Opinion: The NFL thinks Berman is bluffing

Rob0729 said:

The hurdle isn't that high if a judge is willing to hear the case. The hurdle is getting a judge to hear the case. The fact that Judge Berman is hearing the case is a huge win for Brady. When people say it is really hard to win a arbitration case, it is usually because most of them never get this far.

And it is not uncommon for a Judge wanting a settlement. Most judges would rather force a settlement than hear the case in matters liek this.

Nothing is a guarantee, but Michael McCann did say that his lawyer friend who has appeared in front of Judge Berman many times said from his experience, Berman is definitely going to overturn the suspension if it goes to judgement.

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ok, youre telling me the standard to overturn an arbitration isnt high? HAHAH ok. you are wrong

youre telling me its unusual for people to meet in court after there is a filing to uphold the decision? HAHA again wrong.

as for Michael McCann's friend saying the judge DEFINITELY will overturn the decision...thats just absurd.

Personally I think it is 100% going to court. It looks better for both sides to lose than to take half a loaf at this point. And looking good is more important to both sides that getting the best deal they can right now IMO.

As for who will win this case. I have no idea. I think Brady has a good chance though depending on how the judge interrupts the CBA. The CBA clearly good Goodell a lot of power but it is not infinite and moving the goal post like he has and making this punishment out of line with past punishments for similar infractions are not nothing.

The thing is Goodell is not allowed to punish Brady retroactively which he arguably has. The cooperation issue was not brought up till after that fact and is now being held against Brady and sited in part of his punishment. That could be the very thing that wins it for Brady.

Goodell is not required to be independent but he is required to stick to a set of rules for this process and not change them as he goes to fit his fancy like it appears he has.

billdog3484 said:

in my opinion, Goodell might feel like he has no choice but to stay firm. anything other than a victory for the NFL and he will look absolutely awful. may lose his job unless he gets an outright win

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You have to know when to fold, you cannot keep it going if there is "absolute disaster" on the horizon, when you can settle for "disaster" now..

Either way Goodell seems like he might be on thin ice.. and his time may be limited, so any acts might be that of a desperate man..

billdog3484 said:

ok, youre telling me the standard to overturn an arbitration isnt high? HAHAH ok. you are wrong

youre telling me its unusual for people to meet in court after there is a filing to uphold the decision? HAHA again wrong.

as for Michael McCann's friend saying the judge DEFINITELY will overturn the decision...thats just absurd.

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I am not saying that isn't high. I am saying the hardest hurdle is to get the judge to even hear the case. Most of the time, judges won't even hear the case. Ha! Ha! And I am right.

And how can I be wrong about a point that I never argued? When did I ever say "its unusual for people to meet in court after there is a filing to uphold the decision"? I said it isn't unusual for a judge to pressure a settlement.

Alan Milstein, who's litigated against NFL and tried cases before Judge Berman, told me: “Berman will absolutely vacate Brady's suspension.”

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https://twitter.com/McCannSportsLaw/status/631622331513860096

I admit I was wrong. Milstein said absolutely, not definitely.

Here is Milstein's bio. He is a very talented and experience lawyer. Based on your grammatical, punctuation, and capitalization inaccuracies in your posts, I am guessing your legal knowledge is limited compared to his:

http://www.sskrplaw.com/lawyer-attorney-1443071.html

Rob0729 said:

I am not saying that isn't high. I am saying the hardest hurdle is to get the judge to even hear the case. Ha! Ha! And I am right.

And how can I be wrong about a point that I never argued? When did I ever say "its unusual for people to meet in court after there is a filing to uphold the decision".



https://twitter.com/McCannSportsLaw/status/631622331513860096

I admit I was wrong. Milstein said absolutely, not definitely.

Here is Milstein's bio. He is a very talented and experience lawyer. Based on your grammatical and capitalization inaccuracies in your posts, I am guessing your legal knowledge is limited:

http://www.sskrplaw.com/lawyer-attorney-1443071.html

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to suggest they will absolutely overturn is just ridiculous. you can have the biggest slam dunk and get a decision against you. here, NFLPA has opposite of slam dunk, the burden of overturning is extremely high....so you can quote whoever you want. im sure i can find 1,000 attorney who think they will uphold...and also 1,000 attorneys who think they will reverse

Have we confirmed that NFL lawyers are claiming that this section of the player's contract is the basis for Goodell's authority suspend Brady under the CBA?:

"15. INTEGRITY OF GAME. Player recognizes the detriment to the League and
professional football that would result from impairment of public confidence in the honest
and orderly conduct of NFL games or the integrity and good character of NFL players.
Player therefore acknowledges his awareness that if he accepts a bribe or agrees to throw
or fix an NFL game; fails to promptly report a bribe offer or an attempt to throw or fix
an NFL game; bets on an NFL game; knowingly associates with gamblers or gambling
activity; uses or provides other players with stimulants or other drugs for the purpose of
attempting to enhance on-field performance; or is guilty of any other form of conduct
reasonably judged by the League Commissioner to be detrimental to the League or
professional football, the Commissioner will have the right, but only after giving Player the
opportunity for a hearing at which he may be represented by counsel of his choice, to
fine Player in a reasonable amount; to suspend Player for a period certain or indefinitely;
and/or to terminate this contract."

Like I pointed out in another thread, it has a standard of "reasonably judged" which would seem to invite inquiry on the merits of the case itself and not simply the procedure used by the commissioner. Am I wrong?

billdog3484 said:

to suggest they will absolutely overturn is just ridiculous. you can have the biggest slam dunk and get a decision against you. here, NFLPA has opposite of slam dunk, the burden of overturning is extremely high....so you can quote whoever you want. im sure i can find 1,000 attorney who think they will uphold...and also 1,000 attorneys who think they will reverse

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It is his opinion. I am sure he knows that anything is possible, but he knows Judge Berman better than you or I and he might be able to tell which way Judge Berman is going to rule based on his questions or demeanor. He probably knows that Berman has a tell that lets him know which way he is leaning.

I have a friend who is a lawyer and he said there are just judges that he can tell whether he is going to win a case within an hour or two in the court room because he knows them well enough to know how they conduct their court room and their tendencies when they are leaning one way or another.

BobDigital said:

It looks better for both sides to lose than to take half a loaf at this point. And looking good is more important to both sides that getting the best deal they can right now IMO.

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We have Bingo. That's the barrier -- barriers actually -- any settlement has to overcome.

More specifically, the "NFL" side cares about Goodell and Pash looking good. Goodell may not be at as much risk of getting fired as we hope, but Pash's career is in severe trouble right now.

• Goodell just hired a COO over Pash.
• Pash is the obvious fall guy for legal screw-ups, should Goodell need to jettison somebody to save his butt.
• Pash was the #1 target of Kraft's TC-opening screed.

Rob0729 said:

And how can I be wrong about a point that I never argued? When did I ever say "its unusual for people to meet in court after there is a filing to uphold the decision"? I said it isn't unusual for a judge to pressure a settlement.

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YOU SAID: When people say it is really hard to win a arbitration case, it is usually because most of them never get this far.

thats your quote..

Rob0729 said:

I am not saying that isn't high. I am saying the hardest hurdle is to get the judge to even hear the case. Most of the time, judges won't even hear the case. Ha! Ha! And I am right.

And how can I be wrong about a point that I never argued? When did I ever say "its unusual for people to meet in court after there is a filing to uphold the decision"? I said it isn't unusual for a judge to pressure a settlement.



https://twitter.com/McCannSportsLaw/status/631622331513860096

I admit I was wrong. Milstein said absolutely, not definitely.

Here is Milstein's bio. He is a very talented and experience lawyer. Based on your grammatical, punctuation, and capitalization inaccuracies in your posts, I am guessing your legal knowledge is limited compared to his:

http://www.sskrplaw.com/lawyer-attorney-1443071.html

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It kind of makes me uncomfortable when a lawyer not directly involved in the case publicly predicts what the judge "absolutely" will do. It seems presumptuous in most cases and it's almost like daring the judge to rule otherwise.

The judge was so tough on the NFL because he NFL's best settlement offer was

"Brady, admit that you ordered it done (that you have committed perjury), accept the Wells report and its conclusions in their entirety, apologize for your wrongdoings, then ask us very nicely with pretty-please and sugar on top to reduce your sentence a little. We may do it, but we may not. Our way or nothing."

Thus the judge can see that the NFL office is made of arrogant a-holes that won't even listen to HIM when he asks for compromise.

The judge went easy on Brady's team, since they so willingly offered up a concession right off the bat, that TB indeed should have/ could have been more cooperative with Wells. Thus a fine for lack of cooperation is the NFLPA's compromise position as TB's punishment, not for wrongdoing, but for not fully cooperating.

Non Pats fans may say that this is isn't much of a concession, but it's a whole hell of a lot more ground than the NFL was willing to budge on, and the judge told them he noticed. LOUDLY. If they are too stupid to hear it, that's good.

billdog3484 said:

YOU SAID: When people say it is really hard to win a arbitration case, it is usually because most of them never get this far.

thats your quote..

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Ummmm.... You do realize litigation on the case started yesterday? Judge Berman asked both sides if they could start litigation immediately and run it concurrently negotiations. So you are wrong. I never said it.

Rob0729 said:

Ummmm.... You do realize litigation on the case started yesterday? Judge Berman asked both sides if they could start litigation immediately and run it concurrently negotiations. So you are wrong.

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The NFL filed the case to UPHOLD the arbitration decision Goodell already made...they didnt get anywhere other than hear arguments by both parties on why or why not to uphold. they havent gotten anywhere. so when you say its unusual for cases to get this far thats just inaccurate. they havent gotten anywhere yet. its unusual to overturn, not to hear a case and make a decision

billdog3484 said:

ok, youre telling me the standard to overturn an arbitration isnt high? HAHAH ok. you are wrong

youre telling me its unusual for people to meet in court after there is a filing to uphold the decision? HAHA again wrong.

as for Michael McCann's friend saying the judge DEFINITELY will overturn the decision...thats just absurd.

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I think the quote you're speaking to is being taken out of context. Its not a matter of him deciding on it as if he's going to vacate or affirm but rather speaking to the idea that he's a judicially active judge who will in fact vacate the award as opposed to simply affirming an arbitrators decision to not set a dangerous precedent.

Berman isn't paying any mind to the previous 66/68 cases which were affirmed but rather treating this case as its own.

billdog3484 said:

The NFL filed the case to UPHOLD the arbitration decision Goodell already made...they didnt get anywhere other than hear arguments by both parties on why or why not to uphold. they havent gotten anywhere. so when you say its unusual for cases to get this far thats just inaccurate. they havent gotten anywhere yet. its unusual to overturn, not to hear a case and make a decision

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And the NFLPA filed a countersuit to vacate the ruling. The judge yesterday said he has accepted the case to go to litigation that is far farther than most arbitration cases get. Most cases are dismissed before they judge even hears arguments or accepts the case.

TriplecHamp said:

I think the quote you're speaking to is being taken out of context. Its not a matter of him deciding on it as if he's going to vacate or affirm but rather speaking to the idea that he's a judicially active judge who will in fact vacate the award as opposed to simply affirming an arbitrators decision to not set a dangerous precedent.

Berman isn't paying any mind to the previous 66/68 cases which were affirmed but rather treating this case as its own.

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If this is the case, then I am wrong on this point. I guess I took it out of context although that is easy on Twitter.

billbog3484, there is a forum and a "practice squad" forum. The practice squad would be good for you!

Like the pool and the pond. The pond would be good for you.

Rob0729 said:

And the NFLPA filed a countersuit to vacate the ruling. The judge yesterday said he has accepted the case to go to litigation that is far farther than most arbitration cases get. Most cases are dismissed before they judge even hears arguments or accepts the case.

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can someone else just respond to this.i just cant deal

The NFL is either bluffing Brady or they're hoping that yesterday's hearing was just a judge 100% playing Devil's advocate because, if the Judge was playing it straight yesterday, the NFL has already lost the case.

Actually, I did not take McCann's quote out of context. This is from his article last night:

Brady and the NFLPA hope that Judge Berman finds the NFL’s case against Brady so devoid of evidence that the judge can’t bring himself to conclude that the NFL lawfully punished him. While there is always risk in predicting how a judge will rule based on a judge’s line of questioning, Judge Berman’s noticeable skepticism of the NFL’s alleged facts is clearly an encouraging sign for the Brady camp. Attorney Alan Milstein, who has litigated against the NFL and tried cases before Judge Berman, told SI.com Wednesday night: “After what we heard today, I think Judge Berman will absolutely vacate Brady's suspension.”

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http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/08/12/deflategate-federal-hearing-tom-brady-roger-goodell-patriots