Judge Doty chimes in

shmessy said:

Emotionally it is anti Goodell. And it is very anti-Goodell in the PETERSON case.

But this is a court of law, not a popularity contest.

In the Peterson case the Judge is saying that Goodell isn't paying attention to the CBA.

In the Brady case, Goodell is basing his entire case - - not on right or wrong - - but on the strict interpretation of the CBA giving him full authority to arbitrate.

If anything, it looks as if Doty is giving Goodell's lawyers a platform in the Brady case. Doty is upholding the importance of the CBA. The crappy CBA abdication by the NFLPA regarding Stokoe's arbitration powers is what Brady is trying to fight AGAINST in front of Berman. That is Brady's obstacle, not platform.

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I disagree. In the Brady case, as with the Peterson case, Goodell is basing his entire case on HIS interpretation of the CBA. NOT the general "Industry Practice" of the CBA..

shmessy said:

Not sure that one-liner will help Brady at all. IANAL, but it seems that will HURT Brady's case.

In Brady's case the NFL is basing EVERYTHING on the CBA.

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I see it as the opposite. It is clear that if this case was tried in front of Judge Doty, the suspension would be overturned.

The NFLPA is arguing the NFL violated the CBA in a number of different ways including prior notice. I think that is where Judge Doty is saying Goodell doesn't know there is a CBA and disregards all the collectively bargained rights of the players and hides behind Article 46.

shmessy said:

Emotionally it is anti Goodell. And it is very anti-Goodell in the PETERSON case.

But this is a court of law, not a popularity contest.

In the Peterson case the Judge is saying that Goodell isn't paying attention to the CBA.

In the Brady case, Goodell is basing his entire case - - not on right or wrong - - but on the strict interpretation of the CBA giving him full authority to arbitrate.

If anything, it looks as if Doty is giving Goodell's lawyers a platform in the Brady case. Doty is upholding the importance of the CBA. The crappy CBA abdication by the NFLPA regarding Stokoe's arbitration powers is what Brady is trying to fight AGAINST in front of Berman. That is Brady's obstacle, not platform.

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I understood it to mean that Doty thinks Goodell doesn't seem to understand that there are limits to what he is allowed to do according to the same CBA that Goodell insists gives him dictatorial authority. He is telling Goodell to go back to school and not waste the court's time win one losing case after another.

Judge Doty is a badass

shmessy said:

Not sure that one-liner will help Brady at all. IANAL, but it seems that will HURT Brady's case.

In Brady's case the NFL is basing EVERYTHING on the CBA.

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This is unfortunately true. It sucks that common sense and fairness take a back seat to law pedantry.

VrabelJr said:

This is unfortunately true.

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uh pretty much everyone is saying the opposite or they are saying that it doesn't really have any effect and it is just Doty stating the obvious.

JMC00 said:

uh pretty much everyone is saying the opposite or they are saying that it doesn't really have any effect and it is just Doty stating the obvious.

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I was agreeing with the second part of shmessy's post: "In Brady's case the NFL is basing EVERYTHING on the CBA."

The NFL is not basing everything on the CBA - they are basing everything on Article 46 and ignoring the remainder of the CBA. If they were basing things on the CBA, they would've had multiple much less severe ways to punish Brady based upon collectively bargained rules. Instead they simply are saying "Article 46 says we can do whatever, so we are gonna do whatever. All other CBA sections be damned!"

This is how Doty's words help Brady - he is saying Goodell does not understand there is a CBA, because if he did, he would've found many Players Association-accepted punishments, rather than "durr I am commissioner, you do bad, you get 4 games!"

robertweathers said:

Hes saying that Goody doesn't understand the CBA and isn't a lawyer who in theory has training to understand the CBA.

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It's not necessary that the Commissioner of a professional sports league be an attorney, but it sure seems like it helps. All of the commissioners of the other big three sports have law degrees from prestigious institutions that command the respect of judges.

The job is all about player, TV, stadium, merchandise and all sorts of contracts, and of course, labor law. Anti-trust law governs the leagues and tax law is also huge. As it becomes more clear, criminal law is also critical as these young, wealthy men act as if they are immune to real trouble (thank you Cris Carter!)

NBA Commissioner Adam Silver is a graduate of the University of Chicago Law School, MLB Commissioner Rob Manfred is a Harvard Law School graduate, former NFL Commissioner Paul Tagliabue is an NYU Law graduate, NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman is an NYU Law graduate, David Stern graduated from Columbia Law School.

Goodell? He's got a BS in economics from Washington & Jefferson College. Is it any wonder he's in so much legal hot water?

SVN said:

Stephanie Stradley ‏@StephStradley 29m29 minutes ago
Duurrrdeedoo MT @mchorowitz Federal Judge Doty asks whether Goodell understands there is a CBA

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Steph, can you dumb that down a bit for us non-lawyers?

SVN said:

Man, if we had got the case filed earlier in MN.

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Providing Berman rules for vacating the upholding, having the case filed in New York is even better. It shows that it isn't just the ruling of a rogue judge in Minnesota, that it's the NFL that's gone off the deep end. Plus unsealing everything has been an absolute gold mine for our side. Even if Berman winds up ruling against Brady Goodell's reputation for "integrity" has taken a hit he may not be able to recover from.

slam said:

Providing Berman rules for vacating the upholding, having the case filed in New York is even better. It shows that it isn't just the ruling of a rogue judge in Minnesota, that it's the NFL that's gone off the deep end. Plus unsealing everything has been an absolute gold mine for our side. Even if Berman winds up ruling against Brady Goodell's reputation for "integrity" has taken a hit he may not be able to recover from.

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How can you possibly think that? All anyone will remember is that Goodell wacked Brady for cheating and it was upheld in US Court. If anything this will embolden Goodell into thinking Article 46 is some kind of magic wand that he can wave to get whatever he wants.

VrabelJr said:

I was agreeing with the second part of shmessy's post: "In Brady's case the NFL is basing EVERYTHING on the CBA."

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This really is not correct.
As Doty points out, he doesnt think Goodell knows there is a CBA, because his actions consistently violate it.
In Brady, the NFL is trying to cover those violations by saying he can do whatever he wants.
Doty is consistent with Berman in that Goodell's actions are not covered by the CBA. The NFL has 2 options, argue that Goodell is making good choices, or say the CBA say he can rule that he didn't like the look on Brady's face so he concludes guilt based upon the power vested in him to determine guilt, and therefore can make any punishment he wants if he decides that is conduct detrimental. Both are wrong, but one pretends to have legal basis.

slackerjack said:

How can you possibly think that? All anyone will remember is that Goodell wacked Brady for cheating and it was upheld in US Court. If anything this will embolden Goodell into thinking Article 46 is some kind of magic wand that he can wave to get whatever he wants.

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100% correct. Patriots fans see Goodell for the boob he is. If Berman rules for the NFL 99% of other fans will feel he is vindicated and was right all along.

AndyJohnson said:

This really is not correct.
As Doty points out, he doesnt think Goodell knows there is a CBA, because his actions consistently violate it.
In Brady, the NFL is trying to cover those violations by saying he can do whatever he wants.
Doty is consistent with Berman in that Goodell's actions are not covered by the CBA. The NFL has 2 options, argue that Goodell is making good choices, or say the CBA say he can rule that he didn't like the look on Brady's face so he concludes guilt based upon the power vested in him to determine guilt, and therefore can make any punishment he wants if he decides that is conduct detrimental. Both are wrong, but one pretends to have legal basis.

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How can you tell me that isn't correct and then state exactly what I'm saying?

VrabelJr said:

How can you tell me that isn't correct and then state exactly what I'm saying?

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You said their argument is based upon the CBA which I inferred to mean they have an argument that the CBA protects them. I am saying that they are grasping at that because they have no justification for Goodells actions.
In other words I assumed you were saying the CBA favors the NFLs case, and I was saying it does not but they are using that defense because its all they got.
If we are saying the same thing, then my bad, I misunderstood you.

Deus Irae said:

If you've paid attention to Shmessy posting over the years, you know that he often posts like that as a way to troll. That's why I posted that it was one or the other.

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That's like saying Brady is guilty of Deflategate because the Patriots have a history of cheating

raduray said:

That's like saying Brady is guilty of Deflategate because the Patriots have a history of cheating

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Truer words were never spoke. The Commissioner is bowing to pressure from jealous owners who are sick and tired of having their asses kicked by Belichick and Brady.

However, I fully disagree with the previous poster's comment about Shmessy who is both a great mod and a solid poster.

I'm surprised that Florio hasn't posted anything on this yet. It's right up his alley and it's such low hanging fruit.

goheels22002 said:

It's not necessary that the Commissioner of a professional sports league be an attorney, but it sure seems like it helps. All of the commissioners of the other big three sports have law degrees from prestigious institutions that command the respect of judges.

The job is all about player, TV, stadium, merchandise and all sorts of contracts, and of course, labor law. Anti-trust law governs the leagues and tax law is also huge. As it becomes more clear, criminal law is also critical as these young, wealthy men act as if they are immune to real trouble (thank you Cris Carter!)

NBA Commissioner Adam Silver is a graduate of the University of Chicago Law School, MLB Commissioner Rob Manfred is a Harvard Law School graduate, former NFL Commissioner Paul Tagliabue is an NYU Law graduate, NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman is an NYU Law graduate, David Stern graduated from Columbia Law School.

Goodell? He's got a BS in economics from Washington & Jefferson College. Is it any wonder he's in so much legal hot water?

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Goodell is from a very rich and powerful family and the best they could do was get him into Washington & Jefferson College?!?!?!? That's pretty telling.