PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

Great article on legal X's and O's facing Judge Berman


Status
Not open for further replies.
Or maybe Judge Berman can do whatever the fu.ck he wants because its literally entirely up to him if he wants to buy the NFL's story or not, and its clear he doesn't. Im sick and tired of the "but the CBA!" crowd. The CBA is not some otherworldly force compelling Berman to act a certain way, even if he doesn't want to. There are enough holes in it and the NFLs case that Berman can do whatever he wants. He's not beholden to the damn thing.

This.

Just because Goodell can serve as the arbitrator doesn't mean that a) he should or b) he did it right, or c) it was legal what he did.

This would require the sports media to do things like "read" and "think critically".

I mean, some of the stuff to read here is long? But it's hardly tough to get through. Kessler's initial filing to Berman read like a novel, for god's sake.
 
So the arbitrator's decision included a deliberate misrepresentation ("lie") regarding a key element of Brady's testimony which the arbitrator cited as something he relied on in his determination that Brady was not being truthful. Bear in mind that when the arbitrator wrote the decision, his expectation was that the hearing would not become public so that his misrepresentation ("lie") would never see the light of day.

Well, as they say, IANAL and I clearly do not understand precisely what is is from a legal standpoint that constitutes "evident partiality." The good law professor finds the NFLPA's case "unpersuasive." Maybe it's just me, but I think the professor is either lacking all of the facts or has an undeveloped sense of fairness and human decency.
 
I just can't believe that a judge does not have the disgression to vacate if he believes the person is innocent and the process to initially find him guilty to be nothing but a sham. There has to be some flexibility there. I suspect this case is so bizarre and unjust that it falls outside of normal cases and that lawyers evaluating it are being too technical and not looking at the bigger picture. The judge was clearly interested in the evidence. But what do I know, I'm not a lawyer.
 
I just can't believe that a judge does not have the disgression to vacate if he believes the person is innocent and the process to initially find him guilty to be nothing but a sham. There has to be some flexibility there. I suspect this case is so bizarre and unjust that it falls outside of normal cases and that lawyers evaluating it are being too technical and not looking at the bigger picture. The judge was clearly interested in the evidence. But what do I know, I'm not a lawyer.

He does, and there is. It's just not in Section 46, which was the section the NFL fought so hard for in the CBA in 2011. It's Section 16 which requires an impartial arbitrator.

The problem a lot of these lawyers and law professors make is, this isn't an appeal which was arbitrated by some neutral entity, it was arbitrated by Roger Goodell.

Roger Goodell is 0 for his last 4 in court.

I would venture to say that they, much like the rest of the sports media, and the rest of NFL fans, haven't bothered to read past the summaries, tweets and ESPN articles.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: JJC
The odds of the NFL losing 4 straight cases overturning Goodell's appeal decision as the rights given to him the CBA is astronomically against it happening based on the sucess rate of these types of cases even being heard by a judge. It just shows how much Goodell abuses his power as given to him in the CBA. The NFL losing one out of four suits filed should be considered a bad batting average.

The NFL has already lost three straight, therefore the odds do not include those three outcomes.

If I flipped heads three times in a row, what are the odds I'll flip heads again?

50/50, and will always be.
 
The NFL has already lost three straight, therefore the odds do not include those three outcomes.

If I flipped heads three times in a row, what are the odds I'll flip heads again?

50/50, and will always be.

Oh, come on. Why would you for a moment think that the court cases were independent events, in the relevant sense of "independent"?

That's even apart from any considerations of direct causality, via deference to precedent and so on.
 
yeah, it kind of worries me a little.
maybe berman's already decided he has to rule for nfl and wants to get in a couple body blows on the way, or rattle nfl into settlement to take him out of the equation.

It's a little worrisome, but he could also be leading to point 1:

1). where the award was procured by corruption, fraud, or undue means;
Could be driving toward the conclusion that the Wells Report was fraudulent, and therefore any punishment based on its findings must be vacated.

That would be a very powerful conclusion that would pretty much kill any "Brady got off on a technicality" talk before it gets a chance to start.
 
No, this was not by any means a "great article on the legal Xs and Os". It was a one-sided article giving voice to a guy who was putting the (legal) case for the NFL.

It goes in two steps.

1. Kurlantzick sustains the Article 46 ("conduct detrimental") claim. Kessler has been trying to argue that Article 46 isn't applicable and such articles as Chatham's seek to back it up. This guy argues that there are important differences between this case and, say, the Petersen case. Ones that are significant enough to make Article 46 applicable. (Sorry, Mr Grid!)

2. He then argues that the courts must defer to the arbitrator (Obergruppenführer Goodell) unless one of four conditions are met.

And those are tightly defined.

So when the OP quotes the article "where there was evident partiality or corruption in the arbitrators" and asks "Could that have been any more clear?" s/he has totally missed the legal point.

It's "evident partiality" if an arbitrator is adjudicating between two parties and is (say) the brother-in-law of one of them. "Corruption", likewise, is the receipt of inducements from one side or the other. The fact that the arbitrator is prejudiced and out to get Brady (as we would all agree is the case) doesn't cut the mustard legally.

So the conclusion of the article is that Brady may be screwed legally.

What's the good news to set against that?

Well, first of all, if that's the legal position as the judge understands it, why is he going into all this stuff about the NFL's evidence? Kurlantzick's explanation (the judge knows that all of this stuff doesn't matter but he's asking the questions anyway because he feels bad at having to rule in a way that upholds an obvious injustice) is bizarre.

Of course, it may be true -- bizarre things happen in courts all the time -- but it's wildly implausible.

At this point, I should say that I personally would MUCH rather have an outcome in which the judge says: "Mr Brady, it breaks my heart, you've obviously been railroaded but there's nothing I can do for you" than one in which (for example) Brady accepts a fine but leaves the question of guilt or innocence moot. Brady's reputation means more to me (and, in the end, I think, to him) than even a four-game suspension.

Still, I think there's another interpretation, the one we get from another sports law professor, Michael McCann. On that interpretation, the judge is asking about the evidence because he's thinking that, even if it's a Section 46 case and Goodell is a legitimate arbitrator, the law won't let him do whatever he likes.

Note that the cases about arbitration Kurlantzick and the NFL are drawing on are all about arbitrators who adjudicate between two parties who are in conflict about the division of costs and benefits (usually money). But in this case Goodell is acting in a quasi-judicial capacity: he's judging wrongdoing on Brady's part. And that's a completely different ball-game.

If McCann is right, Berman asking about the evidence shows that he's concerned whether Jolly Roger has acted reasonably. When he tweets back to RLCarr/Quantum Mechanic "The professor offers sensible reading of situation, but may be overlooking possibility judge views the evidence as part of process." I take the first part of the sentence to be saying "He's another sports law professor and I'm not going to make an enemy I don't need" but the second part contradicts everything Kurlantzick is pushing. It's saying, first, that the judge will look at the fairness of the process (not just whether the adjudicator is "evidently partial") and, second, that building a case on totally inadequate evidence may itself be enough to show that the process is unfair.

In which case, quite simply ... Hallelujah!
 
The NFL has already lost three straight, therefore the odds do not include those three outcomes.

If I flipped heads three times in a row, what are the odds I'll flip heads again?

50/50, and will always be.

The odds remain 50/50 if you assume that you're engaging in a 50/50 proposition.

But if a 10 year old goes to bat against a big league pitcher and strikes out swinging four straight times, you should rightly assume that he's going to strike out next time too. Just because the leaguewide batting average is .230 or so, that doesn't mean that this kid has a 23% chance of geting a hit. He's going to strike out again, because, as the four previous strikeouts have indicated, he is not a .240 hitter. He's in over his head.

The reason why arbitration awards are usually upheld is because most arbitrators are competent and obey the terms of the law and the contracts that they're beholden to. For these reasons, their success rate is not applicable to Goodell.

Goodell is the 10 year old. Getting trounced in court 3 straight times isn't bad luck. It's the result of a pattern of misconduct and indefensible decisions. That pattern has been evident in this case as well, so it's reasonable to expect the same result that he's had the past few times.

I'm staying guarded here, just because I don't want to be disappointed again. Better to just set expectations low and assume a miscarriage of justice is going to occur. But if we're betting on track records, Goodell's personal record is far more relevant than the record of all the other competent arbitrators in different industries that have their awards upheld.
 
Last edited:
yeah, it kind of worries me a little.
maybe berman's already decided he has to rule for nfl and wants to get in a couple body blows on the way, or rattle nfl into settlement to take him out of the equation.

I don't think Federal judges operate like that. He may have an opinion but he is not going to game the process by dropping hints or worrying about sending vague messages. He will rule on the law and use precedents as a strong guide. While the NFL may want to believe that Article 46 gives them all the cover they need, the courts has consistently ruled otherwise. And from what we have seen here, TB's case is by far the most aggrieved of any of them.
 
The NFL has already lost three straight, therefore the odds do not include those three outcomes.

If I flipped heads three times in a row, what are the odds I'll flip heads again?

50/50, and will always be.

The odds are not a flip of a coin in these cases. The decks are stacked in the League's favor. The federal laws are such that the NFL are supposed to win these cases 80-90% of the time they go to court (with the judge throwing the case out most of the time even before they hear it). The odds of them losing three cases like these in a row are about as much as me winning Powerball.

I am not talking about the odds of them losing this case after losing the last three. They are irrelevant. The odds of Brady losing should be 80-90%. Most experts think that is his chance of winning based on the arguments and how the cases has been going is more like 80-90% when it should be 10-20%.

Flip of a coin odds are only when the chances of either outcome is always 50/50. The laws in this case make this anything but a 50/50 outcome. Goodell's abuse of power though makes what should be slam dunk wins for the NFL into a string of losses in a row. That is unheard of.
 
Despite what this professor says, let's remember that after the hearing, Michael McCann also tweeted this.Screen Shot 2015-08-14 at 7.33.13 PM.png
 
Between all of this legal this and CBA that, could it be that the judge simply cares about justice??
 
Between all of this legal this and CBA that, could it be that the judge simply cares about justice??

Inasmuch as he can do something about it within the constructs of existing law.

He can't just say "**** the law" and do whatever he wants, no.
 
I'm just posting dissenting opinions to make myself feel better after reading that professor's take.
Screen Shot 2015-08-14 at 7.55.56 PM.png
 
The odds are not a flip of a coin in these cases. The decks are stacked in the League's favor. The federal laws are such that the NFL are supposed to win these cases 80-90% of the time they go to court (with the judge throwing the case out most of the time even before they hear it). The odds of them losing three cases like these in a row are about as much as me winning Powerball.

I am not talking about the odds of them losing this case after losing the last three. They are irrelevant. The odds of Brady losing should be 80-90%. Most experts think that is his chance of winning based on the arguments and how the cases has been going is more like 80-90% when it should be 10-20%.

Flip of a coin odds are only when the chances of either outcome is always 50/50. The laws in this case make this anything but a 50/50 outcome. Goodell's abuse of power though makes what should be slam dunk wins for the NFL into a string of losses in a row. That is unheard of.

Actually, the fact that the NFL lost three times in a row improves the chances for the union, because a lot of this will be based on precedent. That is not a statistical argument.

You are proposing that this is exactly like other labor cases and...

The odds of the NFL losing 4 straight cases overturning Goodell's appeal decision as the rights given to him the CBA is astronomically against it happening based on the sucess rate of these types of cases even being heard by a judge.

If you are not making the fallacious statistical argument that the 4th decision is "due" to be one way because 3 previous decisions went the other way, then I misunderstand you.
 
The article, though skeptical of Brady's position, does mention several areas where Brady has a case. If the judge believes Brady is innocent, wouldn't he grab onto those items, expand on them and craft a defensible opinion? I've heard the law is an ass, but what judge wants to rule against an innocent party if that can be avoided in any way?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: JJC
Status
Not open for further replies.


TRANSCRIPT: Eliot Wolf’s Pre-Draft Press Conference 4/18/24
Thursday Patriots Notebook 4/18: News and Notes
Wednesday Patriots Notebook 4/17: News and Notes
Tuesday Patriots Notebook 4/16: News and Notes
Monday Patriots Notebook 4/15: News and Notes
Patriots News 4-14, Mock Draft 3.0, Gilmore, Law Rally For Bill 
Potential Patriot: Boston Globe’s Price Talks to Georgia WR McConkey
Friday Patriots Notebook 4/12: News and Notes
Not a First Round Pick? Hoge Doubles Down on Maye
Thursday Patriots Notebook 4/11: News and Notes
Back
Top