RB Situation

What do people base their reviews of running backs on? Last year Blount averaged 4.4 ypc, good for 13th in the league, and Grey averaged 4.6, good for 11th. The year before, when Blount was with the Pats all year, he averaged 5.0 ypc, which would have been good for 4th best in the league.

With the Pats last year, Blount averaged 4.7 ypc.

Blounts career average is 4.6 ypc, Eric ****erson's is 4.4 ypc. ****erson also only had one year where he ran for greater than a 4.6 ypc. Blount has had 2 years with a 5.0 average.

TommyD4207 said:

Blocking, lack of speed, but that's more of a minor concern. Ability to catch, but again, in this offense, a minor concern.

There's really no reason, sheer talent-wise, Gray shouldn't be starting over Blount. Speed's ok, decent between the tackles, decent vision. And it's not like Blount is a superior pass-blocker or anything, or out of the backfield (although he's got pretty ok hands).

Also, he's got waaaaaaay less tread on the tires than Blount does.

So my question is, "why doesn't he start". And that, combined with the fact that this team overreacts when it comes to ball security in the past - the only explanation is they're afraid he's going to fumble.

Blount can return kickoffs too, but that's more of a "why you stay on the roster" than "why you start".

Click to expand...

Good discussion. This is what I want to get to.

IMO Blount is a bit more nimble & quicker than Gray. He is also bigger, breaks tackles better and more experienced. I think their speed is the same and maybe Blount has a little more straight line. Those are the reasons Blount > Gray.

Catching, blocking, etc I agree aren't major reasons he is behind Blount.

With that said, I think Gray can be a 1000 yd guy in this offense. Hell if BJGE can, so can Gray.

That does not mean he is the next Corey Dillion.

robertweathers said:

Good discussion. This is what I want to get to.

IMO Blount is a bit more nimble & quicker than Gray. He is also bigger, breaks tackles better and more experienced. I think their speed is the same and maybe Blount has a little more straight line. Those are the reasons Blount > Gray.

Catching, blocking, etc I agree aren't major reasons he is behind Blount.

With that said, I think Gray can be a 1000 yd guy in this offense. Hell if BJGE can, so can Gray.

That does not mean he is the next Corey Dillion.

Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more. None of these guys are Corey Dillon. Hell, none of these guys are Stevan Ridley. Blount has more wiggle, for sure, and he's obviously quite a bit bigger than Gray.

Maybe that alone is why he starts? I dunno. Experience, maybe?

But again, it's not like any of these guys are superstars, they're not - but in this offense they don't have to be.

I'd like them to be a bit MORE than Benny and his 3.3 ypc. But they don't really have to be.

Did you know Jonas Gray led the team in rushing last year? And that Edelman outrushed Sudden Binky Brandon "JAG-on-my-best-day" Bolden?

Only Bolden rushed for less than 4.0 ypc last year - and I think that's all they're really looking for. As a team, they ran for 1727 yds last year and 13 TDs (a 3.9 avg) and were actually 9th in the league in rushing yards. Nobody had even 100 carries.

So to me, these are actually minor quibbles. But that said, anyone who's attached to the Jonas Gray train at this point, are the same ones who were attached to the Blount Train, the Benny Train, etc etc.

There has been one RB with legitimate RB "skills" since Corey Dillon here, and that's Stevan Ridley. And yes, he's gone, and there was no way the Patriots were going to sign him for any sort of money. But he'll emerge as the starter for the Jets if he's healthy, and he's going to have a good year - and probably at least one good game against us.

It's not the end of the world, they can obviously patch it all together with JAGs no problem. But there's no need pretending that Jonas Gray is any more than that, either.

I thought White looked pretty good as a pass-catching back last night. Obviously he didn't look good running the rock, but it's not like Vereen was doing that - he barely ever actually ran it unless it was a patented McDaniels Shotgun Draw(tm).

I think White might be an okay Vereen replacement. He's not quite the athlete Vereen was, but it's not like Vereen was the #1 target. As long as White can pickup the blitz and be reliable catching the ball on third down, he should be ok.

I think that Blount is simply a better RB, in all aspects of the position. Perhaps folks really believe that Gray's reps last year were 100% due to his being late to one practice. I don't think that this is the case. I think that the team didn't think that Gray deserved any reps, based on his practice and playing time; and yes the team watched the tapes of his 200 yard game.

So, the team asked him to work on a few things. He lost a bit of weight, and worked on elusiveness. Many here thought that he would be beaten out by Gaffney, Cadet or someone we signed.

I don't think that we need to overblow the issue. Gray looked good enough to start Game 1, and good enough to make the 53 and be the backup to Blount. For now, that is a major step forward in his career. Congrats to Gray.

Ross12 said:

I thought White looked pretty good as a pass-catching back last night. Obviously he didn't look good running the rock, but it's not like Vereen was doing that - he barely ever actually ran it unless it was a patented McDaniels Shotgun Draw(tm).

I think White might be an okay Vereen replacement. He's not quite the athlete Vereen was, but it's not like Vereen was the #1 target. As long as White can pickup the blitz and be reliable catching the ball on third down, he should be ok.

Click to expand...

I still don't see all that much fight in the guy. Is that something you can teach? I guess that's why BB still has him here.

I still think the 3rd down job goes to either Cadet or Lewis, myself, assuming they can get on the field.

mgteich said:

I think that Blount is simply a better RB, in all aspects of the position. Perhaps folks really believe that Gray's reps last year were 100% due to his being late to one practice. I don't think that this is the case. I think that the team didn't think that Gray deserved any reps, based on his practice and playing time; and yes the team watched the tapes of his 200 yard game.

So, the team asked him to work on a few things. He lost a bit of weight, and worked on elusiveness. Many here thought that he would be beaten out by Gaffney, Cadet or someone we signed.

I don't think that we need to overblow the issue. Gray looked good enough to start Game 1, and good enough to make the 53 and be the backup to Blount. For now, that is a major step forward in his career. Congrats to Gray.

Click to expand...

Agree 100%. Gray lost reps last year not because of the oversleeping incident but because they got Blount. Blount stepped in and was immediately higher on the depth chart. Camp and preseason is for competition, but Blount has by many accounts had a good camp, so I don't really see why he would lose his standing. That 201 yard game was the result of going 6 OL on a terrible run D. That being said, I like Gray, I liked his speed on the TD last night, and I think he'll get something like 2/3 the carries Blount gets. Expect something like 800 yards from Blount, 550 from Gray, 300 from Bolden + maybe 75 catches for 650 yards between Bolden and White.

Elijah said:

Agree 100%. Gray lost reps last year not because of the oversleeping incident but because they got Blount. Blount stepped in and was immediately higher on the depth chart. Camp and preseason is for competition, but Blount has by many accounts had a good camp, so I don't really see why he would lose his standing. That 201 yard game was the result of going 6 OL on a terrible run D. That being said, I like Gray, I liked his speed on the TD last night, and I think he'll get something like 2/3 the carries Blount gets. Expect something like 800 yards from Blount, 550 from Gray, 300 from Bolden + maybe 75 catches for 650 yards between Bolden and White.

Click to expand...

I generally agree. I think that you are bit high on Gray's number of reps, unless Blount is injured.

Elijah said:

Agree 100%. Gray lost reps last year not because of the oversleeping incident but because they got Blount. Blount stepped in and was immediately higher on the depth chart. Camp and preseason is for competition, but Blount has by many accounts had a good camp, so I don't really see why he would lose his standing. That 201 yard game was the result of going 6 OL on a terrible run D. That being said, I like Gray, I liked his speed on the TD last night, and I think he'll get something like 2/3 the carries Blount gets. Expect something like 800 yards from Blount, 550 from Gray, 300 from Bolden + maybe 75 catches for 650 yards between Bolden and White.

Click to expand...

Gray was benched because he mouthed off on Twitter after he was sent home. Blount allowed them to leave him on the bench to grow up, but BB didn't outright drop him. I take that as a positive as far as Gray is concerned.

I think we'll see both Gray and Blount used a lot this year. Who gets the most carries will very from game to game. No telling on that end. Gray seems like a douche bag and Blount is Blount, so either on of them could piss the coaches off and end up in the doghouse.

Sticky Caulk said:

Gray was benched because he mouthed off on Twitter after he was sent home. Blount allowed them to leave him on the bench to grow up, but BB didn't outright drop him. I take that as a positive as far as Gray is concerned.

I think we'll see both Gray and Blount used a lot this year. Who gets the most carries will very from game to game. No telling on that end. Gray seems like a douche bag and Blount is Blount, so either on of them could piss the coaches off and end up in the doghouse.

Click to expand...

This is the first I've heard of Gray mouthing off on Twitter or being a douchebag. I just did a quick Google and couldn't find anything...I've never really read anything about character concerns for him.

I really liked what i saw from gray. Not just the td but he seemed to pick up where he left off - getting everything out of each run and always moving forward. Looks faster too obviously.

Hopefully its a 50-50 split with him and blount, this kid definitely deserves caarries.

Elijah said:

This is the first I've heard of Gray mouthing off on Twitter or being a douchebag. I just did a quick Google and couldn't find anything...I've never really read anything about character concerns for him.

Click to expand...

That tweet was made after he was sent home from practice. Showing up late is something that can happen to anyone. Sometimes you really do have a valid excuse. But sometimes you have a boss that isn't willing to budge on the consequences. He can't be all that bright thinking that a BB complaint on social media would work out for him.

Gray was viewed as a JAG before BB gave him a shot. He didn't get starts until his senior year and then he had a bad injury (ACL I think) after that. Couldn't stick with a team beyond camp before New England graduated him off the PS. I have to question the personality of a player that reacts that way. As long as he plays well, I don't really care and maybe he just had a one-time tantrum. Who knows.

Sticky Caulk said:

That tweet was made after he was sent home from practice. Showing up late is something that can happen to anyone. Sometimes you really do have a valid excuse. But sometimes you have a boss that isn't willing to budge on the consequences. He can't be all that bright thinking that a BB complaint on social media would work out for him.

Gray was viewed as a JAG before BB gave him a shot. He didn't get starts until his senior year and then he had a bad injury (ACL I think) after that. Couldn't stick with a team beyond camp before New England graduated him off the PS. I have to question the personality of a player that reacts that way. As long as he plays well, I don't really care and maybe he just had a one-time tantrum. Who knows.

Click to expand...

Huh, yeah, that tweet is unbecoming...

Are you guys sure that tweet was in reference to bb/patriots org though? It sounds like it also could have been referring to media/fans once the news got out.

PATSYLICIOUS said:

Are you guys sure that tweet was in reference to bb/patriots org though? It sounds like it also could have been referring to media/fans once the news got out.

Click to expand...

Does that make it better?

Sticky Caulk said:

That tweet was made after he was sent home from practice. Showing up late is something that can happen to anyone. Sometimes you really do have a valid excuse. But sometimes you have a boss that isn't willing to budge on the consequences. He can't be all that bright thinking that a BB complaint on social media would work out for him.

Gray was viewed as a JAG before BB gave him a shot. He didn't get starts until his senior year and then he had a bad injury (ACL I think) after that. Couldn't stick with a team beyond camp before New England graduated him off the PS. I have to question the personality of a player that reacts that way. As long as he plays well, I don't really care and maybe he just had a one-time tantrum. Who knows.

Click to expand...

Could be that they girl he slept with told him to get lost once she found out BB sent him home.

TommyD4207 said:

Does that make it better?

Click to expand...

Its not 'good' but its much less worse than opening your mouth about the coach. If he truly was talking about bb im suprised hes still here.

Plus i think if were going to criticize someone the facts and context should be straight.

I think White was pretty impressive last night with running after the catch. His hands seemed good as well. I didn't notice how his pass protection was, but if it's pretty good, I think he is the lead candidate now to replace Vareen. I think Gray is a good backup who can come in and fill in nicely if needed. Blount is the obvious number 1, when healthy and back from suspension.

ashley1992 said:

I think White was pretty impressive last night with running after the catch. His hands seemed good as well. I didn't notice how his pass protection was, but if it's pretty good, I think he is the lead candidate now to replace Vareen. I think Gray is a good backup who can come in and fill in nicely if needed. Blount is the obvious number 1, when healthy and back from suspension.

Click to expand...

I watched White in Pass protection and he was doing better than some of the 3rd string linemen..

I believe BB and Josh fed White the same way they fed Boyce....to see if they can get the job done. IMO neither did. Not one NFL team will respect the run when White is in the backfield. On the other hand...Bolden has proven he can run when called upon with 4.9 YPC in 2012 and 2013 with a total of 139 attempts and 634 yards rushing from 2012-2014.

He also has 25 receptions. On the other hand White has a total of 38 yards rushing and 5 receptions in his career. I see this as very similar to Boyce vs Gibson at WR. Boyce has done nothing in the NFL to prove himself while Gibson has 2711 yards receiving. Its not even a debate. Bolden is superior in every facet of the game: Special Teams, blocking, rushing, receiving.

Bolden
http://www.nfl.com/player/brandonbolden/2532797/careerstats
Rushing-yds Receiving-yds
634 171

White
http://www.nfl.com/player/jameswhite/2543773/careerstats
Rushing-yds Receiving-yds
38 23

White is still a work in progress....Bolden is not IMO.

ADDENDUM
"Bolden has been the main man for Tom Brady as the pass catching/blocking back during the past three practices" http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/..._has_emerged_as_leader_for_shane_vereens_role .