Wetzel's report on today's (8/19) hearing.

YOUGOTMOSSED · Aug 20, 2015

PrairiePat said:
There's a 0.0000% chance that any incriminating emails actually still exist.

That's probably not true. Wells is risking disbarment if he destroys evidence and reviewing emails is probably something that appears on his billing statements.

patfanken · Aug 20, 2015

Fencer said:
Absent a settlement, I think Kessler will rule for Brady with a blast that will ripple in public opinion.

It still won't overturn the general consensus that Brady is a tarnished star, etc., but it will offer some small portion of redress.

But his doing that is probably contingent on Brady maintaining his willingness to settle in some way. So Brady has a tightrope to walk. I hope Kessler prepares him well.

I don't understand why you think Brady has to accept ANY concession for something he isn't guilty of, just because you think the Judge wants a settlement rather than a have to make a ruling.

Did you read Wetzel's article? Where's the leverage for Brady to accept any deal from the League other than a full reduction of all penalties, fines and responsibility. The judge put gaping holes not only into the League's procedural points as it pertains to the CBA, he questioned the league's basic fairness in there appeals process, as well as the whether any balls were tampered with in the first place.

Why would Brady consider even a $5 fine? Would you plea down to a felony with no jail time if you were innocent? I don't think so, Fencer.

MagicMarker · Aug 20, 2015

Brady needs a settlement more than the league does.

The NFL is trying to expand it's power. It will keep being unreasonable and will appeal if it loses. If it gets to the end of the road, it will try again with the next victim.

Even if Brady wins, it's not over. The NFL will appeal. Or, he might have to face a new hearing.

I agree no games. No admission of guilt. If he can get out with a fine, take it and move on.

Eventually the NFL corruption will come out.

Fencer · Aug 20, 2015

patfanken said:
Would you plea down to a felony with no jail time if you were innocent? I don't think so, Fencer.

Bad analogy. If the penalty is for non-cooperation, then Brady is confessing to NO facts other than those that are well-known in the public record. He'd never, ever, ever confess to cheating via ball deflation, but not turning over his phone -- well, he didn't turn over his phone, obviously.

Joker · Aug 20, 2015

jeezus krist...WTF did Kensil SAY on the field that night???

"WE GOT YOU!!!!!...stop overthinking every nit in this farcical fantasy...Brady's phone has ZERO to do with the FACT there WAS NO CASE to begin with.

You actually think this federal judge DOES NOT see this?

Deus Irae · Aug 20, 2015

patfanken said:
Would you plea down to a felony with no jail time if you were innocent? I don't think so, Fencer.

Yes, sometimes people take plea deals even when they are innocent.

XLIX · Aug 20, 2015

You know, last week I was a bit worried that Berman was doing the whole "Devil's Advocate" routine.... but after today? Man, he hammered the NFL pretty hard. Reading the reports, it almost seems like Berman and Kessler were ganging up on Nash.

I am starting to feel very optimistic - and that terrifies me.

supafly · Aug 20, 2015

Deus Irae said:
Yes, sometimes people take plea deals even when they are innocent.

People try and make the best out of their current situation, and sometimes that situation forces them to make a safer and more conservative choice. This is especially true when their backs are against the wall for whatever reason.

In the case of Tom Brady, his back has been against the wall for 7 solid months now. I don't think anyone needs to concern themselves with Brady admitting much of anything, aside from some very basic facts that as you say, are already well known to the public.

supafly · Aug 20, 2015

XLIX said:
You know, last week I was a bit worried that Berman was doing the whole "Devil's Advocate" routine.... but after today? Man, he hammered the NFL pretty hard. Reading the reports, it almost seems like Berman and Kessler were ganging up on Nash.

I am starting to feel very optimistic - and that terrifies me.

The NFL's refusal to budge whatsoever has to be concerning to someone like Berman. Perhaps he is helping them to realize that they had better start considering some alternative options very quickly?

patfanken · Aug 20, 2015

Fencer said:
Bad analogy. If the penalty if for non-cooperation, then Brady is confessing to NO facts other than those that are well-known in the public record. He'd never, ever, ever confess to cheating via ball deflation, but not turning over his phone -- well, he didn't turn over his phone, obviously.

I see your point, Fence, but I don't agree with it. The moment Brady accepts a fine for "non-cooperation" it becomes a fact that he didn't entirely cooperate with the investigation. The next question will be WHY? If he was innocent why didn't he cooperate. Innocent people don't refuse to cooperate. BTW- if he accepts a fine, won't just be about the cell phone. His acceptance would imply non-cooperation for the entire investigation. With that acceptance he seals his guilt forever.

This would be a tough pill for him to swallow, especially since he's cooperated fully from the start. We all know how competitive he is in all aspects of his life. I would admit that it would be a tough offer to pass up, since it would seem to allow him to get back and focus on the season. Many people will tell him that it would make it all go away. But it wouldn't.

Not only that, Brady has the opportunity to rid the League of the guy who is tearing it apart slowly but surely with his epic incompetence. In fact, I would be really worried if I though that the league would be smart enough to offer a such a deal that vacated the suspension and got Tom to accept a fine. THAT would scare me. However, like most bullies, Roger is inept enough to believe his own BS, and hopefully he won't budge. He'll just keep leaking crap to make Brady look weak and scared, like that "Brady was willing to take a 1 game suspension" story, and try to brazen his way through it.

Remember the worst scenario for Goodell in this case is the judge sets Brady goes completely free. But he still keeps the draft picks and his smear campaign of misinformation and lies can continue while he out shouts the truth with his corrosive narrative, just like he's done so well already. It will be a small set back. He will have lost the battle, but in the end I'm afraid he'll win the war. Like I said before, he'll continue to hurt the Patriots brand with his narrative. He'll hurt the Pats competitiveness with the lack of picks, and he'll never have to explain the League's actions in the week leading up to the AFCCG and the weeks after it.

Fencer · Aug 20, 2015

patfanken said:
I see your point, Fence, but I don't agree with it. The moment Brady accepts a fine for "non-cooperation" it becomes a fact that he didn't entirely cooperate with the investigation. The next question will be WHY? If he was innocent why didn't he cooperate. Innocent people don't refuse to cooperate. BTW- if he accepts a fine, won't just be about the cell phone. His acceptance would imply non-cooperation would encompass the entire investigation. With that acceptance he seals his guilt forever.

This would be a tough pill for him to swallow, especially since he's cooperated fully from the start. We all know how competitive he is in all aspects of his life. I would admit that it would be a tough offer to pass up, since it would seem to allow him to get back and focus on the season. Many people will tell him that it would make it all go away. But it wouldn't.

Not only that, Brady has the opportunity to rid the League of the guy who is tearing it apart slowly but surely with his epic incompetence. In fact, I would be really worried if I though that the league would be smart enough to offer a such a deal that vacated the suspension and got Tom to accept a fine. THAT would scare me. However, like most bullies, Roger is inept enough to believe his own BS, and hopefully he won't budge. He'll just keep leaking crap to make Brady look weak and scared, like that "Brady was willing to take a 1 game suspension" story, and try to brazen his way through it.

Remember the worst scenario for Goodell in this case is the judge sets Brady goes completely free. But he still keeps the draft picks and his smear campaign of misinformation and lies can continue while he out shouts the truth with his corrosive narrative, just like he's done so well already. It will be a small set back. He will have lost the battle, but in the end I'm afraid he'll win the war. Like I said before, he'll continue to hurt the Patriots brand with his narrative. He'll hurt the Pats competitiveness with the lack of picks, and he'll never have to explain the League's actions in the week leading up to the AFCCG and the weeks after it.

A settlement need not take any option away.

For example, suppose Brady settles, and soon thereafter gives a press conference in which he scorchingly denounces his treatment and the associated allegations? Here by "soon thereafter" I mean "In the same several-day news cycle." He wouldn't even have to jump through hoops for that timing; OF COURSE one of the first things he'll do after a settlement is catch up with the press obligations he's been avoiding (even the league hasn't been dumb enough to object to that), and OF COURSE the first subject will be DeflateGate.

I'd love to see headlines along the lines of "Brady: Goodell is a 'corrupt' and 'dishonest', fabricated DeflateGate". Is he freer to do that if he wins (and the NFL appeals), or if he settles? I'm not sure. I think it's easier if he wins,, so I hope he doesn't settle, but I certainly could respect the opposite decision.

I also think it's a lot easier if Berman excoriates the NFL in his judgment, so staying on Berman's good side is important to Tom.

patfanken · Aug 20, 2015

Deus Irae said:
Yes, sometimes people take plea deals even when they are innocent.

Sometimes they do, DI, but usually its because the DA has a lot of leverage. Where is the leverage in this case? Every time the league goes before Berman, the more leverage BRADY leaves with. Like I said before, Berman is not only beating the league up on specific points in the CBA, he is killing them on the Broader and more important issues of Basic Fairness, and whether a "crime" was committed in the first place.

What has happened during any of the court hearings that would make Brady think that he'd be well served by settling? The only thing I can think of is Berman's continued request for a settlement. But Wednesday Berman REALLY tipped his hand on where he wants this to go.

So sometimes when the circumstantial evidence really looks strong, even an innocent person might not want to take a chance on a jury, but in this case all the evidence is with Brady.

patfanken · Aug 20, 2015

Fencer said:
I also think it's a lot easier if Berman excoriates the NFL in his judgment, so staying on Berman's good side is important to Tom.

And that's EXACTLY another reason why shouldn't settle. Tom needs Berman's excoriating ruling from the Bench. If he settles I don't think he gets that. The Judge just announces the settlement as agreed to by the parties.

Deus Irae · Aug 20, 2015

patfanken said:
Sometimes they do, DI, but usually its because the DA has a lot of leverage. Where is the leverage in this case? Every time the league goes before Berman, the more leverage BRADY leaves with. Like I said before, Berman is not only beating the league up on specific points in the CBA, he is killing them on the Broader and more important issues of Basic Fairness, and whether a "crime" was committed in the first place.

What has happened during any of the court hearings that would make Brady think that he'd be well served by settling? The only thing I can think of is Berman's continued request for a settlement. But Wednesday Berman REALLY tipped his hand on where he wants this to go.

So sometimes when the circumstantial evidence really looks strong, even an innocent person might not want to take a chance on a jury, but in this case all the evidence is with Brady.

Berman saying things in court doesn't guarantee an outcome. I know this. The media lawyers following this case know this. The other Patsfans.com lawyers know this. You don't know how the judge is going to rule. Neither does Brady. That's the 'leverage'.

Danger Zone · Aug 20, 2015

Deus Irae said:
Berman saying things in court doesn't guarantee an outcome. I know this. The media lawyers following this case know this. The other Patsfans.com lawyers know this. You don't know how the judge is going to rule. Neither does Brady. That's the 'leverage'.

Ive watched every episode of Boston Legal.. I know how all this/the law works

mihap · Aug 20, 2015

Then there was this one from Kessler: "No one in the NFL knew anything about Ideal Gas Law, which is surprising because I think I studied that in ninth-grade science class."
Even Berman laughed at that.

Berman for president

supafly · Aug 20, 2015

Danger Zone said:
Ive watched every episode of Boston Legal.. I know how all this/the law works

At least with the cases of Dennard, Hernandez, and Spikes I could contribute an informed opinion since it was CrimJ related.

With this whacky ****, the only people who have a clue are the attys, and even then it can still be a toss up depending upon personal interpretation

Danger Zone · Aug 20, 2015

supafly said:
At least with the cases of Dennard, Hernandez, and Spikes I could contribute an informed opinion since it was CrimJ related.

With this whacky ****, the only people who have a clue are the attys, and even then it can still be a toss up depending upon personal interpretation

I hear that. I'm surprised at how esoteric Arbitration/CBA law seems to be. It's much like I would imagine Contract and Tax law must be.

AzorianPats · Aug 20, 2015

mihap said:
Then there was this one from Kessler: "No one in the NFL knew anything about Ideal Gas Law, which is surprising because I think I studied that in ninth-grade science class."
Even Berman laughed at that.

Berman for president

If Berman vacates the penalty, he becomes a cult hero across New England lol

PatsFanInVa · Aug 20, 2015

I really do want Brady's "name cleared," and of course getting him back for those 4 games is important.

But the (unlikely) return of the draft picks is more important operationally. If that doesn't happen, during the draft, the Pats should hold a press event where they announce their pick when they "would be" on the clock.

Then if Player X becomes a superstar, every time the Pats win something big in the future, Collinsworth could say "holy cow, and how good would this team be if they had Player X on the roster?" The broadcast team could play the "fill the fourth quarter with woulda coulda shoulda talk" game when the Pats are up by 28 with 10 minutes to go.

Or if Player X becomes MVP, the media could say "And if it weren't for that penalty Player X woulda coulda shoulda been a Patriot."

And every time they do that they could repeat the facts of how the NFL* basically had no grounds to steal the pick. "What was that anyway? Some kind of League socialism?"

Now that would get through to the average football fan.

Wetzel's report on today's (8/19) hearing.

In the Starting Line-Up

PatsFans.com Supporter

Third String But Playing on Special Teams

Pro Bowl Player

PatsFans.com Supporter

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club

Pro Bowl Player

Eff you, Shula

Eff you, Shula

PatsFans.com Supporter

Pro Bowl Player

PatsFans.com Supporter

PatsFans.com Supporter

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club

In the Starting Line-Up

Third String But Playing on Special Teams

Eff you, Shula

In the Starting Line-Up

In the Starting Line-Up

PatsFans.com Supporter