PRESEASON GAME DAY THREAD (8/22): Patriots vs. Saints

patsinthesnow said:

A morning thought:
As long as Roberts isn't injured badly (I imagine he would have been put on IR already if he was), he looks like a top 3 CB, and that's not good. His coverage against the GB 1s and TC play makes him better than Ryan already.

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The only way to get him on IR now (before the cutdown to 65 on September 1) is "waive-injured" him. Someone could claim him and stash him on their own IR after the 65 man cuts. Just like we did with Tyler Gaffney.

I was working last night and I'm watching the replay right now on NFLN and is it just me or did they go from 15-0 in the 2nd to the start of the 3rd?

EDIT-I rewinded the game on my PVR and sure enough, they did...and these Saints announcers make me miss Cirqui and Cross...

DOUBLE EDIT-Sweet jebus, one of the Saints guys called Krause, #16, Amendola...um...

Regardless who was on the O-line...Blount looks slow...IMO

Pro Football Focus ‏@PFF 3m3 minutes ago
On passes thrown within 10 yards of the line of scrimmage, Garoppolo went 20/20 for 149 yards against the Saints.

manxman2601 said:

Way to go Josh Kline.

http://gfycat.com/PiercingRipeAsiaticwildass

Via Doug Kyed.

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I noticed him on that play, too, and that's why I know that he would make a much, much more viable
backup Centre than Andrews, who belongs on the PS in order to see if he can gain & maintain the weight
required of a legitimate NFL OLman.

Zuma said:

Regardless who was on the O-line...Blount looks slow...IMO

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Yeah, I forget if I mentioned it in this thread or another but, outside of 2 or 3 plays he was in on, he lookedlike he had cinderblocks on his feet. He did not look too quick at all.

To be fair though, it's hard to build running momentum when there's a defender in your face as soon as
you are given the hand-off. The OL was terrible run-blocking last night for everybody.

Michael Giardi ‏@MikeGiardi 39m39 minutes ago
Jimmy Garoppolo averaged 2.04 seconds per throw. Just for comparison sake, Brady averaged 2.39 per pass last season, 3rd best in the NFL

Michael Giardi ‏@MikeGiardi 46m46 minutes ago
Garoppolo was 28-of-33 last night. Here are all his throws, with a stopwatch, including penalties

All in all it was a good week and game for both teams.
rookies in the middle of the New England offensive line, with Shaq Mason, David Andrews and Tre Jackson between Solder and Vollmer on the OL improved as the game went on. I can see now why Solder had a hard time sometimes. Hard to play off rooks.

McCourty didnt do awful at right corner opposite of Malcolm Butler, and I think this is just something BB wanted to try out for emergencies or etc just be a way for BB to get a better look at some of his young corners maybe.
Offence was vanilla, so not to worried about TB. They has some rook WR's in. Wouldnt put past BB if he told SP there plays, lol to see how they would do.

Think Gray played the well, Lewis had a beautiful instintive run in the middle, and white had a nice cut back, but I didnt see that "1/10 second sight" good RB's have, but they all played pretty well. Blount didnt do well, but he had rooks at OL and that hard to run with a Rook OL unless your Berry Sanders, and Blount is a bruiser back so need that support.

DL played ok even in the first, but Brees was in a quick passing zone, and its hard to get a hit when he does that. BB was playing pretty vanilla.

Harper was fantastic, reminds me of a young lance moore with the clean routes and never stops playing.
Gibson had a few good catches.
Garoppolo did about as good as you can do, proud of that guy. He might need to be more consistant game to game, but that should come.

All in all I think Pats have improved and BB knows more.

Saints OL did a better job creating lanes for Brees to pass, and for the RB's to get inside runs. I think the screan fake has made a serious improvement.
Brees was fantastic, was decisive, and threw the long balls well. Luke was better than I wanted him to be, lol, and the other 2 back up QB's struggled a bit.

Proud of Ingram, not listening to the bust talk and to keep trying, hes really worked hard. Did well.
Brandon Colman did well getting separation, and I dont fault him for the droped enzone pass, it was good coverage by McCortney, and he needs to pull the ball in faster, but that comes.
Cooks did fantastic, he might be something, that kid is so fast. Reminds me of Dessean Jackson.
Josh Hill was very good blocking and getting a pass.
Not impressed with Colstons separation lately, but he works hard. Your guy Ben Watson always does a bang up job.

I think we improved in our timing

Very beneficial week and game for both teams, think we both took a step forward. Watching SF Vs Cowboys. blaah they both look boring.

manxman2601 said:

I've always thought Wendell will start at LG. I love Mason but starting two rookies is way too risky. Mind you, Wendell/Kline aren't a particularly significant mediation of that risk. Evan Mathis please.

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A couple of question to ponder re: Wendell.

1) Will he stay on PUP? I suppose we'll have a much clearer picture in the next 7-10 days.

2) Will he play his more natural spot at RG, rather than left? I don't know why so many are automatically assuming that rookie Tre Jackson has somehow played well enough to justify bumping Wendell over to a position that he's fairly unfamiliar with? I suppose it's the "lesser of two evils" theory.

Some even have the two rookies playing so well that they bump veterans Wendell and Kline off the starting roster entirely, and that seems odd to me. While Wendell will not be in the same category as Evan Mathis, he contributed well enough to allow our OL to thrive last year (post game #4), having only given up around 20 sacks (not including the meaningless week 17 stats where Brady was pulled early).

Kline played well enough in the postseason game and spot duty, and is a vet. It is possible that he has the upper hand on the rookies just as well.

manxman2601 said:

@DougKyedNESN 55m55 minutes ago
No one is still up, but just went through tonight's game again. Josh Kline and Ryan Groy were solid. Fleming and Mason had some issues.

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Add our concerns for Cannon to the fact that Fleming "had some issues" and now we're potentially dealing with the outside tackle group as well, should someone go down, which will certainly happen in some capacity this year.

Sometimes it seems like the OL will be just fine, and other times it feels like we really do need that one last veteran presence to help move the rookies along in the next 1-2 years. They all have the capacity to grow into a fine young offensive line group, but they may be a far way off at the moment.

supafly said:

A couple of question to ponder re: Wendell.

1) Will he stay on PUP? I suppose we'll have a much clearer picture in the next 7-10 days.

2) Will he play his more natural spot at RG, rather than left? I don't know why so many are automatically assuming that rookie Tre Jackson has somehow played well enough to justify bumping Wendell over to a position that he's fairly unfamiliar with? I suppose it's the "lesser of two evils" theory.

Some even have the two rookies playing so well that they bump veterans Wendell and Kline off the starting roster entirely, and that seems odd to me. While Wendell will not be in the same category as Evan Mathis, he contributed well enough to allow our OL to thrive last year (post game #4), having only given up around 20 sacks (not including the meaningless week 17 stats where Brady was pulled early).

Kline played well enough in the postseason game and spot duty, and is a vet. It is possible that he has the upper hand on the rookies just as well.

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I'm not going to try and predict what BB will do but I would like to see at least one rookie get an early run at starting. If we don't start them both now, then we're still in a position of effectively giving two rookies the start next season so blood one this year and blood the other next year. I think Tre Jackson gets the edge because a) he was a college RG anyway whereas Shaq is switching to LG and B) Jackson had more experience in an NFL type system. I believe Shaw will be the better OL long-term but I'm happy for them to be patient with him.

manxman2601 said:

I'm not going to try and predict what BB will do but I would like to see at least one rookie get an early run at starting. If we don't start them both now, then we're still in a position of effectively giving two rookies the start next season so blood one this year and blood the other next year. I think Tre Jackson gets the edge because a) he was a college RG anyway whereas Shaq is switching to LG and B) Jackson had more experience in an NFL type system. I believe Shaw will be the better OL long-term but I'm happy for them to be patient with him.

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Agreed. I suppose it will depend on how hurt Wendell is. For some reason I'm going to be optimistic and assume that he'll be starting in week one come 9-10-15. If that's the case, it very well may be Solder, Wendell, Stork, Jackson, and Vollmer.

supafly said:

Agreed. I suppose it will depend on how hurt Wendell is. For some reason I'm going to be optimistic and assume that he'll be starting in week one come 9-10-15. If that's the case, it very well may be Solder, Wendell, Stork, Jackson, and Vollmer.

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Because we don't get any real info about injuries, I tend to default to "they'll be ready for week one" unless told otherwise.

supafly said:

A couple of question to ponder re: Wendell.
2) Will he play his more natural spot at RG, rather than left? I don't know why so many are automatically assuming that rookie Tre Jackson has somehow played well enough to justify bumping Wendell over to a position that he's fairly unfamiliar with? I suppose it's the "lesser of two evils" theory.
.

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I've honestly always questioned this.

I may be wrong, but I do know that Wendell played RG at a decent level last season.

Shaq Mason is a RG.

Was Tre Jackson not a LG? I swear he was an LG. I was always confused by swapping him and Mason and thus, in a sense, forcing Wendell to LG which I don't believe he's played much, and having all 3 players outside of natural positions.

strngplyr said:

I've honestly always questioned this.

I may be wrong, but I do know that Wendell played RG at a decent level last season.

Shaq Mason is a RG.

Was Tre Jackson not a LG? I swear he was an LG. I was always confused by swapping him and Mason and thus, in a sense, forcing Wendell to LG which I don't believe he's played much, and having all 3 players outside of natural positions.

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We'd have to defer to draft guru @manxman2601 for this one, as I honestly don't have enough knowledge to have an informed comment. I just didn't follow the pre-scouting process and draft as closely this year.

I know this is going to really be considered "out there," but I'm starting to wonder if Kline won't be in the mix for LG duties at times, considering the fact that we just don't have much to choose from? If you look at it that way, then Wendell could very well stay at RG (his more natural position, as you state).

Of course, if Jackson were to start in week #1, that would likely mean that there would be a battle of the following at LG:

1) Wendell at an unnatural position
2) Kline
3) Rookie Shaq Mason

strngplyr said:

I've honestly always questioned this.

I may be wrong, but I do know that Wendell played RG at a decent level last season.

Shaq Mason is a RG.

Was Tre Jackson not a LG? I swear he was an LG. I was always confused by swapping him and Mason and thus, in a sense, forcing Wendell to LG which I don't believe he's played much, and having all 3 players outside of natural positions.

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Josue Matias was FSU's LG last year - he was even less athletic than Jackson and went undrafted in the end.

supafly said:

We'd have to defer to draft guru @manxman2601 for this one, as I honestly don't have enough knowledge to have an informed comment. I just didn't follow the pre-scouting process and draft as closely this year.

I know this is going to really be considered "out there," but I'm starting to wonder if Kline won't be in the mix for LG duties at times, considering the fact that we just don't have much to choose from? If you look at it that way, then Wendell could very well stay at RG (his more natural position, as you state).

Of course, if Jackson were to start in week #1, that would likely mean that there would be a battle of the following at LG:

1) Wendell at an unnatural position
2) Kline
3) Rookie Shaq Mason

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You know, for all the crap we give Kline/Devey duo, Kline was always the far superior player. I remember the 2013 game against the Dolphins where Solder was out and Mankins played LT, Kline LG, Kline looked like one of the best OL on the roster. I never understood how he fell apart so dramatically after that game.

manxman2601 said:

Josue Matias was FSU's LG last year - he was even less athletic than Jackson and went undrafted in the end.

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Then I'll defer to you. I just through Jackson was the LG, not RG.

Despite that, I still wish we had played Jackson at LG and Mason/Wendell/Kline at RG throughout TC/Preseason.

strngplyr said:

Then I'll defer to you. I just through Jackson was the LG, not RG.

Despite that, I still wish we had played Jackson at LG and Mason/Wendell/Kline at RG throughout TC/Preseason.

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You tend to put your more athletic guys at LG and both Mason and Wendell are more athletic than Jackson. I presume that's probably why. I'd also say that although he played RG at Georgia Tech, Mason plays like a LG in the way he moves to the second level and beyond. He's an outstanding blocker in space.