NFL files response to NFLPA case list

BradyFTW! said:

“Similarly, unlike here, each case the Union provided to support its claim that the Commissioner exceeded his authority involved extreme circumstances, such as where the remedy contradicted the CBA or the arbitrator’s own factual findings.”

Actually, sounds like that's exactly what happened here.

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In this case, the arbitrator did NOT disagree with the arbitrator's factual findings. He only disagreed with the commissioner's factual findings.

PatsFanSince74 said:

I'm not a Lawyer, but in reading the Submission, its wording suggests to me that they have decided to go "all in" on the unique nature of Goodell's authority under the CBA (thus the comparison to a "neutral arbiter").

That further suggests that someone (Goodell? Nash? Pash? Wells? All of the above?) may have panicked over the weekend and decided that they had to make this point very clearly, even at the risk of annoying a Federal Judge when they know full well that Federal Judges are very prickly about deadlines that they have set for their Court.

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Process rules are for peons. The NFL can do whatever it wants.

Daniel Wallach ‏@WALLACHLEGAL 2h2 hours agoFort Lauderdale, FL
The 19 arbitration reversals cited by Kessler are only the REPORTED cases; not every decision is published
Daniel Wallach ‏@WALLACHLEGAL 2h2 hours agoFort Lauderdale, FL
But those who've done the research still cite a confirmation rate of near 90% in federal court nationwide, a reality which cannot be ignored
Daniel Wallach ‏@WALLACHLEGAL 2h2 hours agoFort Lauderdale, FL
However, Brady case is an outlier due to non-neutral arbitrator (no stats on those) & process issues (notice & material evidence exclusion )

I tell you what, if this case hinged on the NFL submitting a list of previous arbitration cases captioned with their own legal ramification conclusions, the Brady case was DOA to begin with. Put another way, if this judge is going to stay with the thinking 'courts don't overturn arbitration rulings' then, again, the NFL's list of previous cases was unnecessary. Brady's case was all but DOA from the start.

IMHO (albeit legally ignorant) the judge is obviously going to rule for Brady in some form or fashion. How that exactly is done or is worded I don't know. Look, wasn't it crystal clear from legal circles this case had nothing to do with guilt, right?? This was a case about contract and procedure. Yet this judge has dove significantly into the question of guilt. How bad will this judge look if he takes the courts time to point out (and even mock) multiple points regarding the NFL's case of guilt? The judge did all this to them say "arbitration doesn't get overruled. Article 46 is all that matters. Case closed". If that is the case why waste the court's time with issues of guilt whatsoever? Other than procedural items why question the term "gate", use finger quotes for independent investigation, ask about the lack of specificity for the Indy game of which Brady is accused ofm(and point out why oily Wells left it out/vague), etc etc.

In terms of the precedent argument -- as someone else pointed out -- that the judge doesn't want to open the precedent flood gate, this case is very unlikely to be a major precedent setting event. The NFL has acted onfairly and badly. The judge knows this. The NFL argument is, basically, doesn't matter we can do what we want. So if this judge is so gutless to think 'doesn't matter how bad the employer acts/rigs the arbitration process, arbitration rulings are just not questioned!' then the only 'precedent' being set here is that employers have virtual carte blanche to do anything they want to the arbitration process. Bottom line: if the NFL wins and this case stands, it is a FAR more reaching ruling in that it makes it possible for those who hols the power to rig the process and do so with near impunity. To me that is very worrisome and I hope the judge recognizes this too (and makes a comment on it in his final ruling)....

Fencer said:

Process rules are for peons. The NFL can do whatever it wants.

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Next up is trying to suspend the judge on the grounds that this hearing is NFL business and therefore falls under article 46. After carefully reviewing the facts Rog has decided and arbitrated on the case and found that it is detrimental to the NFL. Therefore the judge is suspended indefinitely.

Seems to me the NFL would have had a better case if before the appeal when Goodell said he was open to new information and Brady supplied him with all emails and numbers he texted in that time frame (the phone was gone so this was the best he could do) and reduced it to a couple games they may have a leg to stand on. Thank God Roger thinks he's God and probably blew it by upping the charge and keeping it at 4 games.

Tony2046 said:

Do you think this was intentional? Can this be used later as part of their appeal if the Judge vacates?

"We were not able to present blah blah blah"

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If that's the idea, it won't work. The appeal will be in the same circuit where they violated the rule.

cmasspatsfan said:

Seems to me the NFL would have had a better case if before the appeal when Goodell said he was open to new information and Brady supplied him with all emails and numbers he texted in that time frame (the phone was gone so this was the best he could do) and reduced it to a couple games they may have a leg to stand on. Thank God Roger thinks he's God and probably blew it by upping the charge and keeping it at 4 games.

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I actually disagree. Keeping the suspension at four was the only chance the NFL had in court.

By reducing the suspension arbitrarily, what's to stop a judge from saying, "If this is so horrible, why did you reduce the suspension?"

Beyond that, Goodell couldn't reduce the suspension after all the money he's cost the owners already and still keep his job.

So what does all this Mumbo Jumbo actually mean?

TheFlyingWedge said:

So what does all this Mumbo Jumbo actually mean?

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It basically means "hey judge... you know all those cases that the NFLPA submitted to you which helps prove their point? Well here's why all those cases really don't prove their point but prove our point."

IANAL, but seems to me this is a letter, not a formal court filing. So maybe that's why they are getting around the "file your briefs by Friday" directive.

It can only mean one thing...

IT'S POLKA TIME!

TommyD4207 said:

If that's the idea, it won't work. The appeal will be in the same circuit where they violated the rule.

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I don't understand your point. Either Berman is right to hold them to the rule or he isn't. The appeal can find either way.

Rather, I'd ask what it even means to hold them to the rule. They sent him a three-page letter whose substance was just a few sentences, reminding him of facts that are matters of public record and which he should be taking into consideration anyway. There isn't much there for him to ignore.

Besides, the NFL just told him their best grounds for appeal. If his judgment takes those into account, his pro-Brady decision has a great chance of holding up.

AndyJohnson said:

NFL won this round by waiting until the deadline was up so the NFLPA cannot respond, and now none of those cases will be considered, and the NFL will win.

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In a related development, NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell today announced that teams will be given additional possessions after the final gun has sounded in games lost by teams for which he was rooting.

Independent attorney Ted Wells will issue a list of teams every Wednesday that Commissioner Goodell would like to see win each weekend. NFL attorney Jeffrey Pash will be given the opportunity to edit Mr. Wells' list of the Commissioner's favorite teams.

For his next act, Goodell will try to get 345 Park Ave to suceed from NY and form his own city-state

MuscleCarLover said:

Just got a new T-Shirt in, I added a sword of mine for dramatic effect:

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You do know that George R. R. Martin is a Jets fan right? so hopefully this pisses him off (not to mention, I had to drop the series after I confirmed what I thought his message was).

patfanken said:

However DESPITE the NFL's attempt at intimidation with this filing, there is (IMHO) more than enough SPECIFIC mistakes with the arbitration process itself for the Judge to vacate the suspension. In the end Goodell violated his trust according to the CBA to at least APPEAR to be a fair arbiter with specific documented acts and deeds.

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One would think that a fair and reasoned person would automatically recuse themselves, as arbitrator, fro ma decision they had handed down. One would say it couldn't be fair, automatically, by the same person doing both (even if following all the rules and guidelines). the fact that Goodell doesn't even have the presence of mind to make sure he went along with the process (as his own private thoughts can never be assessed properly, though he might be stupid enough to give them voice) which would have basically sealed his case up as a victory regardless of the decision.

He had 5-6 frickin' months to pull off that stunt and he and his team didn't have the mental acuity to do it. Does that speak more to their incompetence or the fact that they honestly do believe they have the authority to do whatever they want (seems to be the last part)?

My only hope is that they don't get smarter and learn from their mistakes for their next effort. That's why Kraft needs to get off his butt and put down this rabid <insert animal of your choice for Goodell>.

It

TheFlyingWedge said:

So what does all this Mumbo Jumbo actually mean?

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Means we were right about the Ideal Gas Law. Goodell being the cold bastard that he is, now having the heat placed on him. Just **** himself

RelocatedPatFan said:

For his next act, Goodell will try to get 345 Park Ave to suceed from NY and form his own city-state

You do know that George R. R. Martin is a Jets fan right? so hopefully this pisses him off (not to mention, I had to drop the series after I confirmed what I thought his message was).

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What do you think his message is?

Life is meaningless and full of pain? (if you are a Jets fan)

Game of Thrones is based on the War of the Roses

Stark = York
Lannister = Lancaster
Targaryen = Tudor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=234&v=VjO55pKuBo4

Danger Zone said:

What do you think his message is?

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If you play by the rules and think that being just and good is enough, then you will be destroyed.

The only people who win are those who set aside morality and only look after themselves.

as an FYI, book five of the series is what led me to dropping it all. I only watched the first season of the HBO series (which did seem excellent, but when I'm done with something I don't usually turn back).

RelocatedPatFan said:

If you play by the rules and think that being just and good is enough, then you will be destroyed.

The only people who win are those who set aside morality and only look after themselves.

as an FYI, book five of the series is what led me to dropping it all. I only watched the first season of the HBO series (which did seem excellent, but when I'm done with something I don't usually turn back).

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Were you worried you'd start to believe the "message" or something?

NFLs stance: We don't have to honor contracts and can make stuff up about players and the court system has no power over us
(Brady loses 1/4 of his salary in this case as well as a hit to his reputation)