NFL files response to NFLPA case list

patfanken · Aug 24, 2015

AndyJohnson said:
=
It is ludicrous to think that in any way the union believed that the commissioner would serve as both discipliner and arbitrator on the same issue. Him having both roles was never intended to overlap. No other commissioner ever considered that they could do that.

Andy that was a very eloquent and well thought out statement of the NFL's side of this case. But I think you miss the key point on Brady's side of the case. The PA doesn't have a problem with inherent conflict of interest with the fact the commissioner is both the judge AND the arbitor of appeal. Nor should it ever be expected that there is a real likelihood that the arbiter would ever overrule Judge in any world where reality exists.

But the beauty of the Brady case is that even though both parties agreed to this egregiously one sided relationship. They also agreed to certain procedures and policies that would at LEAST maintain the "appearance" of fairness and that the arbiter would abide by certain structural policies that would ensure them meeting that goal. Yet in their delusional egomania, the NFL and Goodell failed to meet even THAT exceedingly low bar of "fairness" And the specifics like not letting Brady cross Pash, have been well documented in many threads, so I won't waste your time.

I also know that while the Judge is not supposed to consider the irrationality of whether anything happened in the first place or the bad science and leaks that led to the suspension, I doubt he can ignore it either. He just can't use it when be justifies his ruling....but it doesn't stop him from mentioning it as an aside.

However DESPITE the NFL's attempt at intimidation with this filing, there is (IMHO) more than enough SPECIFIC mistakes with the arbitration process itself for the Judge to vacate the suspension. In the end Goodell violated his trust according to the CBA to at least APPEAR to be a fair arbiter with specific documented acts and deeds.

Now what the appeals court will decide on this is another story for another thread

BUSTAMOVE · Aug 24, 2015

For the idea that this was a slam dunk for the NFL. They seem a little panicky all of a sudden.

ctpatsfan77 · Aug 24, 2015

AndyJohnson said:
NFL won this round by waiting until the deadline was up so the NFLPA cannot respond, and now none of those cases will be considered, and the NFL will win.

Umm . . . this is after the filing deadline. If Berman accepts this filing at all (which is not a given), he likely would give the NFLPA a chance to respond as well.

Ring 6 · Aug 24, 2015

It was a joke responding to what will Lester Munson say

ctpatsfan77 said:
Umm . . . this is after the filing deadline. If Berman accepts this filing at all (which is not a given), he likely would give the NFLPA a chance to respond as well.

Bobsyouruncle · Aug 24, 2015

Change the word "fifth" to "46th" and you have the NFL's case.

Archeryaddict12 · Aug 24, 2015

It's almost like the NFL is daring the judge to rule against them.

MuscleCarLover · Aug 24, 2015

Just got a new T-Shirt in, I added a sword of mine for dramatic effect:

Canuck · Aug 24, 2015

Chiuba E. Obele said:
Daniel Wallach ‏@WALLACHLEGAL 3m3 minutes ago
NFL's belated filing (without properly seeking leave to respond) may be a violation of SDNY Local Rule prohibiting unauthorized filings

It looks like the NFL asked permission to respond and then responded in the same document. I take it the NFL wants Judge Berman to read the permission to respond request and be curious enough to read the rest of the document even if he would have otherwise denied it.

BradyFTW! · Aug 24, 2015

TommyD4207 said:
The only thing missing from that, is the part where the NFLPA asked both unofficially, and then formally, for Goodell to recuse himself, so he could be a witness, and he refused.

That's the other thing about Article 46. Just because Goodell CAN hear the appeal, doesn't mean he SHOULD.

And just because he's generally allowed to hear the appeal doesn't mean that's always appropriate to do so, or that it will always hold up in court if he acts in bad faith and is challenged in court.

It's like claiming that because you have a driver's license you have the right to go 100 on a 45.

VectorPrime · Aug 24, 2015

Canuck said:
It looks like the NFL asked permission to respond and then responded in the same document. I take it the NFL wants Judge Berman to read the permission to respond request and be curious enough to read the rest of the document even if he would have otherwise denied it.

I would imagine Berman has some paralegal read everything before he sees it so if this is against the rules then I doubt it ever gets to him.

Tony2046 · Aug 24, 2015

PatsFanSince74 said:
"Nash," "Pash," what's the difference? A sleaze bag by any other name is still a sleaze bag!

A couple of Ash-holes.

Tony2046 · Aug 24, 2015

BradyFTW! said:
Clown car never stops clowning.

Do you think this was intentional? Can this be used later as part of their appeal if the Judge vacates?

"We were not able to present blah blah blah"

BradyFTW! · Aug 24, 2015

patfanken said:
Andy that was a very eloquent and well thought out statement of the NFL's side of this case. But I think you miss the key point on Brady's side of the case. The PA doesn't have a problem with inherent conflict of interest with the fact the commissioner is both the judge AND the arbitor of appeal. Nor should it ever be expected that there is a real likelihood that the arbiter would ever overrule Judge in any world where reality exists.

But the beauty of the Brady case is that even though both parties agreed to this egregiously one sided relationship. They also agreed to certain procedures and policies that would at LEAST maintain the "appearance" of fairness and that the arbiter would abide by certain structural policies that would ensure them meeting that goal. Yet in their delusional egomania, the NFL and Goodell failed to meet even THAT exceedingly low bar of "fairness" And the specifics like not letting Brady cross Pash, have been well documented in many threads, so I won't waste your time.

I also know that while the Judge is not supposed to consider the irrationality of whether anything happened in the first place or the bad science and leaks that led to the suspension, I doubt he can ignore it either. He just can't use it when be justifies his ruling....but it doesn't stop him from mentioning it as an aside.

However DESPITE the NFL's attempt at intimidation with this filing, there is (IMHO) more than enough SPECIFIC mistakes with the arbitration process itself for the Judge to vacate the suspension. In the end Goodell violated his trust according to the CBA to at least APPEAR to be a fair arbiter with specific documented acts and deeds.

Now what the appeals court will decide on this is another story for another thread

To simplify: the CBA states that Goodell can serve as arbitrator. This doesn't mean that he can arbitrate in a manner that violates the Federal Arbitration Act.

SVN · Aug 24, 2015

I asked steph stradley about this. She has an interesting take

Hi Steph,
With the latest filings on 8/24, is the NFL in arguing that Goodell was not a neutral arbitrator(!), trying to give an out to Judge Berman in case he is fearing setting precedent in ruling for the NFL?
Steph_Stradley72p· 2 hours ago
The NFL is just trying to say why the cases Kessler provided aren't relevant and/or actually support their point of view. Normal lawyer stuff.

The "neutral" wording reflects the difference between normal arbitrations and NFL ones that allow the comissioner to be the arbiter. The NFL CBA is very different than a lot of the cases that the court sees, so it will be interesting to see how Judge Berman interprets it within the framework of existing law.

Seems like the unique nature of the CBA is being cited as the reason of pash's testimony being not allowed as an okay thing.

BradyFTW! · Aug 24, 2015

Tony2046 said:
Do you think this was intentional? Can this be used later as part of their appeal if the Judge vacates?

"We were not able to present blah blah blah"

Wouldn't surprise me. Since this filing doesn't change the facts of the case and shouldn't influence the ruling anyway, Wallach seems to think that Berman will accept it just to cut off that potential argument on appeal.

Hoodie · Aug 24, 2015

BradyFTW! said:
I assume he's fellating Goodell at this very moment, so any response from him will have to wait.

Ugh, this made me throw up in my mouth a little bit.

Bobsyouruncle · Aug 24, 2015

Goodell thinks the CBA says he can be biased since he's the arbitrator. No dummy, it says you can be arbitrator because you were supposed to be unbiased. You weren't.

ANGR89 · Aug 24, 2015

JMC00 said:
Can't wait to read lester munson's spin on this filing.

Oh I'm sure it's pure perfection, not a hole in it ..well written, the slam dunk, if there was any doubt the nfl was winning this well their won't be none now..Yada Yada yada.....did I cover it all? Lol

BradyFTW! · Aug 24, 2015

Bobsyouruncle said:
Goodell thinks the CBA says he can be biased since he's the arbitrator. No dummy, it says you can be arbitrator because you were supposed to be unbiased. You weren't.

While I don't think that argument legally holds water, it's a fantastic point. He's resorted to arguing that he's allowed to dole out punishment and arbitrate appeals in bad faith with unlimited bias and effectively no standard of evidence, since the only standard of evidence required is whether he agrees with himself that it was enough evidence for him to feel like ruling the way he did.

Funny thing. Article 8.3 of the NFL bylaws asserts the Commissioner's authority to serve as arbitrator. Two sections before that, Article 8.1 states this:

If the NFL wants to get into a pissing match over who violated Article VIII first (let's assume for the sake of argument that their claim that the NFLPA's trying to is correct), I think it's pretty clear that they did. The league violated Article 8.1 the moment they decided to keep employing Goodell after a federal judge ruled that he was a liar.

raduray · Aug 24, 2015

If Berman rules fo rhte

Canuck said:
It looks like the NFL asked permission to respond and then responded in the same document. I take it the NFL wants Judge Berman to read the permission to respond request and be curious enough to read the rest of the document even if he would have otherwise denied it.

The NFL filing starts as follows: "By reading this you agree to our petition....."

NFL files response to NFLPA case list

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