Offensive Line Discussions

I feel there needs to be a thread dedicated to discussing all aspects of the Offensive Line.

1) Has anyone seen Bryan Stork and how close or how far isi he from returning?

2) How is Shaq Mason doing at LG? Can he start o opening day What are the realistic alternatives?

3)What is your opinion of Kline at LG?

4) What is your opinion of Groy at LG?

5) What is your opinion of Andrew ar C?

6) what is your opinion of Wendell at C?

70 When will Stork return?

8) How is Tre Jackson doing at RG?

9) What si your opinion of Wendell at RG.?

10) What is your opinion of Fleming at RG?

11) Waht si your opinion of Cannon at RG?

12) How healthy is Vollmer at RT?

13) Who is Vollmer's alternative at RT?

14) How is Solder at LT?

15) Who replaces Solder if he goes down?

16) Where does Matt Williams fit in?

17) What is the overall opinion of the O_line now and when/if it gells?

Great discussion, AZ--but those are quite a lot of questions to answer!

For awhile, I was considering Kline at LG so that Wendell could stay at RG, but I think that logic is flawed for a couple of reasons. I think it'd be easier to move Wendell than it would Kline, and I think that Wendell would likely be more effective at LG (than Kline).

That said, I do think that Kline makes the team, and I'm not 100 percent certain that there will be any rookies, let alone two who are starting--at least for the first month or so until we start to see reason for change. That could come either/both from injury and/or poor play.

I've always thought that Andrews was a prime candidate to make the PS, which will free up another player on the 53 while keeping him on the PS for future development. Supposedly, Belichick called him 2x during the late rounds of the draft to gauge his interest for an UDFA position, and they also gave him 35k as a bonus. It's hard for me to imagine another team stealing him away, but I could be wrong.

supafly said:

Great discussion, AZ--but those are quite a lot of questions to answer!

For awhile, I was considering Kline at LG so that Wendell could stay at RG, but I think that logic is flawed for a couple of reasons. I think it'd be easier to move Wendell than it would Kline, and I think that Wendell would likely be more effective at LG (than Kline).

That said, I do think that Kline makes the team, and I'm not 100 percent certain that there will be any rookies, let alone two who are starting--at least for the first month or so until we start to see reason for change. That could come either/both from injury and/or poor play.

I've always thought that Andrews was a prime candidate to make the PS, which will free up another player on the 53 while keeping him on the PS for future development. Supposedly, Belichick called him 2x during the late rounds of the draft to gauge his interest for an UDFA position, and they also gave him 35k as a bonus. It's hard for me to imagine another team stealing him away, but I could be wrong.

Click to expand...

People are free to answer any or none and raise other O-line issues. I'd just like them to be concentrated on the O-line, in one place.

I think that Vollmer definitely replaces Solder if he goes down, with Cannon taking over at RT. I think most of us would rather see Cannon stay on the right side of the line, where he looked more serviceable.

I know that we all discuss the possibility of either Cannon/Fleming moving inside to guard, but thus far, Belichick has used them both as tackles (other than the short experiment seeing Cannon inside, which failed). Cannon and Fleming are backing up Solder and Vollmer. In my opinion, they are all tackles playing on the outside, unless serious emergency arises.

Not sure where guys like Groy and Williams fit into this picture, although it's possible that ONE of them will stick, depending upon the greater need inside vs. outside.

CENTER
The first key is health at center. Stork is out and Wendell is coming back. We don't know how healthy Wendell is, and whether he has lost significant value (or not). I'm fine with Wendell on the team as the Game Day backup if we have guards who are ahead of him.

LEFT GUARD
I haven't a clue. I suspect that the most likely are Kline and Wendell. Either should be OK between Solder and Stork.

RIGHT GUARD
Jackson is the man. If he isn't ready, we have Wendell or even Kline.

TACKLES
Unless Belichick has a surprise trade/cut, we should be set with our four tackles. If there is a surprise, Williams is in the wings.

PRACTICE SQUAD
Andrews, Williams

A TENTH OFFENSIVE LINEMAN
I don't see carrying 10. Some would carry 8 if all are really ready to play (read if Mason is good enough for Prime Time). I'm fine with 9. Mason should be good enough to be our 9th OL.

OVERALL
I think that we're fine at OT and C. We are weak at the guards. Is Jackson an improvement over 2014 Connolly? Probably not. But Stork should be better. I'd say that we should be about the same as last year.

Is it merely the absence of Stork & Wendell for the reason that our OL has provided NO push whatsoever in the running game? Tre Jackson has not impressed at all in this regard, nor has Andrews (no surprise
there). Jackson has not impressed in any regard, actually. Too many missed assignments last night also, especially when the weak side pulls and forgets to close the back-side pursuit.

Not having Evan Mathis really sucks. For the contract he signed with the Donkey-faces, Bill had no excuse not to have signed him here. The FO better be scouring the waiver wire during the next week for athletic
left-side linemen with size, because except for Solder we don't have anybody fitting that description (and No, Hauptmann & Chris Martin do not count).

Will BB opt for a specialty lineman...because that is the only way Mason makes this team IMO. Goal line / short yardage snow plow path clearer / human turn style. Mini-Fridge lead blocker maybe?

I don't think Shaq Diesel is read to start.

With Develin racked up..........I'd love to see him line up at FB.

The S-Train commeth.

What is Cannon's signing bonus/guarantee #?

With Fleming and Williams around, he should be nervous.

Mason, Jackson, Wendell, Stork might be enough for interior. Esp. with Vollmer, Solder, Cannon and Fleming. If no Cannon, then add one guard.

Also, will Andrews make it through waivers? He's been paying early the whole preseason. Don't automatically assume he won't be picked up. Plenty people have seen him pay so far.

Don't be surprised if this is the final roster:

Solder, Jackson, Wendell, Stork, Vollmer, Fleming, Andrews and maybe Williams/Groy.

Cannon's payments for the rest of the year total $1.2M salary plus up to $250K in game bonuses.

upstater1 said:

What is Cannon's signing bonus/guarantee #?

With Fleming and Williams around, he should be nervous.

Mason, Jackson, Wendell, Stork might be enough for interior. Esp. with Vollmer, Solder, Cannon and Fleming. If no Cannon, then add one guard.

Also, will Andrews make it through waivers? He's been paying early the whole preseason. Don't automatically assume he won't be picked up. Plenty people have seen him pay so far.

Don't be surprised if this is the final roster:

Solder, Jackson, Wendell, Stork, Vollmer, Fleming, Andrews and maybe Williams/Groy.

Click to expand...

borg said:

Will BB opt for a specialty lineman...because that is the only way Mason makes this team IMO. Goal line / short yardage snow plow path clearer / human turn style. Mini-Fridge lead blocker maybe?

Click to expand...

I think Mason makes the team, since players selected that high do not normally get cut over the course of their first summer. As a matter of fact, I only think it's happened once for another fourth rounder.

I do agree that he shouldn't be a day one starter. Perhaps he proves to be quite a player next year and into the future, though?

upstater1 said:

Also, will Andrews make it through waivers? He's been paying early the whole preseason. Don't automatically assume he won't be picked up. Plenty people have seen him pay so far.

Click to expand...

Two thoughts here: 1) Although plenty have seen him play, he hasn't exactly looked good out there while doing so.

2) As noted, there have been reports of Belichick reaching out to him when no one else was very interested. That included a 35k dollar bonus to sign. If that's not enough to make him stay and turn down any other PS offers, so be it--but Im not sure how you can justify putting him in the 9-10 man OL rotation for the 53 man roster.

So gentle you are.

Since he became our coach, Belichick has NEVER EVER cut a fourth (or earlier) rounder in his first summer before the season started. The only was cut was a NT that was cut after a couple of games.

I don't think as much of Mason of other posters who want him to start. However, he is clearly on the roster. If he is a developmental prospect, then it is even more important that the 5th interior lineman have some experience; thus must posters choose Kline over Andrews.

supafly said:

I think Mason makes the team, since players selected that high do not normally get cut over the course of their first summer. As a matter of fact, I only think it's happened once for another fourth rounder (and that was an a very poor quality draft).

I do agree that he shouldn't be a day one starter. Perhaps he proves to be quite a player next year and into the future, though?

Click to expand...

robertweathers said:

I don't think Shaq Diesel is read to start.

With Develin racked up..........I'd love to see him line up at FB.

The S-Train commeth.

Click to expand...

IMO it's a great idea. We all know Shaq can run block...and he is not ready for prime time on the O-line just yet IMO. I would like to see this attempted in the last preseason game. Make it so.

supafly said:

I think Mason makes the team, since players selected that high do not normally get cut over the course of their first summer. As a matter of fact, I only think it's happened once for another fourth rounder.

I do agree that he shouldn't be a day one starter. Perhaps he proves to be quite a player next year and into the future, though?

Click to expand...

Mason looks more impressive in pre-season games than does Tre Jackson. Perhaps it should be Mason who starts at RG if Wendell is able to start the season at LG.

mgteich said:

Cannon's payments for the rest of the year total $1.2M salary plus up to $250K in game bonuses.

Click to expand...

No guarantees or signing bonuses then. A potential savings of 1.45m. Not much. BUT--he may be endangered.

Wait. People are suggesting we cut Shaq Mason. "Roster cut derangement syndrome".

mgteich said:

Since he became our coach, Belichick has NEVER EVER cut a first rounder in his first summer before the season started. The only was cut was a NT that was cut after a couple of games.

Click to expand...

I'm guessing that you meant fourth rounder, rather that first rounder. Either way, yes--my comment was in response to a poster who had suggested that Mason may not make the team. As we know, that isn't going to happen, as he is a lock.

The only time I remember a 4th rounder being cut was maybe in 2007? Is that who you are speaking of?

captain stone said:

Mason looks more impressive in pre-season games than does Tre Jackson. Perhaps it should be Mason who starts at RG if Wendell is able to start the season at LG.

Click to expand...

Unfortunately, Mason didn't get many attempts at pass protection due to Georgia Tech's run option scheme. I would bet that almost every single game had pass attempts that were in the single digits. I think that is the main concern with Mason, although I've got to be honest--I haven't really seen enough from either 4th round pick to suggest that they are ready to be a day one starter.

The draft guru's on the forum suggest that he's a LG only, but I'm sure the coaching staff will be open to whatever has the most potential to help the team.

I think the thing with Mason at LG is that the LG tends to go up against the quicker more pass-rushing interior defensive linemen (the 1-techs) so you need the quicker footed guys whereas the RT tends to go up against the big fatties so you want an earth mover there. Mason can play both but he certainly has the quick footedness to play LG (Tre Jackson doesn't) but he could slip into RG easily too.