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NFL vs. Brady Federal Court Hearing (8/19) LIVE UPDATES AND TWEETS


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Hope Berman questions Goody in court about process.
 
I'm going to put on my Debbie Downer hat again...

Say Berman rules in favor of Brady and vacates the award.

What stops Roger-as-commissioner from re-imposing the same punishment, another appeal happening (this time making sure to hit all the procedural checkboxes, such as having Pash testify) with either Goodell-as-arbitrator or some hand-picked crony acting as arbitrator, and the arbitrator magically happening to uphold the commissioner's punishment?

More appropriately...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eeyore

Eeyore is a character in the Winnie-the-Poohbooks by A. A. Milne. He is generally characterized as a pessimistic, gloomy, depressed, anhedonic, old grey stuffed donkey
 
It's actually worse than THAT, PM. A better analogy would be if someone was found guilty of murder, and then the Judge found out that the so called victim is alive and well, and the initial "crime" never occurred in the first place. :eek:

Unfortunately Berman cannot rule on the efficacy and science of whether the balls were deflated or not. He has to rule on whether the CBA was followed correctly, AND if the appeals procedure itself was conducted fairly. Clearly the latter is a no brainer, but what's more dumbfounding for me, is how that clown college of a league office, managed to violate their own CBA, which is so heavily biased in their favor, they should never have to violated it.

Now that brings me to this question. I'm reading now that "it's been reported" that Brady was willing to accept a one game suspension. Is that more of the NFL leaking BS so that Brady looks like he's guilty of SOMETHING, because he's willing to take a suspension. Or is it actually coming from the Brady camp in order to create some kind of impression that they are trying to comply with his orders to settle this?

Now the latter sounds like a ridiculous strategy. EVERY indication is that the NFL is going to lose this case, why would they want to look weak now. My biggest fear is that Brady will accept a small fine. I don't even want THAT. If he accepts anything, then the NFL will get away with the biggest smear job in their history......AND the Pats will lose those picks for a crime we all know didn't happen.

Yes it is a better analogy.

As far as the failure to cooperate fine? Sure, even that is bs up to this point. Since he was about as cooperative as can be, compared to say Favre who everyone likes to refer to. Which is also a farce since we all know Wells didn't want the phone where as Goodell demanded Favre's cell. Similar but vastly different.

Christ, if 50,000 will end it I'm sure Brady would of wrote the check the day after the Super Bowl. Not that he should, just to end this whole charade.
 
The questions Berman is asking the NFL are the questions the media should have raised as soon as the Wells report was released. And we all saw what happened.

Not only is deflategate dumber than **** it's an indictment on sports media and by extension American culture.
 
Yes it is a better analogy.

As far as the failure to cooperate fine? Sure, even that is bs up to this point. Since he was about as cooperative as can be, compared to say Favre who everyone likes to refer to. Which is also a farce since we all know Wells didn't want the phone where as Goodell demanded Favre's cell. Similar but vastly different.

Christ, if 50,000 will end it I'm sure Brady would of wrote the check the day after the Super Bowl. Not that he should, just to end this whole charade.
I'd hate it if he accepted even a $5 fine. Accepting the fine would be accepting the label of being a cheater forever. It would mean accepting the perception of something fishy MUST have been going on. More importantly it would mean NEVER getting those picks back. Never being able to expose the sting, the leaks, and all the other shoddy, nefarious, and malicious behavior by the NFL league offices these past 7 months.

C'mon, PM. Tell me it doesn't get you just a little stiff thinking about the day, an officer of the court arrives at the league offices in NYC, and DEMANDS Goodell, Pash, and Kensil, all hand over their cell phones for discovery. I don't know about you but, I've got a raging hard on right now imagining THAT picture....and at my age, that's something. ;)
 
Can anyone really believe its taken all this time for one person to finally look at this sensibly and realise its all a load of rubbish and has been from the start? How can nobody at the NFL not realised how silly and unfounded it all is.
It looks like it's the first time someone in a position of authority, outside the NFL, has been able to review the case (and speak openly and I bet he will have some choice words when he makes his ruling...the NFL has seen nothing yet -- I hope).
 
The main issue is the Steve Garvey case. Garvey appealed an arbitration decision and actually showed that there were clear, undeniable errors of fact that were considered in the arbitration decision. Garvey lost, though, because errors of fact were determined to be irrelevant to the court labor case, which was to focus on procedures.

It is a tough precedent.

but Kessler is doing great in showing that we are not discussing mere errors, but obviously biased intent to distort and deceive on the part of persons responsible for the arbitration. A fundamental lack of fairness.

ianal


You just stated Felger's point this afternoon.

Here's where that and Felger's position is dead wrong regarding Garvey.

The Garvey case was about ******** factual errors in a case where the MLB FOLLOWED the accepted procedures of arbitration.

THIS case is about ******** factual errors where the NFL completely DID NOT follow the accepted procedures of arbitration.

It is for this very reason (and the only reason for Berman in his narrow mandate here) that Brady not being able to make Pash testify, Pash editing the "independent" Wells report, Lorin Reissner of Wells' firm cross examining Brady during the arbitration appeal on behalf of the NFL, etc. etc. etc. that Berman can most definitely nail the NFL in his decision.

It has nothing to do with the manufactured ******** "facts" or the fact that the CBA gave them this ridiculous self arbitration right.. It has everything to do with the NFL not even following the ridiculous rights of self arbitration that the CBA granted them.

It's akin to a a silver spooned Woody Johnson or Jim Irsay pissing away the inherited gift they have been given
 
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The questions Berman is asking the NFL are the questions the media should have raised as soon as the Wells report was released. And we all saw what happened.

Not only is deflategate dumber than **** it's an indictment on sports media and by extension American culture.

Just really generally speaking, to become a lawyer, generally you have to graduate from a university, then spend 3 more years in law school, then pass a specialized test for your field. To become a judge takes even more hard work and studying.

To become a sports writer, one only needs to figure out where the caps lock key is and make sure the monitor isn't upside-down most of the time. Facts and sources are no longer necessary tools. Actual knowledge is no longer necessary either, we'll just put an "Expert" tag under your name.

The bar is obviously significantly lower to become a sports writer, so I don't think anyone should be surprised at how vast the difference between the two can be when they occasionally cross each others' paths.
 
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The bar is obviously significantly lower to become a sports writer, so I don't think anyone should be surprised at how vast the difference between the two can be when they occasionally cross each others' paths.
And even lower still to become an executive in the NFL* league office. You just have to not have a soul or be a diehard JEST fan.
 
Anyone citing the Garvey case at this point is either anti-Brady or is just repeating what they've heard and hasn't really looked at it.


Felger.

It's been his entire show the last two days.

It's his last refuge.
 
"There has to be some basic process of fairness that needs to be followed"

Berman argued to Nash after the NFL explained why it failed to allow Brady to question certain witnesses, notably general counsel Jeff Pash, who also co-wrote the disputed Ted Wells report about deflated footballs.

When Nash tried to argue that Pash wasn't that involved and was more of an editor, Berman, like this was a cross-examination, pointed to an NFL press release that referred to Pash as "co-lead." Nash, stepped back from that lectern, again tried to minimize it as just a press release.

"Well," Berman said, "it's not my press release. You all wrote it."
Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes!

That is the big one. The question is, of course: what is that "basic process of fairness" in Berman's mind? But, once that door has been opened, I can't see how the NFL* has a hope. Brady didn't have a chance to see and challenge the evidence presented against him, time and again.

I'm just waiting for Berman to dust off this old West Wing quote (sorry Mike, might not make sense to you).

1c79b9b112e0da6dc4112d24490d3e51.jpg
 
And I have to admire the league for their consistent hypocrisy. It never waivers, and consistency is a virtue. The league is trying to brush off refusing Brady's legal team to speak to Pash during the appeal, meanwhile they fined the team and docked a 1st for failure to cooperate, largely in part by denying a request to interview a part-time employee for a 5th time.

Keep it coming guys.
 
Felger.

It's been his entire show the last two days.

It's his last refuge.

That and i'm sure he'll cling to Schefter's now debunked "league source" report of Brady willing to take 1 game and spin it that it wasn't until after the hearing today that he changed his tune about that because there was a chance the hearing might not have went his way.
 
And I have to admire the league for their consistent hypocrisy. It never waivers, and consistency is a virtue. The league is trying to brush off refusing Brady's legal team to speak to Pash during the appeal, meanwhile they fined the team and docked a 1st for failure to cooperate, largely in part by denying a request to interview a part-time employee for a 5th time.

Keep it coming guys.


I'm actually waiting for them to argue "this isn't the government's business". You know with them being the ones to run to the court to file first.
 
Brace yourself for the 2nd round of "Berman was just doing that to force a settlement because he knows he has to rule for the nfl"
Lester Munson was on the Dan Lebatard show and sounded like a complete moron...said he's 100% sure there's no way Brady wins this. That all the judge us doing is because the nfl has the much stronger case is trying to urge them to settle. But what really made him sound stupid was saying he read the wells report and Goddells press release and they were both very well written and all he needed to know Brady was guilty. I wanted to scream. ...how can someone honestly read the wells report/Goddells press release and transcript of appeal and think it's well written etc. I just wanted to scream, moron!
 
I really hope that Berman vacates the suspension and penalizes the NFL for it's underhanded BS. Furthermore, I truly believe that his ruling will be so heavy against the NFL that the owners will step in and prevent Goodell, Nash, and Pash from appealing it.. Why? Because I believe that the owners will be so sick of it by then and the bad publicity from the ruling will force the issue..
 
Felger.

It's been his entire show the last two days.

It's his last refuge.


Especially after his Tuba player left town.
 
That and i'm sure he'll cling to Schefter's now debunked "league source" report of Brady willing to take 1 game and spin it that it wasn't until after the hearing today that he changed his tune about that because there was a chance the hearing might not have went his way.
Heh he refused to entertain that Schefter's report was wrong. Spoke very matter of factly that "Brady offered a one game suspension. It's an admission of guilt. Take the deal Roger!". Hell, a Steelers fan called in and noted that there were conflicting reports and he just shot it down without consideration. He's been a crazed, frothing out the mouth, ****hole for months.
 
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