suspension.

Click to expand...

Yes..... this. There was no consistent drumbeat going on in the "Free Brady" direction early on. Far from it...

Deus Irae said:

Again, where are all these tweets? I remember precisely the opposite being the case.

In fact, I remember being one of less than a handful of people killing the Wells report, and having to calm down the panicked, when it first came out.

Click to expand...

Hes not talking about the case, hes talking about how everything has gone against Brady since the AFCCG even with all the false hopes we had from"sources". But of course they were all from before Berman so it's not relevant.

mosi said:

I got a bad feeling about this. My gut feeling is that if the Judge really thought Brady was being railroaded and was 100% innocent, he would not push for a settlement. Because of that, I think he will rule in favor of the NFL and give Goodell absolute power. I also think that Brady should retire and say fck you to the NFL and Kraft and go live his life with his hot ass wife.

Click to expand...

Hold on...a Federal Court Judge has 3 objectives in this priority.

1) Uphold the Constitution of the US and the Bill of Rights.
2) Interpret law, apply it to the matter at hand, guide the parties to a peaceful resolution and when necessary, rule accordingly.
3) Avoid appeals to a higher court.

Apply that to this case.

Deus Irae said:

Again, where are all these tweets? I remember precisely the opposite being the case.

In fact, I remember being one of less than a handful of people killing the Wells report, and having to calm down the panicked, when it first came out.

Click to expand...

You're seriously asking me to find you the hundreds of tweets and articles that spoke to Brady's defense over the last eight months, in order to wet your appetite? Seriously?

Here's something you can do, go scroll back eight months in time and skimp through each Deflategate-based post on this site. You'll find them all in there....