Things that would need to be believed in order for a ball tampering scheme to have taken place

RayClay · Aug 23, 2015

Didn't want to start a thread, but this guy has a hilarious take...

Joe Thomas does not think the punishment fits the crime in the "Deflategate" saga.

"I would equate what [Tom Brady] did to driving 66 [mph] in a 65 speed zone, and getting the death penalty," Thomas said Sunday after the Cleveland Browns' training camp practice.

The Pro Bowl left tackle said Brady does not even deserve to be fined, but added that what Goodell is doing is "brilliant."

"I'm not sure if he realizes what he's doing is brilliant, but what he's doing is brilliant because he's made the NFL relevant 365 [days] by having these outrageous, ridiculous witch hunts," Thomas said. "It's made the game more popular than ever and it's become so much more of an entertainment business and it's making so much money.

The Pro Bowl left tackle said Brady does not even deserve to be fined, but added that what Goodell is doing is "brilliant."

"I'm not sure if he realizes what he's doing is brilliant, but what he's doing is brilliant because he's made the NFL relevant 365 [days] by having these outrageous, ridiculous witch hunts," Thomas said. "It's made the game more popular than ever and it's become so much more of an entertainment business and it's making so much money.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/1...d-browns-backs-tom-brady-rips-nfl-witch-hunts

Joker · Aug 23, 2015

Concussion Protocol said:
Yes, but McNally could've taken 8 PSI out of the balls and it wouldn't make Brady guilty. Still should've been an emphatic "no"

that is preposterous, ridiculous , shallow minded hindsight. In fact, if I were involved with something like this where I was blindsided by a COMPLETE fabrication, I would almost CERTAINLY say "I THINK I'm innocent"...what is left unsaid is "I have no idea what the hell is going on here". You are demanding Brady speak in absolutes when the entire scenario is a shapeshifting, tangled web of lies. Ridiculous.

patsfan13 · Aug 23, 2015

Concussion Protocol said:
Yes, but McNally could've taken 8 PSI out of the balls and it wouldn't make Brady guilty. Still should've been an emphatic "no"

He was responding to a lie about 2 psi deflation, leaked by the league, his hesitancy is understandable.

RelocatedPatFan · Aug 23, 2015

Palm Beach Pats Fan said:
Watch the press conference or read the transcript! He emphatically denied any wrongdoing over and over and over again. Then, yes, when asked basically the same question for the umpteenth time, one that was loaded up with the lie of the footballs ALL being 2 psi under, he gave one wishy-washy answer.

Completely agree.

Also, when people recall the press conference, they see Brady at the podium. They didn't see how packed the media room was and they couldn't feel the tension that mob? was generating.

While that might have been the height of his discomfort, people think their opinions on why he was nervous was justified/about guilt. it could really have been that he literally walked into an angry mob as an innocent man. That would make me feel uncomfortable.

Ice_Ice_Brady · Aug 23, 2015

It's even more simple than all of this.

The average balls measured roughly 0.4 lbs of PSI below that average predicted by the Ideal Gas Law.

The only two explanations are as follows:

1. The Patriots did in fact remove exactly 0.4 lbs of PSI on average per ball prior to the start of the game.

2. Walt Anderson did in fact use the gauge he said he used, which accounts for almost EXACTLY that amount of pressure, as it was 0.38 lbs of PSI different from the other gauge.

Each explanation COULD be true, but they cannot both be true, and one is significantly more likely than the other. To think that explanation #2 exists but that someone would instead choose explanation #1 is a stretch of probability and rational thinking that is far, far beyond that of "the deflator" text, which appeared at first to be most likely more than a coincidence. To accept that the Patriots removed the exact same amount of air that would also be explained by the pressure gauge discrepancy must be way more improbable than any other theory or assertion brought forth on either side. That would be a huge coincidence that McNally was instructed to remove from each ball the exact same amount of PSI that just happens to be explained by the difference between the two gauges, and not only that, but that becomes more and more absurd when thinking about such a small amount of PSI in comparison to the original report of 2 lbs PSI (5x that much) and the type of microscopic advantage it might provide. Initially there was debate about whether a 2.0 lbs reduction of PSI is an advantage, and now we are talking about a fraction of that and also realizing that every QB gets a 1-2 lbs reduction of PSI any time the weather gets cold. The way this whole "story" is presented is that either it was the Patriots or the weather that deflated the balls, when in fact the weather most certainly, beyond any doubt, deflated the balls way down to a certain point, and we are now just looking at the small difference between the ideal gas law and the measured results.

The most juicy part of this whole point is, of course, that Brady is being suspended for four games for removing from the ball the same amount of PSI that was so insignificant the two pressure gauges were off by exactly that much in their measurements.

One other note: Brady likes deflated balls and is the best cold weather QB in NFL history. Now that make a lot of sense. The science explains that too.

Fencer · Aug 23, 2015

Concussion Protocol said:
Of course it's possible, but I'm not naive enough to think the guy implicated in a ball deflation scheme just happened to use that word to describe weight loss. It's insane, and unfortunately it could very well cost Brady 4 games. The text messages look bad to any unbiased observer. I refuse to suspend disbelief in order to buy into McNally's complete innocence.

You don't have to believe the bolded word. You can also believe there was a double meaning, both the one he emphasized and the ball deflation one. In that case, the ball deflation part proves little about anything.

robbomango · Aug 23, 2015

Concussion Protocol said:
McNally has no role in the preparation of footballs. If JJ was called "the deflator", that'd make

If he had no role with ball prep why would he be deflating balls in the bathroom? If people will make that leap, I think it's pretty safe to assume he helped out with legal ball prep.

Palm Beach Pats Fan · Aug 23, 2015

robbomango said:
If he had no role with ball prep why would he be deflating balls in the bathroom? If people will make that leap, I think it's pretty safe to assume he helped out with legal ball prep.

Because he only worked home game days, and ball prep work is done in the days leading up to the game. Sure, he could have helped with the final rubdown that morning, but I gather that most of the prep is done earlier

Marko · Aug 23, 2015

Ice_Ice_Brady said:
It's even more simple than all of this.

The average balls measured roughly 0.4 lbs of PSI below that average predicted by the Ideal Gas Law.

The only two explanations are as follows:

1. The Patriots did in fact remove exactly 0.4 lbs of PSI on average per ball prior to the start of the game.

2. Walt Anderson did in fact use the gauge he said he used, which accounts for almost EXACTLY that amount of pressure, as it was 0.38 lbs of PSI different from the other gauge.

Each explanation COULD be true, but they cannot both be true, and one is significantly more likely than the other. To think that explanation #2 exists but that someone would instead choose explanation #1 is a stretch of probability and rational thinking that is far, far beyond that of "the deflator" text, which appeared at first to be most likely more than a coincidence. To accept that the Patriots removed the exact same amount of air that would also be explained by the pressure gauge discrepancy must be way more improbable than any other theory or assertion brought forth on either side. That would be a huge coincidence that McNally was instructed to remove from each ball the exact same amount of PSI that just happens to be explained by the difference between the two gauges, and not only that, but that becomes more and more absurd when thinking about such a small amount of PSI in comparison to the original report of 2 lbs PSI (5x that much) and the type of microscopic advantage it might provide. Initially there was debate about whether a 2.0 lbs reduction of PSI is an advantage, and now we are talking about a fraction of that and also realizing that every QB gets a 1-2 lbs reduction of PSI any time the weather gets cold. The way this whole "story" is presented is that either it was the Patriots or the weather that deflated the balls, when in fact the weather most certainly, beyond any doubt, deflated the balls way down to a certain point, and we are now just looking at the small difference between the ideal gas law and the measured results.

The most juicy part of this whole point is, of course, that Brady is being suspended for four games for removing from the ball the same amount of PSI that was so insignificant the two pressure gauges were off by exactly that much in their measurements.

One other note: Brady likes deflated balls and is the best cold weather QB in NFL history. Now that make a lot of sense. The science explains that too.

Can I give this 100 agrees? Really well written! I've been saying this as well, Wells really wants us to believe that the amount of air McNally released in the bathroom just happens to be the same amount that the gauge differed? Boy McNally is sly!

old 55 · Aug 24, 2015

I think the most important problem with the assumption that the bathroom trip (reported to be 90-100 seconds) was enough time to adjust 12 balls to the desired pressure is that the refs couldn't measure all of the Pats balls at halftime and still have time to measure the Colts balls. If 12 balls could be adjusted in 90-100 seconds, the halftime should have been plenty of time to measure both teams balls. So, if the bathroom trip was just about going to the bathroom, since the time it would take to accurately deflate the balls to a desired level would require more time, there isn't a reason to believe ball manipulation happened at all. If you conclude 90-100 seconds is adequate to adjust the balls, then you'd have to say that the refs should have had plenty of time to measure both teams balls. The fact that they measured the Pats balls and not the Colts balls would indicate that this was a predetermined conclusion and not an attempt to protect the integrity of the game.

Marko · Aug 24, 2015

old 55 said:
I think the most important problem with the assumption that the bathroom trip (reported to be 90-100 seconds) was enough time to adjust 12 balls to the desired pressure is that the refs couldn't measure all of the Pats balls at halftime and still have time to measure the Colts balls. If 12 balls could be adjusted in 90-100 seconds, the halftime should have been plenty of time to measure both teams balls. So, if the bathroom trip was just about going to the bathroom, since the time it would take to accurately deflate the balls to a desired level would require more time, there isn't a reason to believe ball manipulation happened at all. If you conclude 90-100 seconds is adequate to adjust the balls, then you'd have to say that the refs should have had plenty of time to measure both teams balls. The fact that they measured the Pats balls and not the Colts balls would indicate that this was a predetermined conclusion and not an attempt to protect the integrity of the game.

Yes but remember they had to get Vincent, Kensil and the rest of the lynch mob involved, so there was probably a lot of high fiving and texts to the media happening as well.

robbomango · Aug 24, 2015

Palm Beach Pats Fan said:
Because he only worked home game days, and ball prep work is done in the days leading up to the game. Sure, he could have helped with the final rubdown that morning, but I gather that most of the prep is done earlier

I'm just borrowing from what I heard Chatham say on EEi a while ago, that Mcnally may have had more responsibility than just locker room attendant duties such as helping JJ with ball prep, who knows. You point is well taken though.

Hercules Rockefeller · Aug 24, 2015

Concussion Protocol said:
So you cite "Occam's Razor" and yet believe "The Deflator" was a weight loss-related nickname?

Time for a new razor

Packers game (road game, McNally at home).

Revis gets burned by Jordy Nelson for a long touchdown right before the half. This irritates Jastrzemski, and he is spotted on TV by his friend McNally visibly irritated about the play right in front of Revis, who is on the bench and likely cold whilst Jasz rocks a large winter coat.

McNally texts Jasz with instructions to "deflate and give him that jacket." The absolutely unargued context is that deflate meant relax/calm down.

Explain now please Concussion Protocol. How can this text conversation, which is accepted as fact by the NFL, jive with the notion that it's absurd to think DEFLATE! could be used in any other context.

This conversation alone blows out of the water any argument about texts and deflator names, unless you choose to think like a Dorito Dink.

Things that would need to be believed in order for a ball tampering scheme to have taken place

RayClay

Hall of Fame Poster

Joker

PatsFans.com Supporter

patsfan13

Hall of Fame Poster

RelocatedPatFan

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

Ice_Ice_Brady

I heard 10,000 whispering and nobody listening

Fencer

Pro Bowl Player

robbomango

In the Starting Line-Up

Palm Beach Pats Fan

Pro Bowl Player

Marko

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

old 55

PatsFans.com Supporter

Marko

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

robbomango

In the Starting Line-Up

Hercules Rockefeller

2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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