McCann thinks this is total war

BradyFTW! · Aug 15, 2015

TheBostonStraggler said:
The key phrase is "yet he still keeps bullying". Goodell has never backed down. The courts might have smacked him down but he never lost tangible face from a 'this is the line in the sand I will always draw it any way I want' perspective. Doesn't everyone continue to completely believe if you defy Goodell you will have an ugly all out fight directed at you? And the more you openly defy him, especially if you make him look bad, the uglier he will get (and his face is already patently disturbing).

Given that how does he back down now after going so all in for everyone that defies him?? He simply can't allow that persona to be injured. He has to throw everything in but the kitchen sink to show he will never back down. Win or lose in the courts he is showing everyone the cost of defying him. Brady is paying a heavy toll right now for defying him and, IMHO, it will linger for Brady after the court case is over. I expect undercurrents of trouble for Brady from the league office as retribution. Small stuff, under the radar, things that there isn't much that can be done about. I'm certain that will be the case for the Patriots organization too. Goodell has been so underhanded on this and in the past, why would we expect he wouldn't use his power to send those small and hard to identify/defend against ripples of trouble toward Brady and the Patriots?
Just is what it is unfortunately....

I think he has absolutely lost face through his repeated beatdowns in court. In fact, I think the whole reason why he has pursued this case as far as he has is because he has to rehab his imagine because it was so damaged from those various fiascos. Which will make it especially ironic/awesome if his attempt to rehab his image is what takes him beyond the credibility event horizon. If this goes the way I hope it goes, there's no coming back from it. Literally nothing that could rehabilitate his image from "disgraced, demonstrably incompetent lame duck commissioner". Not that the owners care, worst comes to worst they can just fire him and appoint someone new. That's the whole point of having a designated fall guy.

Yes, people still believe that if you defy Goodell the appeal will be a sham and you'll have to go to court. But if Brady wins here, the players (and more importantly, the NFLPA) will be all the more willing to do just that. Going to court is always imposing and never a good thing, but I'd much rather go to court against someone who always loses there than... well, pretty much anyone else.

SVN · Aug 15, 2015

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/08/14/tom-brady-filing-roger-goodell-deflategate-federal-case-analysis

1. This was personal

While all of Brady’s legal filings to date have been critical of Goodell, the one filed on Friday appears uniquely aimed at Goodell. Its tone is especially harsh and its rhetoric is most unforgiving.
Among the many accusations leveled at Goodell in its filing, Brady’s legal team mocks Goodell’s July 28, 2015 memorandum upholding Brady’s four-game suspension as “a propaganda piece written for public consumption, at a time when the NFL believed the transcript would be sealed from public view, to validate a multi-million-dollar ‘independent’ investigation.” This is extraordinary language for any legal filing, let alone one about the commissioner of the NFL.

TheBostonStraggler · Aug 15, 2015

BradyFTW! said:
I think he has absolutely lost face through his repeated beatdowns in court. In fact, I think the whole reason why he has pursued this case as far as he has is because he has to rehab his imagine because it was so damaged from those various fiascos. Which will make it especially ironic/awesome if his attempt to rehab his image is what takes him beyond the credibility event horizon. If this goes the way I hope it goes, there's no coming back from it. Literally nothing that could rehabilitate his image from "disgraced, demonstrably incompetent lame duck commissioner". Not that the owners care, worst comes to worst they can just fire him and appoint someone new. That's the whole point of having a designated fall guy.

Yes, people still believe that if you defy Goodell the appeal will be a sham and you'll have to go to court. But if Brady wins here, the players (and more importantly, the NFLPA) will be all the more willing to do just that. Going to court is always imposing and never a good thing, but I'd much rather go to court against someone who always loses there than... well, pretty much anyone else.

We'll have to disagree on the point of Goodell's face (ugh, I just lost my appetite

). I don't think Goodell makes punishment decisions based on it being court proof or even that he even actually believes the punishment will be served. I think he hands out punishment based much more on his PR public 'force of good that is unequivocal and can't be stopped' persona. It's unwavering and it will come at you regardless if a court or arbitrator lessens it some other day.
IF that is his motivation then what power to decide harsh punishment has he lost and how has it changed his decision making/his machinations? Further, if he has lost face/been diminished because of previous court case losses then WTF is this defamegate about?? The guy has hitched his wagon to a case of guilt he had to know was weak, and use this weak basis to go against an exemplary player of the highest marketability, and against a player that was likeliest to be able to mount the most robust defense and anti-NFL media attention gathering? IMHO if he had lost some 'power' face in those court cases, he would have felt a bit more gun shy about going out on a limb to create defamegate. otherwise Goodell is either lacking serious reasoning ability and/or the power of the people as a collective in his office has outgrown Goodell himself (and he couldn't stop it even if he wanted to).

BradyFTW! · Aug 15, 2015

TheBostonStraggler said:
We'll have to disagree on the point of Goodell's face (ugh, I just lost my appetite ). I don't think Goodell makes punishment decisions based on it being court proof or even that he even actually believes the punishment will be served. I think he hands out punishment based much more on his PR public 'force of good that is unequivocal and can't be stopped' persona. It's unwavering and it will come at you regardless if a court or arbitrator lessens it some other day.
IF that is his motivation then what power to decide harsh punishment has he lost and how has it changed his decision making/his machinations? Further, if he has lost face/been diminished because of previous court case losses then WTF is this defamegate about?? The guy has hitched his wagon to a case of guilt he had to know was weak, and use this weak basis to go against an exemplary player of the highest marketability, and against a player that was likeliest to be able to mount the most robust defense and anti-NFL media attention gathering? IMHO if he had lost some 'power' face in those court cases, he would have felt a bit more gun shy about going out on a limb to create defamegate. otherwise Goodell is either lacking serious reasoning ability and/or the power of the people as a collective in his office has outgrown Goodell himself (and he couldn't stop it even if he wanted to).

I don't totally agree--I think that every case he loses in court undermines his authority, as it demonstrates that taking him to court is a more and more viable alternative--but I do agree on a lot of the specifics of what you just wrote. I don't think we're all that far off, TBH, and I definitely respect where you're coming from.

TheBostonStraggler · Aug 15, 2015

BradyFTW! said:
I don't totally agree--I think that every case he loses in court undermines his authority, as it demonstrates that taking him to court is a more and more viable alternative--but I do agree on a lot of the specifics of what you just wrote. I don't think we're all that far off, TBH, and I definitely respect where you're coming from.

I see your argument. It's certainly very plausible.
On a side note, with you making a good and plausible argument, it means you can be checked off the list of Patsfans posters that may be one of Goodell's minions posting in disguise.

JDot · Aug 15, 2015

Patsfanin Philly · Aug 15, 2015

SVN said:
http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/08/14/tom-brady-filing-roger-goodell-deflategate-federal-case-analysis

I wonder if the inclusion of Goodell on a personal level was to try to get him to testify this coming We'd ( if rumors of witnesses are true) so Kessler can rip him a new orifice. Getting deposed or cross examined is never fun, and I imagine less so when it is by one of the top litigators in the nation.

EDIT Just saw McCann's comments that only people who testified in the appeal could be witnesses, so it limits it to Goodell and Brady.......Did Wells testify or was he just there for window dressing??

PatsFanInVa · Aug 15, 2015

From the article...

3. Judge Berman’s unexpected interest in the facts is a focal point in both sides’ briefs

In the court hearing conducted this past Wednesday, Judge Berman surprised most observers by demonstrating significant curiosity in the underlying evidence relating to Brady and slightly under-inflated footballs.

Goodell is already beaten if the judge cares that the NFL* acted more like a PR firm than a league in this matter.

You see the tide already turning among "reasonable" fans, players, etc., elsewhere. The more proceedings, the worse Goodell looks, and eventually the imaginary asterisk that for whatever reason he wants to apply to this dynasty goes more and more where it belongs, to his kangaroo court tactics.

I want:
1) A win in this case;
2) While Goodell appeals, a defamation case brought by Brady and/or Kraft;
3) (To much to hope for) - a suit brought either as a class action by well-heeled Pats fans, by Kraft, or both, to vacate Goodell's draft pick theft

3a) "That ship has sailed?" Maybe not. Kraft could say his initial decision was based on good-faith promises by Goodell, or even "just for the good of the league," whatever...

But based on what came to light in the Brady case it became clearer to Kraft that Goodell was purposely trying to smear the Patriots, and that the draft picks were part of that smear campaign - the lawyers can say whether this is even possible... I know zippo about the law... but that's my pipe dream.

And oh yeah, the owners sack Goodell and the League apologizes to the Patriots, not only for this latest assault, but for the 2008 selective enforcement first-rounder.

Then ultimately the argument in the bars becomes "how great could this team have been if the league weren't conspiring to take it down?"... if I live long enough to see it...

Haley · Aug 15, 2015

This is pretty strong language. This filing seems pretty close to what you might need for the first part of a defamation suit to prove malice. I wonder if they are putting a toe in and testing the waters on that. I know it would be very hard to prove but this seems pretty close.

PatsFanSince74 · Aug 15, 2015

PatsFanInVa said:
"The line between true believers and Saints..."

Oh the irony.

Outsmarted myself on that one. Great Catch!

PatsFanSince74 · Aug 15, 2015

zydecochris said:
I was comparing Cato's obsession with Carthage with Goodell's obsession with the Patriots, but Hopefully the end result will be different in this case. How can anyone that incompetent win in the end?

I'm afraid that Goodell has taken his cue from Horace on this one:

Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori.

He is "all in" and ready to go down with the ship.

RelocatedPatFan · Aug 15, 2015

Haley said:
This is pretty strong language. This filing seems pretty close to what you might need for the first part of a defamation suit to prove malice. I wonder if they are putting a toe in and testing the waters on that. I know it would be very hard to prove but this seems pretty close.

Probably a message of, you think this is as far as the situation can go? No, let me tell demonstrate the lack of control, reason, and balance you put into this process. it works for today and the next potential case.

Patsfanin Philly · Aug 15, 2015

PatsFanSince74 said:
Outsmarted myself on that one. Great Catch!

Not to get too fancy but that dovetails nicely with Voltaire's famous quote.....

"It is lamentable, that to be a good patriot one must become the enemy of the rest of mankind."

PatsFanSince74 · Aug 15, 2015

Patsfanin Philly said:
Not to get too fancy but that dovetails nicely with Voltaire's famous quote.....

"It is lamentable, that to be a good patriot one must become the enemy of the rest of mankind."

Not to get too mushy about what is in reality a back alley, bare knuckles fight, but, yes, in many ways the Patriots are standing up for the rights of players across the NFL and getting hammered left and right for it. That's why I admire a guy like Cromartie for stepping up for Brady this week. He knows what is at stake. It's shocking, actually, that nearly every other high profile player has stayed on the sidelines while Brady fights for their rights.

I'm afraid that, for me, Robert Kraft's defining moment, despite all that he has done to build this Franchise from a laughingstock, will be his backing down in May because he failed to realize that the situation called for him to "become the enemy of the rest of...[the Owners]."

It's nice that Bob has subsequently acknowledged his mistake, but the words of Neville Chamberlain on the day when Great Britain inevitably went to war with Germany bear a striking resemblance to Kraft's "apology": "Everything that I have worked for, everything that I have hoped for, everything that I have believed in during my public life has crashed into ruins. There is only one thing left for me to do: that is devote what strength and power I have to forwarding the victory of the cause for which we have sacrificed so much."

We're still waiting to see whether that was more than words, Mr. Kraft. Not much from the Owners' Box so far, I'm afraid.

PatsWickedPissah · Aug 15, 2015

Gwedd said:
Cathargo delenda est

Here's hoping that Goodell and his thug monkeys enjoy similar hospitality from Gaius Brady and his legions.

NYJFL et Imperator Delenda Est!

More than willing to see TFB risk missing the 4 games than to back off & let the Evil Empire off the hook.

Tommy's psyche is good with putting EVERYTHING on the line for the win.

So is Kraft Switzerland here?

Off The Grid · Aug 15, 2015

**** on all that "Settlement" talk.

Why negotiate with Scum??

PatsFanSince74 · Aug 15, 2015

PatsWickedPissah said:
NYJFL et Imperator Delenda Est!

More than willing to see TFB risk missing the 4 games than to back off & let the Evil Empire off the hook.

Tommy's psyche is good with putting EVERYTHING on the line for the win.

So is Kraft Switzerland here?

Kraft took himself out of the game in May, so he might as well be in Switzerland.

I couldn't help but think this week how powerful a visage it would have been if a defiant Robert and Jonathan Kraft were seated in the front row with Tom Brady in Judge Berman's court. Berman and Kraft are around the same age and share much in common. But, that would only have served to remind everyone of the team's capitulation instead of the defiance it should have shown from day one.

Mr. Kraft, there's a moment in everyone's life when they have to show who they truly are...sometimes they don't even know that it's occurring...but in the end it is how they are judged.

PatsWickedPissah · Aug 15, 2015

Actually Vichy Kraft is the better analogy.
Then AFTER the war everyone claimed to be part of the Resistance.

PatsFanSince74 · Aug 15, 2015

PatsWickedPissah said:
Actually Vichy Kraft is the better analogy.
Then AFTER the war everyone claimed to be part of the Resistance.

Yes. Well put. I have often said, even to French friends with whom I have developed a relationship of some sort, that the number of members of La Résistance française grew exponentially on D-Day.

Patsfanin Philly · Aug 15, 2015

PatsWickedPissah said:
So is Kraft Switzerland here?

I was thinking of a Quisling unless he backs his words with actions...

McCann thinks this is total war

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