Seattle OC on The Play

Play call was fine, if not optimal

One important point that often gets overlooked in discussions: the problem was not that Seattle chose to pass, but rather that they chose that pass.

KontradictioN said:

I'm not being condescending at all. Or at least I'm not trying to be. So my apologies if that's how it came off. That people don't see how this was one of the worst playcalls of all time is mind boggling. And I'm aware that the Patriots were in goal line. Seattle knew that too. Seattle ran with success on goal line defenses all year long and has been doing that since Lynch came to them. Further, people overestimate that package. Vince was very good last year but he clearly wasn't the Vince of old...

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I disagree, a handoff to Lynch against that front would not have worked, and it only worked the prior play because of the personnel NE had on the field. I was hoping they'd run when I saw the DL's all lined up there, cause it would have been a loss. Obviously the slant was not the right call, but a handoff to Lynch would have failed too.

Chiuba E. Obele said:

We can't expect him to have fought for the ball, because he didn't see Malcolm coming, and the speed of Malcolm beating him to the ball knocked him on his ass

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No, it doesn't matter where Malcolm is or whether he sees him. It's still a lazy route on a bang-bang play. Watch it again.

TomPatriot said:

No, it doesn't matter where Malcolm is or whether he sees him. It's still a lazy route on a bang-bang play. Watch it again.

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Yeah, I reviewed the play. I agree, it might've been Lockette's fault that he didn't see Butler coming. But I put most of the blame on Wilson, Bevel, and Carroll.

turkeyneck said:

Everyone sees well after the play. Only Belichick saw well before the play.

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Wonder what he meant by "something just didn't look right"

vyrago said:

Wonder what he meant by "something just didn't look right"

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Maybe he means he could tell they weren't going to run on second down there?

vyrago said:

Wonder what he meant by "something just didn't look right"

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Funny how everything came together. Just as everything went wrong for us at the end of Super Bowl 42, everything seem to go right in Super Bowl 49.

The Brandon Five said:

In Belichick's Breakdown after the game (on the "3 Games" DVD), Zo pointed out that the Pats had stuffed Lynch on a 3rd and 1 earlier. The Hawks needed to stop the clock. They had to pass on one of the downs.

That was the first pass from the 1 yard line that got intercepted the entire 2014 season in the NFL.

Ironically, the Kearse catch might be what cost them the game. Because they were too busy celebrating they burned the timeout that they needed to avoid having to throw the ball.

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I agree completely! And thats why the Patriots practice situational football, the celebrating would not have happened like that to cause them to cause the team to burn a potential game winning TO. BB would never have let that happen.

If Lockette reached out to make a hands catch rather than not reaching out, palms up, to make a near-the-body catch,

Malcolm wouldn't have had time, IMO, to pick it off.

Chiuba E. Obele said:

Funny how everything came together. Just as everything went wrong for us at the end of Super Bowl 42, everything seem to go right in Super Bowl 49.

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Not really, just the last play.
The fluky play that got them down there was SB 42 ish.

AndyJohnson said:

Not really, just the last play.
The fluky play that got them down there was SB 42 ish.

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Right. I just hope we never play in Glendale again Too many weird, fluky things have happened there lol

KontradictioN said:

I'm not being condescending at all. Or at least I'm not trying to be. So my apologies if that's how it came off. That people don't see how this was one of the worst playcalls of all time is mind boggling. And I'm aware that the Patriots were in goal line. Seattle knew that too. Seattle ran with success on goal line defenses all year long and has been doing that since Lynch came to them. Further, people overestimate that package. Vince was very good last year but he clearly wasn't the Vince of old.

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I don't agree and not because I'm a homer (I am) but because of metrics.

That season in the NFL, there were more than 100 pass attempts from the other team's one-yard line and before the Butler play, none had been intercepted.

Lynch had run 5 times from the one that season and had only scored 1 time (and had lost yards a couple of times).

The Pats had a heavy set that was meant to jam the line. 4th and 1 or 4th and goal from the 1 is not an easy play in the NFL - against any team, especially when everything is on the line.

Seattle had two plays left, 3 with an incomplete pass stopping the clock.

If they run Lynch on the first play (second down) and he doesn't get in, they need to burn a timeout and they've limited their play selection thereafter, particularly if he loses a yard or two. A second run not getting into the end-zone pretty much ends the game.

The play call wasn't bad (a fade would have been safer), but the breakdown happened because Wilson isn't Tom Brady - his mandate on that play should have been simple and straightforward: if it isn't CLEARLY there, throw it away. Period.

Wilson, not Carroll, blew it (and the receiver didn't help!).

More to the point, The Butler did it in the End Zone with a Pick. that play by Butler was purely spectacular.

ctpatsfan77 said:

One important point that often gets overlooked in discussions: the problem was not that Seattle chose to pass, but rather that they chose that pass.

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I agree, and not because Butler jumped the route. That was a nearly impossible play. He needed to completely sell out on the crosser and then squeeze the ball while colliding with a big ass WR. No, I wouldn't have run it because one big paw from a Branch or a Jones could've sent that ball straight up into the air. I would've rolled the midget out and given him some options.

Tony2046 said:

It's amazing how one play will become part of a Players/Coach Legacy and shade the rest of their accomplishments. Some are lucky some are not.

Butlers interception - Great for Butler, Horrible for Wilson, Carol and Bevell.
Sanchez and the Butt fumble
Bill's wide right. Norwood's missed field goal.
Bill Buckner - (although that thankfully has faded over the last few years)

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Vinateri's kick in the snow.

50-yard-line said:

Lynch had run 5 times from the one that season and had only scored 1 time (and had lost yards a couple of times).

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Nobody should criticize the decision to pass unless they have an answer to that stat ... and I don't recall seeing anybody answer it.

50-yard-line said:

The Butler did it in the End Zone with a Pick. that play by Butler was purely spectacular.

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LOL.

Tony2046 said:

It's amazing how one play will become part of a Players/Coach Legacy and shade the rest of their accomplishments. Some are lucky some are not.

Butlers interception - Great for Butler, Horrible for Wilson, Carol and Bevell.
Sanchez and the Butt fumble
Bill's wide right. Norwood's missed field goal.
Bill Buckner - (although that thankfully has faded over the last few years)

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David Tyree's helmet catch

Chiuba E. Obele said:

David Tyree's helmet catch

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Chiuba E. Obele said:

David Tyree's helmet catch

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That must have been painful to type that one.

Fencer said:

Giving Butler and Browner equal credit is a little overstated.

If it's just a pass deflection, then sure -- in that case their contributions are roughly equal, by which I mean Browner's might even be ahead. But actually getting a takeaway out of it? That was great play by Butler.

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Without Browner, there is no play.