Wetzel: Goodell, NFL could win ruling yet still lose (plus, we get mentioned!)

patfanken · Aug 31, 2015

I just want to add again, that the Curran article makes mounting a defamation suit even more imperative if we want the whole story to be told. Just getting back Brady for the start of the season really doesn't solve the problem. Only a defamation suit will allow Brady to get the ENTIRE story told. Whether anything happened at the AFCCG will NOT be a factor tomorrow. But in a defamation suit, it will be front and center. Pash, Goodell, Kensil, Welles, and even Mort among many others, will have to take the stand and defend their malicious actions in this matter.

The Problem here is Roger Goodell and the incestuous group of incompetent and malicious men who are not only harming the Pats and Brady, but the rest of the league as well. They NEED go and they need to be gone soon, and it will ONLY be through a defamation suit that it can happen.

nabwong · Aug 31, 2015

shmessy said:
" He's practically been a PatsFans.com message board poster in a black robe......"

Dan, we don't wear robes when we post!

Shmessy, I think your fingernails are due a trim.

patsfan13 · Aug 31, 2015

If Berman uses the any/all of the 4 process problems identified by Kessler, the NFL is more likely than not hosed.

The 2nd Court would be ruling of Berman's ruling being sound. As McCann, Stradly and Wallach have all noted, whoever loses with Berman has a much tougher case trying to win at the next level.

Tony2046 · Aug 31, 2015

Patsfanin Philly said:
Can you imagine if he lurked here and read the postings?

I wouldn't doubt it. This site has been a gold mine of info for me personally. People have broken down every angle of deflategate to incredible levels of understanding. Legal questions? No problem. Science snafu? No problem. Grammar, philosophy...etc..? No problem.

Patsfans is giving Khan Academy a run for their money.

TruthSeeker · Aug 31, 2015

JMC00 said:
Here we go again with someone citing the Garvey case and clearly not reading into that case at all.

Exactly. The Garvey case is essentially irrelevant since it does not address any of the NFLPA arguments. No one is disputing the conclusions of Garvey!

RobertWeathers · Aug 31, 2015

XLIX said:
The fact that he specifically mentioned this forum tells me there's a good chance he does.

This is a good place to go for news on the subject. Instead of searching various sports media outlets, I know that if anything happens, there will be a thread started on it almost immediately.

Well, he's now up to speed on how much his board thinks Gary Tanguay is worthless.

PP2 · Aug 31, 2015

TruthSeeker said:
Exactly. The Garvey case is essentially irrelevant since it does not address any of the NFLPA arguments. No one is disputing the conclusions of Garvey!

Actually it is quite relevant; a passage from Garvey:

"It is only when the arbitrator strays from interpretation and application of the agreement and effectively 'dispenses his own brand of industrial justice' that his decision may be unenforceable." (emphasis mine).

Patsfanin Philly · Aug 31, 2015

XLIX said:
The fact that he specifically mentioned this forum tells me there's a good chance he does.

This is a good place to go for news on the subject. Instead of searching various sports media outlets, I know that if anything happens, there will be a thread started on it almost immediately.

I was referring to Judge Berman, not Wetzel reading this site. I'm sure Wetzel reads it, considering he cited it in the article. It makes you wonder how any others of the media ( the non- lazy ones) read it as well.....

shmessy · Aug 31, 2015

Tony2046 said:
I wouldn't doubt it. This site has been a gold mine of info for me personally. People have broken down every angle of deflategate to incredible levels of understanding. Legal questions? No problem. Science snafu? No problem. Grammar, philosophy...etc..? No problem.

Patsfans is giving Khan Academy a run for their money.

Yeah we have a lot of Cliff Klavens here.

Halifax_Pats_Fan · Aug 31, 2015

I am gonna need a crowbar to get that image of the dude surfing out of my mind....please let this NOT be the thread for updates today...no, please god no.....no.....

Rob0729 · Aug 31, 2015

patfanken said:
BINGO, we have BINGO.

That's right on the mark, Rob, and deserves to be repeated. The Garvey precedent can be easily be overcome by the overwhelming evidence that the NFL deliberately acted unfairly, and unethically in this matter. As silly as the MLB case decision was, the process wasn't rigged. In this case, the entire process was rigged and Berman has already acknowledged this.

Of course, Judgex rule strangely all the time, so anything is possible, but if Berman plans to us Garvey as a reason to rule for the league on Garvey, he's going to have make a giant stretch to do it. And everything we've seen from him would lead us to believe he ISN'T ready to make that leap. Rather than present reasoned arguments to counter Kessler, it seems all the NFL can do now. is try and intimidate Berman with the threat of an appeal.

BTW- now that I have your attention, Rob let me offer run this by you (and others). Curran's article really cements the reality that nothing happened at the AFCCG. Bu tmore critically, it also makes it clear that Welles and Pash deliberately hid exculpatory evidence in order to make a fraudulent case against Brady and the Pats. They would have had to know well in advance of the publication of the report. that nothing really happened and went through with their prosecution anyway . Now I don't know if that reaches the level of criminality. but it certainly must crash through some ethical barriers that bar associations may deem worthy of their oversight.

I know for certain, if a DA hid exculpatory evidence like Pash and Welles, at best he'd be fired and lose his license to practice law. At worst he might face criminal charges. But I know this is a civil issue and I guess lawyers are supposed to cheat, lie, and manipulate the facts in their client's favor. Even still, there ARE rules of conduct that even lawyers are supposed to abide by. Knowing that neither Brady or the Pats did anything wrong before they presented the report, and then manipulating that evidence to best support a narrative the league office had taken, seems to me to be actionable.. Am I just a nut who wants revenge or did these lawyers have crossed the line.

.

I am not a lawyer. So I don't know how ethics violations are considered by the Bar and whether this would be a case that they would look at. The funny thing is that if Pash and Wells went in front of the Bar's ethics board, I would bet that they would argue that they did violate any rules of ethics because they were acting as independent investigators and not attorneys. You know that they will want it both ways - deny Brady access to work products and access to Pash on grounds of attorney client privilege and then try to skate on ethics charges because they weren't attorneys in this case.

But I don't think Pash cares. Although he is General Counsel for the NFL, I don't think he actually practices law anymore. He is in charge of all legal matters for the NFL. But when they go to court, they usually outsource it to other firms. Most corporations' general counsel don't actually have to have a practicing attorney anymore. They need to know the law as only an attorney would, but their days of going to court and practicing law is over. The only reason he would still want his license is to be able to hide behind attorney client privilege in cases like this.

shmessy · Aug 31, 2015

Halifax_Pats_Fan said:
I am gonna need a crowbar to get that image of the dude surfing out of my mind....please let this NOT be the thread for updates today...no, please god no.....no.....

Hey, I lost 20 pounds for that picture!

.

Rob0729 · Aug 31, 2015

shmessy said:
Hey, I lost 20 pounds for that picture!

.

What? Did the roasted turkey fall out of one of your fat rolls?

billdog3484 · Aug 31, 2015

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/roger-...ate-gate-ruling-yet-still-lose-010959640.html

In the month since the case went before Berman, the judge has put the league's attention to fairness under a bright spotlight. He released the full transcripts to all hearings, including Brady's appeal, which the NFL sought to seal, exposing numerous problems and mischaracterizations. He's questioned the league's motives. He's cracked jokes about its procedures. He's played along with Kessler's colorful rants that play well in the media. He's practically been a PatsFans.com message board poster in a black robe.

Ivan · Aug 31, 2015

IcyPatriot said:
I'm thinking there will be more owner pressure for him to drop it if tomorrow goes against them.

Cooler heads will prevail and a more fair system of justice will be discussed.

Awesome. I have always wanted to see a guillotine in action.

Joker · Aug 31, 2015

I, Joe Kerr The Indefensible, am actually Judge Berman...and I'm going to give you all an early Christmas present...

WE BEAT 'EM, BABY!!!

aluminum seats · Aug 31, 2015

Patsfanin Philly said:
Can you imagine if he lurked here and read the postings?

The guy's been writing smart articles about this whole thing. I assume that anyone who has been on point with this stuff reads us.

Patsfanin Philly · Aug 31, 2015

aluminum seats said:
The guy's been writing smart articles about this whole thing. I assume that anyone who has been on point with this stuff reads us.

That leaves out the Mensa members working at 345 Park avenue.....

Ivan · Aug 31, 2015

You only bring Mara in to get the league to buckle, he has no sway with Brady, Kessler, and the NFLPA. I'm guessing Berman is making one last effort to get the NFL to be reasonable before he rules for Brady.

archstanton543 · Aug 31, 2015

Ivan said:
You only bring Mara in to get the league to buckle, he has no sway with Brady, Kessler, and the NFLPA. I'm guessing Berman is making one last effort to get the NFL to be reasonable before he rules for Brady.

You bring Mara in because he's the head of the committee the NFLPA is suing.

Wetzel: Goodell, NFL could win ruling yet still lose (plus, we get mentioned!)

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