Opinion: The NFL thinks Berman is bluffing

billdog3484 said:

can someone else just respond to this.i just cant deal

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Too over your head?

Or maybe you should call Michael McCann and Alan Milstein on the finer points of the law because you clearly know more than them too.

Or maybe you should take a remedial english class and learn how to write in complete sentences, use proper grammar, and how to capitalize. I love how people try to act mentally superior than someone else on a message board while making writing mistakes a third grader wouldn't make.

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

Berman's questions yesterday were aimed to make the NFL feel two feet tall. He brought up issues like Brady's better performance in the second half, although we know that doesn't really have much to do with the law or process.

The NFL's "bad faith", absurd offer that Brady must admit guilt and accept the Wells Report makes me believe they think they are going to win the case. In other words, they think that Berman is trying to soften them up because they (this is what they believe) have the stronger case and would need more public scrutiny in order to come up with better settlement terms. It seemed clear by their answers yesterday that the NFL didn't think they needed to do a whole lot of arguing and that this is an open-and-shut case, and that Berman also knows it but is trying to get them to settle since the law is in the favor even if justice is not.

Again, that is the perspective I think the NFL adopts based on their clear unwillingness to budge on a settlement.

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The question about 2nd half performance is the judge questioning the intent of deflating footballs. It is very relevant. The NFL's unwillingness is about avoiding another defamation lawsuit. The law is hardly in favor of them.

Goodell only cares about his image. They don't care if the suspension is upheld or not. I mean they would prefer it upheld given the choice, but it really is meaningless to them. The NFL has already won, they wanted to make something out of nothing and harm the Patriots/Brady's reputation. If the penalties stick, great and if not, still mission accomplished. NFL agreeing to settle to no suspension in their minds would restore some reputation to Brady and detract some from the NFL, which is what is most important to them. What's so despicable about all this is what is actually fair and sensible is not a factor the NFL is using at all, it's all about shameless legal tactics (first filing in New York), PR stunts (leaking false information), and a sham inestigation. This is as ugly and corrupt as it gets.

Rob0729 said:

That is different though. You are talking 9 judges each asking questions in the Obamacare case. I wasn't following that case. But if say it was Scalia who was slamming the President's lawyers with questions, it was a clear indication on which way he voted. Every judge on the Supreme Court in the Obamacare case voted exactly how people expected them to vote except for one.

In fact, many people felt that Justice Kennedy tipped his hand on which way he ended up voting in his questions to the plantiffs.

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I was thinking of Roberts, as he asked tough questions in the first case, but voted for it. (edit: if I recall correctly, and also I should admit I basically know nothing about law and am not a lawyer, judge, law clerk, stenographer, courtroom artist, bailiff, or Judge Wapner -- I am just repeating something that seems reasonable, based on some NPR story I heard 3 years ago )

ChoWZa said:

Goodell only cares about his image. They don't care if the suspension is upheld or not. I mean they would prefer it upheld given the choice, but it really is meaningless to them. The NFL has already won, they wanted to make something out of nothing and harm the Patriots/Brady's reputation. If the penalties stick, great and if not, still mission accomplished. NFL agreeing to settle to no suspension in their minds would restore some reputation to Brady and detract some from the NFL, which is what is most important to them. What's so despicable about all this is what is actually fair and sensible is not a factor the NFL is using at all, it's all about shameless legal tactics (first filing in New York), PR stunts (leaking false information), and a sham inestigation. This is as ugly and corrupt as it gets.

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I disagree with this because the last few weeks, it has been more of the NFL being on trial in the court and the court of public opinion than Brady. Opinions on Brady may not have changed, but the media has turned on Goodell and the NFL. That is not good for him and I am sure the owners are not happy that with a few weeks before the start of the season the national storyline is how the NFL got their asses kicked in court yesterday.

Rob0729 said:

I am sure the owners are not happy that with a few weeks before the start of the season the national storyline is how the NFL got their asses kicked in court yesterday.

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That will only be remembered if the NFL decision is overturned significantly. Again, the judge could have just been playing devil's advocate, trying to feel out the most significant weaknesses of each side, but now he is going to process all the information he gained from that fact-finding, depth-charge mission.

neuronet said:

I was thinking of Roberts, as he asked tough questions in the first case, but voted for it. (edit: if I recall correctly, and also I should admit I basically know nothing about law and am not a lawyer, judge, law clerk, stenographer, courtroom artist, bailiff, or Judge Wapner)

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Yeah, I mixed up Kennedy and Roberts on this one. Kennedy did show his hand that he was voting to uphold the law. Roberts was a surprise, but that may be just because of his voting history more than the line of questions he asked during the hearings. But again, I didn't follow the case.

ChoWZa said:

Goodell only cares about his image. They don't care if the suspension is upheld or not.

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For some reason this went through my head when I read your post.

Helmsman: "Captain, the ship is sinking."

Captain: "Helmsman, the ship is not sinking, the water level is just getting higher. and seeing how this is a boat, we can float on water no matter how high the water gets."

Helmsman: "Are you saying it doesn't matter that the water is getting higher?"

Captain: "Correct, we'll be fine."

Most of us seem to understand that the water getting higher means the ship is taking on water and the water level is rising in comparison to the inside of the boat. the Captain, remains oblivious and can only hold to their version of events and seems incapable of accepting reality. This is really what Goodell, in my mind, is how Goodell is behaving (even when the water is starting to soak his shoes).

neuronet said:

That will only be remembered if the NFL decision is overturned significantly. Again, the judge could have just been playing devil's advocate, trying to feel out the most significant weaknesses of each side, but now he is going to process all the information he gained from that fact-finding, depth-charge mission.

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IDK, I don't think the owners like how the league has looked the last few weeks. I still don't think the owners are behind Goodell as much as the rumors suggest. I think this is just another nail in his coffin. He won't lose his job for this, but it will just make it easier for the owners to turn on him the next controversy.

Rob0729 said:

IDK, I don't think the owners like how the league has looked the last few weeks. I still don't think the owners are behind Goodell as much as the rumors suggest. I think this is just another nail in his coffin. He won't lose his job for this, but it will just make it easier for the owners to turn on him the next controversy.

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I hope you are right. I am just pretty much pessimistic about anything pro-Patriots, anti-Goodell at this point. I thought Wells was going to give an independent impartial report, after all.

If their idea of "good faith settlement negotiation" is using the proceeding to re-negotiate the CBA to grant them even more power, they must be very confident that the judge is going to affirm their patently absurd arbitration award.

This kind of arrogance simply cannot go unpunished . . .

Rob0729 said:

If this is the case, then I am wrong on this point. I guess I took it out of context although that is easy on Twitter.

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Don't get me wrong, I think Berman will vacate and he's leaning that way as well. Just no chance that he would tell someone which way he is going to rule unless it was lawyers from either side.

I don't think Berman is tied to this idea that Judges shouldn't touch arbitration decisions and that he will rule on the case based on its facts as opposed to its nature.

article 46...such garbage.
so roger can suspend you for anything/become the arbitrator/then uphold his own suspension.
go to court and site article 46 and win the legal battle.

.....genius really. and the nflpa are fools for agreeing to this system.

Goodell either wins or says "Welp, I tried." Compromise to the level Brady wants would be tantamount to saying the Wells Report was wrong.

Brady either wins or says "Welp, I tried." Compromise to the level the NFL wants would mean Brady is admitting perjury.

Nobody's bluffing, the only thing either side can't do is compromise.

TriplecHamp said:

Don't get me wrong, I think Berman will vacate and he's leaning that way as well. Just no chance that he would tell someone which way he is going to rule unless it was lawyers from either side.

I don't think Berman is tied to this idea that Judges shouldn't touch arbitration decisions and that he will rule on the case based on its facts as opposed to its nature.

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Actually, read the quote I took from McCann's article. I did not take the quote out of context/ You actually did.

billdog3484 said:

The NFL filed the case to UPHOLD the arbitration decision Goodell already made...they didnt get anywhere other than hear arguments by both parties on why or why not to uphold. they havent gotten anywhere. so when you say its unusual for cases to get this far thats just inaccurate. they havent gotten anywhere yet. its unusual to overturn, not to hear a case and make a decision

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???
The NFL has based their case almost entirely on 'we followed the process as we are obligated to under the CBA. Goodell can decide it anyway he wants and dole out punishment anyway he wants because that is what the CBA allows". Yet didn't the judge delve into areas far outside that argument, very far? He asked about evidence of guilt. What does the certainty of guilt have to do with the price of tea in China when the case filed is about the NFL's contractual power to make decision however they see fit and regardless of whether others see it as unfair? Seems to me the areas the Judge delved into clearly pretty far are outside of the argument the NFL filed/is putting forth.

As a side note, why did the judge do this? I can only see two rational explanations: (1) he is highlighting to the NFL their case of guilt (not of contract) is weak and they should consider settling out of justness and/or to avoid an ugly legal fight. (2) the Judge has likely already decided the NFL's contractual argument doesn't fly and he stepped away from their contractual argument as a process of dressing them down in preparation for what losing judgment will be coming the NFL's way.

Rob0729 said:

And the NFLPA filed a countersuit to vacate the ruling. The judge yesterday said he has accepted the case to go to litigation that is far farther than most arbitration cases get. Most cases are dismissed before they judge even hears arguments or accepts the case.

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looks like manion spoke for me.

the NFL filed to confirm the decision. that wasnt going to be dismissed. when the NFLPA came and argued (in writing) there was an impartial arbitrator and that due process was denied the judge was going to listen.

so again...you dont know what you are talking about.

billdog3484 said:

looks like manion spoke for me.

the NFL filed to confirm the decision. that wasnt going to be dismissed. when the NFLPA came and argued (in writing) there was an impartial arbitrator and that due process was denied the judge was going to listen.

so again...you dont know what you are talking about.

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What's a manion?

Gronkowski123 said:

article 46...such garbage.
so roger can suspend you for anything/become the arbitrator/then uphold his own suspension.
go to court and site article 46 and win the legal battle.

.....genius really. and the nflpa are fools for agreeing to this system.

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I agree, 46 is a bitter pill to swallow... perhaps Kessler should bring in Marino as a consultant to show them how to properly defeat the 46.

Clonamery said:

What's a manion?

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top lawyer who appears on wEEI. came on this morning and said it wasnt surprising that the facts of case were brought up by judge, not just the law. according to the expert robo this was a big win for nflpa and brady because this usually doesnt happen...just doesnt get the process and talks like hes an expert...laughable