Pro Footballl Focus top 10 QB

We shouldn't waste our time on this nonsense or give these people the clicks they want.

Material like this just reinforces my long held view that Tom Brady is going to have to wait to get the recognition he deserves from football historians, who will be writing long after the jealous morons who dominate today's 24/7 media machine have left the scene.

It might take a while, but I believe that Tom Brady will eventually be regarded, by consensus, as the GOAT, not only because he accomplished all that he did but because he accomplished it in the Cap/FA era. But, we're going to have to be patient and accept that it's going to take a while.

patfanken said:

Brady DID have a bad interception in the superbowl, but the second one was much more a great play by the LB than a bad throw by Brady. Clearly when these guys developed their metrics, they gave too much value to interceptions. But in the end who cares.

Why are we insulted by a site who subjectively rates QB's differently than we do. Given how all individual stats are skewed by the fact so much individual success is based on the work of so many others. It's the nature of the game. Even using mathematical methods, it is impossible to try to gauge individual success in a game so rooted in teamwork.

PFF is a function of fan demand to attempt to do just that. Why be angry at someone's attempt to do the impossible, just because it disagrees with our own very subjective opinions. Brady can be rated 20th as fare as I'm concerned, as long as I can still enjoy another double digit win season.


Just sayin'

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While we are knit-picking, Brady had a handful of really dumb interceptions inside the 20 last year.

If it was Drew Bledsoe or Bret Favre I'd think nothing of it, but it struck me as incredibly uncharacteristic for TB. its almost like someone gave him 5 shots of Makers Mark before he was inside the 20 and told him to throw.

AndyJohnson said:

PFF arenot football people. Their rankings are based on watching the TV feed (this may have changed, not sure) and grading players based upon their own made up and drastically flawed system. For example, they grade a QB higher for throwing into coverage than for finding the open reciever, give the bad choice bonus points for being a tough throw and downgrading the good choice as an easy throw.

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It used to be that all they got was the TV feed to make judgments on, but since the NFLN has been offering the coaches tapes each week, you almost HAVE to make the assumption that PFF, etc have their graders using that platform. Of course I may be giving them too much credit. I bet they probably have, somewhere on their site, a description of how their graders get their information.

robertweathers said:

While we are knit-picking, Brady had a handful of really dumb interceptions inside the 20 last year.

If it was Drew Bledsoe or Bret Favre I'd think nothing of it, but it struck me as incredibly uncharacteristic for TB. its almost like someone gave him 5 shots of Makers Mark before he was inside the 20 and told him to throw.

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Yes but he still threw 33 TD to 9 int. That is pretty darn good. And to say he was bad is the playoffs is just stupid. He was even better in the playoffs than the regular season.

patfanken said:

It used to be that all they got was the TV feed to make judgments on, but since the NFLN has been offering the coaches tapes each week, you almost HAVE to make the assumption that PFF, etc have their graders using that platform. Of course I may be giving them too much credit. I bet they probably have, somewhere on their site, a description of how their graders get their information.

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The view you are looking from doesn't matter if you don't understand what you are looking at.

mosi said:

Yes but he still threw 33 TD to 9 int. That is pretty darn good. And to say he was bad is the playoffs is just stupid. He was even better in the playoffs than the regular season.

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I agree. Every Qb throws a bad pick now and then. Brady has thrown his share and far less than 99.9% of the QBs in NFL History. The mind can work only so fast sometimes.

But to me, with his impeccable career of decision-making in those types of situations it just seemed very uncharacteristic for him.

PFF's is just logically flawed. it completely takes out these important factors

1. leadership
2. are you getting better?
3. weather
4. home vs. road
5. other intangibles (ability to bounce back, ability to lead a comeback, ability to inspire, etc, etc)

being great in september and october aren't same as being great in november, december, and january. leading a team 8-0 and then ends up 8-8 aren't same as being 0-8 and then 8-8.

NFL is almost always about how you finish. most teams are in it up until midpoint. but the cream will rise to the top.

AndyJohnson said:

The view you are looking from doesn't matter if you don't understand what you are looking at.

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again I would agree with you when PFF first started and through the first few years when they got some notoriety. . However I would have to think that after several more years of intense watching of the game, and their obvious passion for the sport, you would think, their graders would NOW have enough knowledge to at least offer a reasonable opinion for a non-professional.

We certainly don't require a background check here a Pats fans, before we allow people to offer their opinions. Now I've never been to PFF unless it was with a link given here, but I would guess, (as I did in the previous post) that the background of each of their graders should be found somewhere on the site.

ie."Frazier has been an avid follower of the NFl for the last decade and has been grading for us for the last 3 seasons." I would also think they would give the qualifications of who is allowed to become a grader.

Now I would guess that when he first started the site, the graders were his buddies, and your criticism would be spot on (I've used it myself on many occasions in criticizing their opinions.) However as the site has matured, it would be reasonable to expect that either the grader got better as their knowledge of the game increased or they added more experienced people. Most likely a bit of both.

I also don't believe that you have to have played the game to grade. I know a lot of guys who played the game for a long time and don't really have a feel for the scope of the game beyond the position they played themselves. You probably know more than a few yourself.

Again when used as an "indication" of how a player is doing, I think these sites have value, but I would hate the thought that any of our player personnel decisions are being based of any input of PFF data.

PFF doesn't grade these guys as quarterbacks, they grade them as passers. They have specifically said that a good pass into tight double coverage earns a higher grade than throwing to an open receiver. That's not just removing good decision-making from the equation, it's penalizing players for it. This isn't synchronized diving. There should be no degree of difficulty factor.

Joey007 said:

Matt Ryan is better than Tannehill IMO

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Maybe. I just see what Tannehill has had to work with and what Ryan has had to work with and think Tannehill could probably do what Ryan does with those weapons but I am unsure how Ryan would look in Miami.

The overrating of Aaron Rodgers continues. Not surprising.

In 5 years from now he'll still be at 1 SB ring and he'll have 10 playoff losses and <= 10 playoff wins. I wonder if everyone will still suck his **** then.

FourierSeries said:

The overrating of Aaron Rodgers continues. Not surprising.

In 5 years from now he'll still be at 1 SB ring and he'll have 10 playoff losses and <= 10 playoff wins. I wonder if everyone will still suck his **** then.

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A record of one and dones later and people still suck Peyton up so of course they'll do the same with Rodgers

FourierSeries said:

The overrating of Aaron Rodgers continues. Not surprising.

In 5 years from now he'll still be at 1 SB ring and he'll have 10 playoff losses and <= 10 playoff wins. I wonder if everyone will still suck his **** then.

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It's hard to win Super Bowls and hardly reflective of a quarterback if they fail to do so. Rodgers has been the best QB in the league for the last 5 years.

primetime said:

It's hard to win Super Bowls and hardly reflective of a quarterback if they fail to do so. Rodgers has been the best QB in the league for the last 5 years.

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3 of their playoff losses were mostly on him.

He's been the best regular season QB the last 5 years.

Sciz said:

PFF doesn't grade these guys as quarterbacks, they grade them as passers. They have specifically said that a good pass into tight double coverage earns a higher grade than throwing to an open receiver. That's not just removing good decision-making from the equation, it's penalizing players for it. This isn't synchronized diving. There should be no degree of difficulty factor.

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Well said. This is why in a Super Bowl you pick Terry Bradshaw over Peyton Manning, Troy Aikman over Dan Marino, Montana over Bret Favre or Brady over Andrew Luck.

Sciz said:

PFF doesn't grade these guys as quarterbacks, they grade them as passers. They have specifically said that a good pass into tight double coverage earns a higher grade than throwing to an open receiver. That's not just removing good decision-making from the equation, it's penalizing players for it. This isn't synchronized diving. There should be no degree of difficulty factor.

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Actually, they should grade QBs on decision making as a separate part of the grade (since that is what separates the best from the good from the mediocre from the poor). As you noted, the fact that they downgrade good decision making shows how ludicrous their rankings are.

And the PFF nonsense begins for another year. It's disappointing that there are still suckers on Patsfans.com who are foolish enough to follow that site and to buy into anything beyond their raw data, but it does take all kinds...

patfanken said:

again I would agree with you when PFF first started and through the first few years when they got some notoriety. . However I would have to think that after several more years of intense watching of the game, and their obvious passion for the sport, you would think, their graders would NOW have enough knowledge to at least offer a reasonable opinion for a non-professional.

We certainly don't require a background check here a Pats fans, before we allow people to offer their opinions. Now I've never been to PFF unless it was with a link given here, but I would guess, (as I did in the previous post) that the background of each of their graders should be found somewhere on the site.

ie."Frazier has been an avid follower of the NFl for the last decade and has been grading for us for the last 3 seasons." I would also think they would give the qualifications of who is allowed to become a grader.

Now I would guess that when he first started the site, the graders were his buddies, and your criticism would be spot on (I've used it myself on many occasions in criticizing their opinions.) However as the site has matured, it would be reasonable to expect that either the grader got better as their knowledge of the game increased or they added more experienced people. Most likely a bit of both.

I also don't believe that you have to have played the game to grade. I know a lot of guys who played the game for a long time and don't really have a feel for the scope of the game beyond the position they played themselves. You probably know more than a few yourself.

Again when used as an "indication" of how a player is doing, I think these sites have value, but I would hate the thought that any of our player personnel decisions are being based of any input of PFF data.

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All you have to do is look at their rankings to know they do not know what they are doing.
If you want to make assumptions and explain how awful analysis might be good under some circumstances you make up, then good for you.

primetime said:

It's hard to win Super Bowls and hardly reflective of a quarterback if they fail to do so. Rodgers has been the best QB in the league for the last 5 years.

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Only if the season you are talking about is the regular season, and then its debatable.

Seriously, Who Gives a FK about these articles?! These Mediots, Polls, Blogs etc are all BS! Its based on what people out there will comment on and more negative, better it sells. It's a popularity contest. They're not looking at actual facts of a player but who they like/want to be No. 1,2,3, etc etc etc.
Bottom line to all ALL QBs is who gets it done when it counts. Period! That. would be.TB! Everyone can pad their QB Stats, Brady just goes out there and gets it done in Playoffs where it Counts! What Brady did to Seahawks' Def ( Don't buy into their injuries they were flyin, hittin all over field) was pure surgical percision. He sliced them up after being down 24-14 and remember SS Def was in same breath as that Ravens Def from past. Whether they like it or not, Brady remains No 1 QB out there when it's Money Time.