NFL vs. Brady Federal Court Hearing (8/19) LIVE UPDATES AND TWEETS

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/lupica-goodell-scrambling-article-1.2331538

Still, Judge Richard M. Berman presses on, continues to do everything except hire skywriters pushing for a settlement, a resolution that he described on Wednesday as “rational and logical.” But by now he has to know that turf wars such as this one rarely are rational or logical, and usually about saving face when they make it as far as this one has, all the way to him.

“I just finished a case where the judge basically forced a settlement by ordering us in court on a regular basis and forcing us all to sit until we settled,” this newspaper’s legal analyst, New York attorney Tom Harvey, said on Wednesday. “I believe this is going in the same direction. The uncertainty of whether Brady is available for the first game puts a lot of pressure on everyone, and this judge knows it. This case will be settled and settled soon.”

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I'm just glad that Berman sees very clearly what was Wells role in the elaboration of this report and being from the same line of work, must be very upset with a mercenary lawyer like Wells.

BradyFTW! said:

Then he most likely gets held in contempt of court, would be my guess.

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Between now and the 31st when Brady and Goodell are back in front of Berman, Goodell has to face his contempt of court hearing on the 26th. While it won't happen, I think it would be funny if Goodell was still in a cell and could not attend the 31st (which could be viewed as contempt as well).

Roger is suffering from the proverbial unintended consequences of really bad advice and really bad decision making.. there will be a long list of casualties from this activity. I suspect the 31 are tiring of the negative press and bad management exercised by the "Jets Boyz" on Madison Ave.

When we go back to how this whole thing started, it is preposterous that this got this big and this out of control.. it is a freaking equipment violation. A small fine would have made this whole thing go away, instead the NFL is looking like a league of buttholes...

I don't think the case could be going much better for Brady and the NFLPA. But I wont let myself get too excited and overconfident, the ruling can still go either way imo.

n6249c said:

I'm surprised this has apparently escaped mention..,

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No surprise, but I think the major media outlets are on some type of unofficial gag order. The ESPN article doesn't even mention it.

I was watching Canadian news yesterday afternoon and that was the major headline to describe how the court case was going. It was hard to find it anywhere on any big US sports sites. It makes me wonder if the NFL has been pressuring them not to report a lot of this stuff or less critically.

Edit: The more coffee I drink, the more I wake up and actually think. This might explain the erroneous report about Brady willing to accept some kind of punishment that came from ESPN. After the whole Mort fiasco, it's clear ESPN is just the NFL's mouthpiece.

DarrylS said:

Roger is suffering from the proverbial unintended consequences of really bad advice and really bad decision making.. there will be a long list of casualties from this activity. I suspect the 31 are tiring of the negative press and bad management exercised by the "Jets Boyz" on Madison Ave.

When we go back to how this whole thing started, it is preposterous that this got this big and this out of control.. it is a freaking equipment violation. A small fine would have made this whole thing go away, instead the NFL is looking like a league of buttholes...

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I have often wondered in the past 6 months how the hell can a multi billion dollar industry come to this level of stupidity. I have to remind myself that this was never about deflated footballs or PSI or the IGL or text messages, but simply overblown ego's that wanted to get revenge on loosing.

So someone high up came up with this whole scheme and never imagined it would get this far. I still dont think it was Goodell himself who in visioned this. There are plenty of people who hate the Pats in the front office of the NFL so it would be that hard to imagine one of them doing this.

I do hope that whatever conclusion of this whole fiasco comes to, there is an expose of the NFL and its wide level of corruption that would put FIFA to a good light. Hopefully then we can all put this to rest and move on with actual football.

If the NFL ever does a retrospective on this catastrophe, I would hope that the one takeaway from it would be to end the practice of putting former employees of NFL teams (ie the jests) into positions of power for the league

This entire saga began because the league was stupid enough to hand the director of game day operations job to a second generation jest employee who had a strong personal vendetta against Bill Belichick, and then let him work a Patriots playoff game

goodell needs to stop handing out these types of jobs to his jests cronies. From now in recruit from the private sector, or maybe from the college football level

The Brandon Five said:

You know, I just watched "Three Games to Glory" and it reminded me of just how bad the officiating in that Ravens game was. Clearly the league did not want the Pats to get another Lombardi. Step 1 was egregiously lopsided officiating in the Divisional Game. Step 2 was the sting and resulting distraction of Defamegate.

Suck it, league office.

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Care to share what you disagree with, betterthanthealternative?

The Brandon Five said:

Care to share what you disagree with, betterthanthealternative?
View attachment 10119

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Yes. I don't disagree with posts very often, because I hate the red X, so you can be sure I thought carefully about it.

There's a generally accepted and frequently expressed premise on this Board that the game officials act as an extension of the NFL front office's wishes, and intentionally change the fairness with which they call games based on a bias that's provided them prior to the games.

This would require a massive complex conspiracy, administered with extraordinary skill not to have ever come to light. It would also require a level of collaboration on the part of the NFL owners that doesn't align with their other behavior. Their is too much jealousy and competition between them.

The extension of this in the Pats' case is what you stated - that the refs are dishonest, lying, cheating scum involved in a conspiracy to unfairly thwart the Pats which has never been discovered, but which many Pats fans see as a certainty based on what happens on game days.

I have little doubt that the NFL front office is a confederacy of dunces, and in the cases of bountygate and defamegate, a conspiracy of dunces.

But to take extend this to the refs doesn't work for me. I don't doubt that one or more of them has been influenced with cash to shade their calls in a certain direction, over the course of the NFL's history. And because they are human, there are differences in their ability, performance, and approach. But not the organized conspiracy.

And as has been pointed out by a poster of two on this Board, the officials and their union are at odds with the NFL administration as a negotiating adversary. It doesn't make sense that they would put their entire personal and professional lives at risk to do the owners' bidding in this case.

This is supplemented by the fact that I've met a couple of the officials (entirely by chance) and just can't see it.

When we fans espouse this as a certainty, and in the process defame an entire profession, we engage in the same kind of shoddy thinking and irresponsible behavior as the fans of other teams, and the media, are about Brady and the Pats as "cheaters" etc.

So that's the reason for the red x.

betterthanthealternative said:

Yes. I don't disagree with posts very often, because I hate the red X, so you can be sure I thought carefully about it.

There's a generally accepted and frequently expressed premise on this Board that the game officials act as an extension of the NFL front office's wishes, and intentionally change the fairness with which they call games based on a bias that's provided them prior to the games.

This would require a massive complex conspiracy, administered with extraordinary skill not to have ever come to light. It would also require a level of collaboration on the part of the NFL owners that doesn't align with their other behavior. Their is too much jealousy and competition between them.

The extension of this in the Pats' case is what you stated - that the refs are dishonest, lying, cheating scum involved in a conspiracy to unfairly thwart the Pats which has never been discovered, but which many Pats fans see as a certainty based on what happens on game days.

I have little doubt that the NFL front office is a confederacy of dunces, and in the cases of bountygate and defamegate, a conspiracy of dunces.

But to take extend this to the refs doesn't work for me. I don't doubt that one or more of them has been influenced with cash to shade their calls in a certain direction, over the course of the NFL's history. And because they are human, there are differences in their ability, performance, and approach. But not the organized conspiracy.

And as has been pointed out by a poster of two on this Board, the officials and their union are at odds with the NFL administration as a negotiating adversary. It doesn't make sense that they would put their entire personal and professional lives at risk to do the owners' bidding in this case.

This is supplemented by the fact that I've met a couple of the officials (entirely by chance) and just can't see it.

When we fans espouse this as a certainty, and in the process defame an entire profession, we engage in the same kind of shoddy thinking and irresponsible behavior as the fans of other teams, and the media, are about Brady and the Pats as "cheaters" etc.

So that's the reason for the red x.

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I don't ordinarily go this route either, but the calls in that Divisional Game were ridiculously lopsided. The no-catch call on Amendola's brilliant play followed by a "catch" call on a similar play for the Ravens. Brady getting poked in the eye with no call. Blatant defensive holds not called. Revis called for PI when there was clear OPI by Smith. Just brutal.

The Brandon Five said:

I don't ordinarily go this route either, but the calls in that Divisional Game were ridiculously lopsided. The no-catch call on Amendola's brilliant play followed by a "catch" call on a similar play for the Ravens. Brady getting poked in the eye with no call. Blatant defensive holds not called. Revis called for PI when there was clear OPI by Smith. Just brutal.

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Yeah, agreed. I was too.
I was certainly tempted to see it as intentional.

betterthanthealternative said:

Yeah, agreed. I was too.
I was certainly tempted to see it as intentional.

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While I certainly can't see a conspiracy involving refs, I could see coordination within the LO to choose certain refs for certain games to effect a certain outcome, but this would be refs as pawns, not as collaborators.

MitchKumstein said:

goodell needs to stop handing out these types of jobs to his jests cronies. From now in recruit from the private sector, or maybe from the college football level

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Quickest way is to remove Goodell from that position (and all his appointments to come under independent review in order to maintain their jobs). Then again, you could dump all of them and find better replacements for half the salary.

RelocatedPatFan said:

Then again, you could dump all of them and find better replacements for 5% of the salary.

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Fixed it.

Lets pretend for a moment that it is not Goodell, but an intelligent and honest leader.
What, then, is the flaw in the system, or what you want to change?

Is hiring an independent investigator a good idea? I think its better than conducting your own. Without Goodell in power, it would have been independent.

Is the standard of proof wrong? I say yes. This case proved that an opinion can be considered preponderence of evidence. Perhaps a fine could be based on that standard, but taking away someones job, or draft picks from the team, should be based upon shadow of a doubt.

Clearly an unbiased Commissioner would choose between setting the punishment, and arbitrating it.
I waffle on which role would be best for a morally competent commissioner. I think in the end that you will never get a commissioner that will be equally fair to the NFL and NFLPA because the NFL pays him, so the final arbitration should be done by an outside, independent party.

So, fire Goodell, hire someone not morally deficient, change the standard of proof, do independent investigations where necessary, but truly independent, allow the Commissioner to be the sole judge of punishment, and set up a panel of arbitrators that the NFL and NFLPA agree to and choose on a random basis.

Had these things been in place, we wouldn't be in court, because THEN the claims the NFL is now making in court would be true: the court would have no place questioning the decision of a truly impartial arbitrator.

AndyJohnson said:

So, fire Goodell, hire someone not morally deficient, change the standard of proof, do independent investigations where necessary, but truly independent, allow the Commissioner to be the sole judge of punishment, and set up a panel of arbitrators that the NFL and NFLPA agree to and choose on a random basis.

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The standard of proof (more probable than not...it's used in civil cases all the time. It's why Ted Wells was indignant when people were making fun of him for using that legal term of art) isn't the problem. It's being docked draft picks, fined and suspended for being "generally aware" of something. Hell, we can even argue about the owner and coach of the team getting docked draft picks when the report exonerated both of them.

archstanton543 said:

The standard of proof (more probable than not...it's used in civil cases all the time. It's why Ted Wells was indignant when people were making fun of him for using that legal term of art) isn't the problem. It's being docked draft picks, fined and suspended for being "generally aware" of something. Hell, we can even argue about the owner and coach of the team getting docked draft picks when the report exonerated both of them.

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The standard of proof, which by the way was misused here, is the problem when you are denying a man the right to work.
The Wells report found the Patriots guilty of deflating footballs to gain a competitive advantage by the preponderance of evidence in Wells opinion (and Goodells) and the team was penalized. Finding that Kraft and Belichick were not involved had absolutely nothing to do with penalizing the franchise.
Wells found that The Deflator and Dorito Dink, as employees of the NE Patriots, schemed a plan to wait until after the refs measured the PSI then sneak off and let air out so that the Patriots would have a competitive advantage to go to the SB. He found that Brady was at least generally aware.
If this were true, the penalties given to the Patriots would be justified in my opinion.
I am totally fine that if a team tries to cheat to win, and do it in a clandestine manner that the penalty should be severe (but also consistent with like cases).
The problem is that if you are going to do that you have to have more than conjecture, and dismissing the only testimony you get and concluding the opposite of it when NO NOE EVER TESTIFIED IN DISPUTE OF IT.

h0c2000 said:

Those are 2 separate grounds for vacating the award. If Berman accepts at least those 2 grounds, strengthens his decision.

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Actually there are 4.

AndyJohnson said:

Lets pretend for a moment that it is not Goodell, but an intelligent and honest leader.
What, then, is the flaw in the system, or what you want to change?

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Why start halfway in the travesty that is defamegate.

This should have been handled better from the beginning with a commissioner who understood the severity of the issue (minor) and warned the team or all teams about no "funny" business with the footballs and then developed an actual policy with a secure chain of custody.

Setting up a sting is proof of extreme bias. Thus, that is where Kraft needs to go, but can't unless he can get internal documents/conversations from the office. Which, you would think they could just ask for seeing how Goodell works for him (them, them being the obvious problem).

I want an actual investigation into the potential sting. after all, we have to make sure the Commissioner (and his appointed team) is the model of high-integrity character