NFL vs. Brady Federal Court Hearing (8/19) LIVE UPDATES AND TWEETS

The proper response to the Colts Email would have been to tell them to call a waaaaaambulance, and quit crying because they can't win. The end.

My bottom line question is WHY ? Why is this being done in the first place ? I believe that the Pats and Tom Brady are innocent of any wrongdoing in this case. It was said in the summary of the Wells report, and in court in front of Berman by an NFL lawyer, that the NFL has no concrete proof any of the Patriots ordering anyone to deflate footballs. You can't erase that, it's in black and white. Even if Brady is forced to serve 4 games, I will always go back to that and shove it in the hater's faces.

So why is the NFL doing this ? Why were the penalties so harsh ? Why does Nash admit in court the NFL wanted to penalize Brady 4 games for "not cooperating" when the precedence for doing so is a 50k fine (Favre) ? Why is what Minnesota and Carolina did in game (heating footballs thereby manipulation of the footballs) considered a non penalizing event when it was caught on television in plain sight of everyone ? If the Pat's footballs were below league approval level, why weren't they afforded the same courtesy as the Vikings/Panthers (a warning to stop) ? Why is the NFL allowing false football readings to stay in the public eye thus hurting the Pats in the media ?

I have so many questions that will never get answered. You have to say, why are they doing this to the Patriots ? Especially since Kraft backed up Goodell just last year during the Rice incident, they were apparently friends even after the overreaction of Spygate. What does the NFL have to gain by attacking the best franchise in the NFL ? You know this has to hurt the brand, as well as it possibly effects the Pat's chances of signing big time free agents.

The Brandon Five said:

I don't ordinarily go this route either, but the calls in that Divisional Game were ridiculously lopsided. The no-catch call on Amendola's brilliant play followed by a "catch" call on a similar play for the Ravens. Brady getting poked in the eye with no call. Blatant defensive holds not called. Revis called for PI when there was clear OPI by Smith. Just brutal.

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Perhaps you don't remember but the referees were LOCKED OUT three years ago during the regular season.

Now you think they are Goodell's hit men.

shmessy said:

Perhaps you don't remember but the referees were LOCKED OUT three years ago during the regular season.

Now you think they are Goodell's hit men.

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No, I am just all-around paranoid after the last seven months.

scott99 said:

My bottom line question is WHY ? Why is this being done in the first place ? I believe that the Pats and Tom Brady are innocent of any wrongdoing in this case. It was said in the summary of the Wells report, and in court in front of Berman by an NFL lawyer, that the NFL has no concrete proof any of the Patriots ordering anyone to deflate footballs. You can't erase that, it's in black and white. Even if Brady is forced to serve 4 games, I will always go back to that and shove it in the hater's faces.

So why is the NFL doing this ? Why were the penalties so harsh ? Why does Nash admit in court the NFL wanted to penalize Brady 4 games for "not cooperating" when the precedence for doing so is a 50k fine (Favre) ? Why is what Minnesota and Carolina did in game (heating footballs thereby manipulation of the footballs) considered a non penalizing event when it was caught on television in plain sight of everyone ? If the Pat's footballs were below league approval level, why weren't they afforded the same courtesy as the Vikings/Panthers (a warning to stop) ? Why is the NFL allowing false football readings to stay in the public eye thus hurting the Pats in the media ?

I have so many questions that will never get answered. You have to say, why are they doing this to the Patriots ? Especially since Kraft backed up Goodell just last year during the Rice incident, they were apparently friends even after the overreaction of Spygate. What does the NFL have to gain by attacking the best franchise in the NFL ? You know this has to hurt the brand, as well as it possibly effects the Pat's chances of signing big time free agents.

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I think it is very simple.
Goodell felt that he needed the PR of being the protector of integrity to overcome the bad press he was receiving.
Remember Goodell was rifled in the media for being soft on a guy who beat the crap out of his girlfriend.
He wants to be known as Mr Morals who protects all that is good. Being the prosecutor of a cheater gets him back some of that.
It worked to perfection with testicle-challenged Kraft, but Brady didn't roll over and it was too late, he was already in hip deep, and the hiding, covering and maneuvering began.

scott99 said:

So why is the NFL doing this ? Why were the penalties so harsh ? Why does Nash admit in court the NFL wanted to penalize Brady 4 games for "not cooperating" when the precedence for doing so is a 50k fine (Favre) ? Why is what Minnesota and Carolina did in game (heating footballs thereby manipulation of the footballs) considered a non penalizing event when it was caught on television in plain sight of everyone ? If the Pat's footballs were below league approval level, why weren't they afforded the same courtesy as the Vikings/Panthers (a warning to stop) ? Why is the NFL allowing false football readings to stay in the public eye thus hurting the Pats in the media....

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Great questions.

My personal theories that are minimally supported by any evidence is based on Ken's thoughts -- the Patriots are the outlier in the League; their worst year 2002-03 is better than some team's best years from 2001 to present, and they are one of the top 4 teams more often than not, and are in the Super Bowl (ie a Top 2 team 40% of the time). The League is designed for parity (a good draft or two will produce a temporary disparity of very cheap high end talent, and then they get paid by hollowing out depth or leaving see Seattle this year for instance) and the Patriots have defied that system.

Why does this not apply to the Patriots? The New England based answer is simple ---- the Patriots have enjoyed the synergy of the GOAT QB and GOAT coach working together for 15 years in stable environment with a supportive owner and great structure to build great teams. That answer is not flattering to the rest of the league, so it has to be something else. It just has to be skirting the edge of the rulebook on everything (see Ravens and the offensive formations --- what teams come back from not one but two 14 point deficits in a play-off game with screwy tackle eligible formations...), so why not suspect the balls are being futzed with.

And once the idiots on Park Avenue decide to engage in a sting to royally **** the Patriots, they don't do their homework (literally) and like my daughter when she is caught in a bad idea, they keep on expanding the problem instead of cutting their losses. They got sloppy but decided to disregard their sloppiness in the pursuit of the noble objective of cutting the Patriots down to size.

And at some point (probably after Wells concluded Belicheck had nothing to do with anything), the League Office/owners figured that this would be a good club against the NFLPA (although picking Brady -- someone who is the most competitive guy in a league full of competetive people who hate losing AND has a quarter billion dollar plus war chest-- may not have been a wise idea) through either a settlement which concedes back to the NFL some of the ground they had lost in earlier disciplinary clusters or through an actual award that is upheld (10% chance) in court was a worthwhile effort.

smh...Judge Berman used the word VACATED to the NFL and they still won't budge. Who do these people think they are?

VectorPrime said:

I really doubt the NLFPA will be able to get another case in front of Berman, he seems really pissed off that the NFL brought this one in front of him. He's pissed that his time is being wasted. Thankfully its working out amazingly for Brady but this seems like a one time shot.

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He's pissed that his time is being wasted because he knows that this should never have reached this level. It's only through the ineptitude of the Commissioner's office that it has reached this point.

Does anyone know how long an appeal takes in the 2nd circuit? My fear is that brady wins and then the NFL appeals and the 2nd circuit reverses right before the playoffs. I know berman said cases can take a couple years on appeal but I think I heard schefter say it might be expedited. Does anyone know how long it will take and if the court would be willing to expedite this particular case because of the attention it has gotten nationally

What is this MLB vs Garvey which seems to the flavor of the news today saying it is the reason NFL will win ?

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-...ppear-to-be-going-well-for-tom-brady-in-court

Some caution reading too much into how Berman has more aggressively questioned the NFL in the last two settlement hearings. ESPN legal analyst Roger Cossack, for example, said Berman is pushing for a settlement and might believe the league has to be prodded more to move toward that; hence the aggressive questioning. Cossack noted the MLB v. Steve Garvey case, and how a "federal judge can not vacate arbitration awards despite allegations that the awards rest on factual errors", in pointing out why the NFL probably feels so strongly about its position

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Stephanie Stradley ‏@StephStradley 10m10 minutes ago
Always get your legal advice from radio dudez. MT @2big_2fail Boston radio personalities are claiming NFL brief Garvey gives Brady no chance

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shmessy said:

Perhaps you don't remember but the referees were LOCKED OUT three years ago during the regular season.

Now you think they are Goodell's hit men.

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Shmessy - Money talks and BS walks.. There are referees who are clearly favored by Goodell. There was the one referee not right before the referee lockout that should have been fire for the number of screw-ups (8) and magically, right before the start of the pre-season, they all get washed away and the guy ends up being the SB Ref???

SVN said:

What is this MLB vs Garvey which seems to the flavor of the news today saying it is the reason NFL will win ?

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-...ppear-to-be-going-well-for-tom-brady-in-court

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Only idiots or people with an anti-Pats agenda are the ones referencing the Garvey case.



@shmessy said it best

shmessy said:

Here's where that and Felger's position is dead wrong regarding Garvey.

The Garvey case was about ******** factual errors in a case where the MLB FOLLOWED the accepted procedures of arbitration.

THIS case is about ******** factual errors where the NFL completely DID NOT follow the accepted procedures of arbitration.

It is for this very reason (and the only reason for Berman in his narrow mandate here) that Brady not being able to make Pash testify, Pash editing the "independent" Wells report, Lorin Reissner of Wells' firm cross examining Brady during the arbitration appeal on behalf of the NFL, etc. etc. etc. that Berman can most definitely nail the NFL in his decision.

It has nothing to do with the manufactured ******** "facts" or the fact that the CBA gave them this ridiculous self arbitration right.. It has everything to do with the NFL not even following the ridiculous rights of self arbitration that the CBA granted them.

It's akin to a a silver spooned Woody Johnson or Jim Irsay pissing away the inherited gift they have been given

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They are also conveniently turning a blind eye to Berman saying "I believe some arbitration awards have been vacated because a witness was not allowed to be called without explanation."

SVN said:

What is this MLB vs Garvey which seems to the flavor of the news today saying it is the reason NFL will win ?

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-...ppear-to-be-going-well-for-tom-brady-in-court

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1st thing I noticed about this case is that its a 9th circuit case. No binding precedent to the 2nd circuit.

2nd, this case was about fact-finding anyway not biased arbitration. People have to remember that the NFLPA has a multifaceted argument. There are some areas which the NFL holds debatable advantages as it pertains to this case. Fact finding is one and Arbitrators are supposed to give a lot of difference to the arbitrator.

Im not sure how much difference is given under 2nd circuit case law precedent but Its not like Goodell is allowed to literally make up facts and the court cant question him on it. As one of the twitter lawyers said, there comes a point where a lack of evidence becomes fundamentally unfair.

At this point, the only question I want answered is whether or not Kraft will actually do anything.

If not, his little apology was just a PR stunt to not get booed during TC....

TriplecHamp said:

Im not sure how much difference is given under 2nd circuit case law precedent but Its not like Goodell is allowed to literally make up facts and the court cant question him on it. As one of the twitter lawyers said, there comes a point where a lack of evidence becomes fundamentally unfair.

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Well we all know that Goodell's instincts received the highest score on the MGC scale and this is an undisputed fact. Thus, he just knows things the rest of us mortals can't comprehend.

MGC is Momma Goodell Certified

Chiuba E. Obele said:

smh...Judge Berman used the word VACATED to the NFL and they still won't budge. Who do these people think they are?

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NFL front office is full of Jets fans. They don't know what Vacate means.

FrodoBagginz said:

NFL front office is full of Jets fans. They don't know what Vacate means.

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They probably said no thanks, we'll just have a Staycate.

Todd Bradley said:

At this point, the only question I want answered is whether or not Kraft will actually do anything.

If not, his little apology was just a PR stunt to not get booed during TC....

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ATM, there's not very much Kraft can do (publicly), at least with respect to these proceedings.

TriplecHamp said:

1st thing I noticed about this case is that its a 9th circuit case. No binding precedent to the 2nd circuit.

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Actually, it went all the way to SCOTUS (SCOTUS ruled against Garvey). So it absolutely is binding precedent to 2nd Circuit.

Gabe Feldman ‏@SportsLawGuy Aug 19
Choice for J Berman- rule quickly after 8/31 to give parties more time before reg season,or wait until 9/4 to give max time for settlement
Gabe Feldman ‏@SportsLawGuy 13h13 hours ago
This is what fed judge said re Bounty suspensions: "If I can find a way to legally do it, I will rule in Vilma's favor." Judge never ruled.